++ The Brotherhood of Dust - A Thousand Sons Community ++

[Sonoftherubric21]

How do Chainsword + Pistol Tzaangors hold up against Boyz, anyone tried using them in significant numbers?

 

The extra shooting and extra CC attack seems like it ought to help them out.

 

Tzaangors are great this edition overall, but you need decent numbers.  Support them with a sorcerer, at 7 points each they are about perfect considering their statline is identical to an ork boy (coming in at 6 points) with one less attack, but an Invulnerable save, stack that with a babysitting Sorcerer (or Magnus) and you are sitting at a 5++ re-rolling 1's.   In many respects they are "discount assault marines" for damage output. 

 

If they just so happen to engage a character there is a very real chance they will beat him to death. Make this a point with Warp time to slink around opposing units....its rather hilarious. MSU may be preferable with Tzaangors but larger units hit alot harder in a melee and obviously last longer, its a toss up for MSU vs 20+ models but due to not having a "above a certain size; gain this bonus!" rule.....May as well do MSU. 

 

 

[Raven1]

http://s23.photobucket.com/user/Damosmy/media/rerolls.jpg.html

 

So the 8th edition sub forum is talking about this image and I wanted to bring the conversation over here because I think it strengthens re-rolls of 1 aura buff as opposed to re-rolls failed results. As the rule stats re-rolls for failed results are determined premodifier so you can make a roll that is not eligible for a re-rolls bit still fails due to modifiers.

 

While Lord of TS is rerolls on results of 1 and so wont be negated just because it was saved but still fails because of modifier. What do you guys think about that?

 

@sonoftherubric21

The list looks fun, I would definitely add the changeling so your units are harder to hit. As far as Tzaangors go maybe chainswords because Orks are likely to fail the 6+ but you can also shot the autopistols. So you have the same number of attacks but also attacks in the shooting phase from pistols.

[Prot]

 

I really shoudln;t be tempted to trya lis of just rubrics and Ahriman

 

My 1500; 

 

Magnus

2 Exalted Sorcerer HQ's

12 rubricae (reaper)

12 rubricae (reaper)

11 Rubricae (reaper) 

coming to 1466, play around with the remaining points. 

 

alternatively; drop down the rubricae so you have 100 extra points; third HQ is Changeling, use that as a buffer for Magnus to protect Magnus against the massed AT fire that will target him (at -1 to hit due to changelings locus of Transmog) 

 

hilarious list, Not necessarily "competitive" but in most settings its a ludicrously hard list to remove, with accurate reaper/bolter fire. 

 

Obviously magnus in 1500 is rough as its a small game for 8th.  better in 2k! 

 

 

I think that looks like a really fun list to try.

[Panzer]

I honestly don't see how it strengthens re-roll of 1s effects compared to re-roll failed results tho. ^^

[Raven1]

So a roll of 1 is always a fail which them is granted a re roll.

 

But with the new re roll rule if you need a 3+ but have a -1 modifier and you roll a 3 you fail with out the option to re roll.

 

If you roll say a 2, 3, 4 the two fails and allows a re roll the 3 is not allowed a reroll but still fails if it has a -1 modifier and only the 4 would actually hit.

 

I just think it makes a re roll of one a little better because you won't run into a roll that fails that isn't allowed a reroll. I do suppose that means it only comes into effect on a natural roll of 1.

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

 

I really shoudln;t be tempted to trya lis of just rubrics and Ahriman

 

My 1500; 

 

Magnus

2 Exalted Sorcerer HQ's

12 rubricae (reaper)

12 rubricae (reaper)

11 Rubricae (reaper) 

coming to 1466, play around with the remaining points. 

 

alternatively; drop down the rubricae so you have 100 extra points; third HQ is Changeling, use that as a buffer for Magnus to protect Magnus against the massed AT fire that will target him (at -1 to hit due to changelings locus of Transmog) 

 

hilarious list, Not necessarily "competitive" but in most settings its a ludicrously hard list to remove, with accurate reaper/bolter fire. 

 

Obviously magnus in 1500 is rough as its a small game for 8th.  better in 2k! 

 

 

I think that looks like a really fun list to try.

 

 

It helps that as of the moment Exalted Sorcerers really are just Chaos Lords with Psychic ability (and less gear/weapon options, but statwise you get the idea)  They arent scrubs in combat, and are at a very reasonable price point. 

 

Magnus is the crux of the list, and when engaged flys over and man-handles those that charge the dust bunnies, also his super-smite nails anything big and nasty. Basic shooting he doesn't care about, and the dust bunnies care little about.  and heavy weaponry against either is always partially wasted. I would give each Rubricae squad (possibly) 1-2 flamers a piece.  Or drop rubrics down for the Changeling who makes Magnus ludicrously hard to kill. 

[Sonoftherubric21]

One last added observation; Warp flame pistols....considering how long we stay in combat and how many shooting phases My rubrics have been near things...it almost always feels worth the 7 points, if it kills literally 1 model you have made its points back and nothing removes rubrics "quickly" 

[Panzer]

So a roll of 1 is always a fail which them is granted a re roll.

 

But with the new re roll rule if you need a 3+ but have a -1 modifier and you roll a 3 you fail with out the option to re roll.

 

If you roll say a 2, 3, 4 the two fails and allows a re roll the 3 is not allowed a reroll but still fails if it has a -1 modifier and only the 4 would actually hit.

 

I just think it makes a re roll of one a little better because you won't run into a roll that fails that isn't allowed a reroll. I do suppose that means it only comes into effect on a natural roll of 1.

Since it says that re-rolls apply for rolls before any modifier, the 2 wouldn't grant you any re-roll from a "Re-roll rolls of 1s" ability tho.

[Prot]

I've been using the inferno pistol on my one Rubric dude. The D6 in cc is great, it's only S3 though if I recall. But yea I think it's actually worth it... if I can stop perils'ing myself 5 times a game ;)

[Sonoftherubric21]

I've been using the inferno pistol on my one Rubric dude. The D6 in cc is great, it's only S3 though if I recall. But yea I think it's actually worth it... if I can stop perils'ing myself 5 times a game

 

Oh dear sweet jesus NO!!!  I periled twice (I have been saving CP SPECIFICALLY to stop that nonsense) and it HURTS. 

[Heliomanes]

Not sure if I like the warpflame pistol upgrade tbh. I can see the appeal, but I'm wary of making the aspiring sorcerers more expensive than they already are, now that they are likely to kill themselves on a regular basis (and I need my rerolls for my more expensive HQ units). The idea that it pays for itself with 1 kill is sadly a bit wrong, as most of the cost is included in the aspiring sorcerer itself (if not, the 1 point bolt pistol it comes with would be insanely cost effective). Still, if this loadout proves to be effective, then it opens up another way to play rubricae - minimum sized 5 man squads to get the highest amount of aspiring sorcs possible.

[Paladin777]

The cost of the asp. Sorc listed is without wargear so an asp sorc with a force staff and inferno bolt pistol would be 45. 30 for the sorc, 14 for the staff, and 1 for the pistol. Replacing the pistol with the hand flamer really only results in a 6 point additional cost.

 

Ultimately, whether it's worth it or not really comes down to your meta. If you play a lot of hordes of gribblies or boyz (or even assaulty marines or similar), then yes. If you play a lot of Tau and shooty eldar, then no.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Not sure if I like the warpflame pistol upgrade tbh. I can see the appeal, but I'm wary of making the aspiring sorcerers more expensive than they already are, now that they are likely to kill themselves on a regular basis (and I need my rerolls for my more expensive HQ units). The idea that it pays for itself with 1 kill is sadly a bit wrong, as most of the cost is included in the aspiring sorcerer itself (if not, the 1 point bolt pistol it comes with would be insanely cost effective). Still, if this loadout proves to be effective, then it opens up another way to play rubricae - minimum sized 5 man squads to get the highest amount of aspiring sorcs possible.

Negative; the Sorcerer may not, but the GUN needs 1 model dead to pay itself back. 

 

And that sorcerer *WILL* live to kill if its engaged with something.  Rarely ever do I find the Aspiring sorcerer to be a "tax" this edition, Str 6 / D3 damage -1 ap means far more then staves did last edition. 

 

I suppose to give context; I NEVER cast with the Rubrics or Scarab occult; Weak-smite is NOT worth the possible risk of a perils, barring something important being nearby and on its literal final wound I will never cast smite with them, Our troops are far to expensive to lose to our own shenanigans. 

 

 

The cost of the asp. Sorc listed is without wargear so an asp sorc with a force staff and inferno bolt pistol would be 45. 30 for the sorc, 14 for the staff, and 1 for the pistol. Replacing the pistol with the hand flamer really only results in a 6 point additional cost.

 

Ultimately, whether it's worth it or not really comes down to your meta. If you play a lot of hordes of gribblies or boyz (or even assaulty marines or similar), then yes. If you play a lot of Tau and shooty eldar, then no.

 

And you hit the nail on the head. I have far to many guard and ork players in my community (and assault marines.......) to not take at least a couple warp flamers, the one time I neglect it? my 14 man rubricae squad drowns in 50-60 boyz. 

[Prot]

Yes spam is an issue for me too. I have to make it as punishing as possible for someone to charge me/engage me in CC.

 

Honestly in my shooting phase if I can flame down a few dudes before CC fight phase even starts, I think that's an advantage that you can't quite put a tidy price tag on. I have found in CC I'm not doing too great. So in my turn any extra casualties are a good thing!

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

How are vindicators lookign in the new rules? My TS have a pair which have served me faithfully, but the removal of blasts has me worried for how they will function now.
In other news, a space wolf dread is now being stripped to be reborn anew as Thousand sons one.

[Paladin777]

Speaking of dreads, I have three of the old metal sarcophagus type with plasma cannons and close combat weapons of various types. I can't say I'm really thrilled with the new plasma cannon and I was thinking about refitting it to twin lascannons and possibly missile launchers instead of CCW's. Anyone have any ideas on how to convert that?

[Archaeinox]

Tokens help in the new edition! I'll show off my custom ones (punch-out printer with rounded clear covering)

 

[Prot]

The Planet of Sorcerers approves of those tokens! Very cool.

 

I used to make a lot of basic tokens, print them out and glue them to bases but those look very professional. Well done!

[Zodd1888]

Sold! Outstanding.

[Skerr]

Bad ass Arch!

[Sonoftherubric21]

Tactics question;  Tzaangors....2 units of 10, or one unit of 20?  

Seeing as we lack numbers they help and are fantastic for just a single measly point more then an Ork Boy, however they do not have the "+1 attack above a given size" rule, and as such I am curious if MSU isn't the better option, but with alternating combats that almost sounds like a bad idea from my table-time. 

I had a scenario in my last game where I charged Ahriman into the warboss, and Tzaangors into a blob of boyz, ahriman went first, soloed the warboss and then my ork opponent used Counter-assault (-2 CP) to go before my next charging unit (the tzaangors) and as such it ended up killing 7 of the 10 Tzaangors in that combat BEFORE they swung, on a turn they charged! 

This leads me to think that a Blob of 20 wouldn't go amiss, retain power through causalities and allow the Tzaangors to swing longer and stay on the table reasonably well. (its also easier to keep a blob of 20 within 6 of a sorcerer for the 5++ re roll-1's chicanery)

 

Thoughts? Opinions? Criticisms? 

[Schultzhoffen]

I'd expect 20 would be better for a unit with a low armour save. Maybe even 2 blobs of 20...or would that be overkill? I think that it could work in 2000 - 2250 point lists.

 

On that, I was half way through my Thousand Sons army before I heard that 8th was hitting.

 

I have a maulerfiend, rubrics, scarabs and Ahriman. Where to now? A las dread is looking good as are Tzaangors, but what else? How do I go about building a list till 2000 points?

 

Can Thousand Sons mix it in close combat, for example ( something I'm expecting to face a lot of - nasty combat units)?

[El_Dicko]

Glad to see Tzaangors looking so good! I've got ambitions to build a horde of them, at least two blobs of 20 , backed up by vindicators and spawn. Maybe use whfb ungors for cultists? Do you guys think it would be worth it to have extra chaff or better just to take as many Tzaangors as possible?

[Sonoftherubric21]

I'd expect 20 would be better for a unit with a low armour save. Maybe even 2 blobs of 20...or would that be overkill? I think that it could work in 2000 - 2250 point lists.

 

On that, I was half way through my Thousand Sons army before I heard that 8th was hitting.

 

I have a maulerfiend, rubrics, scarabs and Ahriman. Where to now? A las dread is looking good as are Tzaangors, but what else? How do I go about building a list till 2000 points?

 

Can Thousand Sons mix it in close combat, for example ( something I'm expecting to face a lot of - nasty combat units)?

 

You can never go wrong with Rubricae or Scarab Occult. How to mix and match them is up to you, I prefer a solid 2 squads or so of rubricae on the table in 1000-1500, at 2k I either bulk out one squad, or have 2 squads in rhinos, perhaps a third if points / tactics allow. 

 

As for tzaangors; I would say 20 is fine, though as with da' boy'z more is always better!  I would take 10-15 man cultist units with autoguns on a home-objective. 

[Paladin777]

How are the SOT's working out for you?