15 Shades of Grey, A new start.... with Primaris,

[Dantay VI]

I am not sure how thin it was, maybe not as thin as simmed milk, but then I have never compared it to milk. I got almost to the pint that the water and paint were separating out, as in i'd put my brush through it and the paint would not adhere to it  

 

Thats when I thicken it slightly. Its actually pretty good, because if you make a mistake, a quick wipe and gone. Plus when it goes on it looks so light, but it dries in quite opaque, its really hard to see.

 

I have no measuring system for what i do except I use a loaded brush

 

As for the Vallejo,I reckon its not mixed properly in the bottle & I heard rumours that this was one of the few downsides to vallejo paints (getting them and keeping them mixed). I am sure I have heard of guys putting small ball bearings in the pots to help mix it up more, but that is an unconfirmed rumour at this point.

 

Oh I meant to say that Vykryl and Creamywynch's models dont look metallic as far as I can see the washes dull it right down as they set matte..

Edited September 30, 2014 by dantay_xv

[Vykryl]

My models are a little metallic. More like dull lead than steel. I base in bolt gun metal with 2 nuln oil washes. I think Creamwynch uses 1 nuln oil wash and 2 agrax earthshade. Here's one of mine

[Dantay VI]

Ah, thanks Vykryl, I stand corrected. Looking good, you need to update your WIP blog though fella!

 

http://www.wobblymodelsyndrome.com/comic-332.html

 

Not Dork tower but funny none-the-less :D

Edited September 30, 2014 by dantay_xv

[Vykryl]

When I have more than 2 models to add I will

[Dantay VI]

If that was the case, I'd never get anything posted on here!! :p

 

Just did an hour of Body Pump, arms are shaking so much, I am not sure I'll be able to hold a paintbrush tonight

[FenrisWolf]

Hey Dantay, you wanted a post of some color ideas.  Here's what I have, these are quick slapdash jobs just to see colors. In a couple I need to thin the paint a little.

 

This is the Vallejo London Grey with a Nuln Oil wash.

 

This is Vallejo Dark Bluegrey with a Nuln Oil wash.

 

This is Vallejo's German grey with no wash.

 

All have a black undercoat.

 

I like a dark grey, but wonder what some of you think.  Sorry, two of them won't rotate...  Again, mostly want color opinions.

Edited September 30, 2014 by FenrisWolf

[Vykryl]

I like the German Grey out of those 3. I like the codex color but don't have the patience to highlight it. I'd seen Creamwynch's stuff in the winter paint challenge and liked it. Gave his method a try after giving up on the Fenris Grey, turned out good to me. His models are more grey than metallic with 3 washes in 2 shades.

[FenrisWolf]

@Vykryl, Yeah, I just wanted to avoid a metallic base color.  According to the calculator I found above, the exact shade I want is essentially Leadbelcher or Gunmetal grey.  But I want it non-metallic. Ah well.

[Dantay VI]

German grey (picture 3) looks quite close to shadow grey, the old SW colour, the new version is now a lot bluer. London grey (picture 1) is nice also, not a million miles from the standard mech grey I am using, it would be nice to get a comparison of the 2 side by side. The Vallejo blue/grey (picture 2) is actually pretty light.

 

I would use one of the other 2 and use the blue/grey as the highlight colour.

 

I have been a long-tmie admirer of a guy on dakkadfakka called Sigur and he has a step by step guide to how he paints his Space Wolves, here is the link, he is phenomenal and it is easy to follow

 

http://sigur.tabletopgeeks.com/new-step-by-step-painting-article/

Edited September 30, 2014 by dantay_xv

[FenrisWolf]

Also note that in addition to these being quick paint jobs, they were taken on the only camera I have at the moment - my iPhone 5s.  I had to use the flash to get them bright enough.

 

I was afraid the german grey too dark.  But it seems you all don't think so, which I am pleased to hear.  Should I do a full paint or maybe just a dry brush over the black undercoat?

 

@Dantay, I think the London Grey is closer to the old Adeptus Battlegrey than the Mechanicus.  I think it is a bit more of a blue grey than the others which are more green grey.  I was learning a lot about the colors (paying attention to the RGB values since I'm familiar with them from digital photography and teaching physics).  The Citadel Mechanicus grey has more green than blue (all are fairly low which gives it the overall grey hue).  The London Grey is almost the same overall brightness level, but has the blue elevated rather than the green (RGB values 56, 57, 63 on a 0-255 scale). According to the approximate conversions I got from Dakka, the hex code for Mechanicus grey is 7C8286, which translates to RGB values of 124, 130, 134.  This is actually supported in the encycolorpedia entry in the text at the top.  You're right that the Fang and Fenris Blue seem to be closer to the London Grey.  The German grey has RGB values 37, 43, 43, which makes it a very dark cyan.

 

Now that I've bored you with numerical details, I'll stop. Sorry, but this is the kind of stuff I love...

 

Anyone else like the german grey? The third pic?

Edited September 30, 2014 by FenrisWolf

[Dantay VI]

Did you see the link above, I just editted it in.

 

Why not do a drybrush over the black and see what you think when you compare the 2. I personally like to paint he mini, the wash , then drybrush up.

[FenrisWolf]

That link was quite good, Dantay! 

 

I like to do your method too of paint, then wash, then touch up and detail colors.  I try to make them simple.  I'm just worried that a wash on the german grey will push into Wolf Priest levels of black.  I do plan on painting their armor gloss black, by the way.

[Dantay VI]

Ah okay, no worries.

 

For the Wolf Priests, I paint black and then edge highlight the armour with grey, then put a black wash on, so the armour doesn't look too grey and to dull down the highlights.

 

Here is Wolf Guard test subject 001. The fleshweavers have dubbed him Jimbo

 

 

I did a quick 10-11 step process on painting him... But the black is black basecoat, then I think standard meexh, dawnstone and admn grey on the edge, then knocked back to black with nuln oil. It was a test run for seeing how a rally light Space Wolf would look

[FenrisWolf]

On the table they look much darker overall.  I know the flash brought out color I don't see much with my 44 year old eyes.  What do you think about using the German grey with a black wash as the wolf priest?  Or should I go straight black?

[Dantay VI]

Personally either go a much darker grey and then black wash or go black with an edge highlight or drybrush... Let all the accessories add the colour. I am assuming that you are going for the traditional black of the wolf priests.

 

I only ever got roud to painting 1 wolf priest and he is now primed black ready for a repaint. I'll put a pic up when I am at  the main pc later.

 

That way you can keep the grey you want for the marines and the WP stands out as a character

[FenrisWolf]

Maybe I'll do black armor and the German grey as a highlight color.  It should be subtle and provide a touch of blue grey to tie in with the remainder.  I think though I will do my vehicles in German grey.  i like dark and there are not as many shadows on the sides as there is on a figure.

[Dantay VI]

Sounds like a plan, besides washes on big flat slabs of model are hard to work with, very easy for it to get all patchy looking, so I'd aim just for the recesses with a wash.

 

I think for big slab sided vehicles some folks use oil washes, because it stays wet for much longer and you can push it around more.

 

Folks like Skeletoro use oils, so he'd be a good guy to chat to on that one

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276735-skeletoros-great-company-motivational-thread/

 

Oh my Wolf Priest, hiding off to the left. The pic is about 5 years old

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/dantay_xv/Space%20wolves%20in%20progress/07102010094.jpg

[FenrisWolf]

Yeah, my attempts at brush painting a Rhino were dismal, so one of the things I loved about the German Grey is Tamiya makes one in a spray can.  Since I have no airbrush, that's the current idea.  Maybe an airbrush for Christmas.

[Dantay VI]

Airbrush??? What techno-heresy is that???

 

Seriously, if you get an airbrush I will be so jealous... I'd love an airbrush for the vehicle pool I have on backlog just now...

 

Well, you could always go with VMA or dilute the german grey to spray through the airbrush, thus keeping your colours consistent...

 

Just before the White Dwarf went from monthly to weekly, they did a paint spaltter thing, showing how the one of the guys in the studio paints his tanks (Ultramarines) and he uses a 2" brush to put the paint on, then drybrushes... Need to see what brush he used for the drybrushes... For tanks, and Raptors, I think thin coats and several are the key to hide brush strokes... In what way was your attempt dismalon the rhino?

 

I looked at the brushes last night. I may have killed my detail brush, its now thinner than the fine detail brush, bordering in on the 0000 brush.... It has been a true workhorse and as much as gw gets maligned for brushes and stuff, it's been a blimmin good quality brush too!! It will receive a true viking burial when I get home....

 

No progress on the actual painting last night though, I was feeling very headachy all yesterday, so turned in early... Hopefully tonight, some progress on the Raptor, not going to get it finished before I go back onshore, but as the wife and son will be away, there shouldnt be too many distractions (fingers crossed). Hopefully the paining will be an adquate distraction while they are away.... It hit me last night that for all my joking around about getting man-time.... The house is going to be empty when I get back... Then I realised that I miss them..... So anyway, manly man stuff, stiff upper lip what what!!! Ther's a good chap.

 

My target is to et the upper body completely painted and most if noyt the lower hull done (2 tone paint job). If I get that done by end of play Saturday night, Sunday will see me working on the upper hull detailing ready for going home!! Thats the plan... Still at a loss, as to what to put on the upper hull  though...

[FenrisWolf]

Dantay, it is the sign of a true man when you can say you miss your wife and kids! 

 

As for the rhino, it is the brush strokes.  I tried it before I knew about thinning paint.  Stupid me, I thought if you bought paint, it is ready to use!

 

As for the London Grey that I thought didn't mix right, I shook the bejeezus out of it, and I'm getting consistent color. But I think in looking at the model in game condition lights (fluorescent way up high!), it is too light.  So with the German grey too dark, I think I've settled on Vallejo's Dark Bluegrey. Give it a Nuln oil wash and I'm happy with it.  It is subtly different that the old Adeptus Battlegrey and the new Mechanicus - those are a greenish grey.  I do notice the difference when I look at it carefully and I'm pretty happy with it.  I'll give a model a good paint job and see if I want to adjust further.  I just need to get my wash less blotchy - I guess it needs thinning too.  What do you use to thin your wash?  Just water or thinning medium?

[Dantay VI]

Yep you would expect it to be ready to use straight from the pot eh?

 

But you cant legislate for how long it has been on the shelf, and therefore how much of the thinning medium may have evaporated off etc... I find its fine for throwing it on , straight from the pot and its how I painted for years, hence my love of gw's hex pots, they were the best design ever. Thinning it, even by not much has 2 major benefits I have found. 1. Its a lot easier to control, the flow is better so you do not get a clump of paint at one end of a line and streaky lines following the brush and 2. the watered down paint goes on lighter than when it dries, so the contrast helps me see where the layers are going on. It then dries and goes darker, or at least that is how it looks to me :)

 

I still find even thinned down, using a brush I have gone from brush streaks to getting an almost textured effect, on my models.

 

For paint. Water works really well, it thins the paint and its free :) I only really started finding out about mediums when I signed up to www.miniwargaming.com and was using the quick tips section Kris Belleau is a great painter and the tutorials he does are quite easy to follow. I bought some Lahmian medium and it just transformed how I painted. It thins the paint out, it flows well and it takes much longer for it to dry out in the pallette. There are other mediums out there I am sure vallejo etc do them, but I have never had any experience of them. I just spent £8 on some medium from windsor & newton, but the jury is still out on whether its any good just now.

 

Water is good, medium is excellent!. The only thing I want to try now is a wet pallette to see if I can use it with the above techniques, or see if it is a superior pinting  device/ technique..

 

For washes... I dont thin it out, but i give the bottle a damned good shake. The blotchiness an be caused by to much wash, or trying to move it when its already begun drying. Some folks use oils on large surfaces, again I'd point you to the likes of Skeletoro..

 

Washes are like paints just much thnner, so maybe several thin coats...

[TheWolfGuard]

Just a thought, but does anyone else paint shade directly into cracks rather than washing, e.g as in GW space wolves tutorial? I find that to give a very nice look and finish without 'muddy'ing up the colours

[Dantay VI]

Hi TheWolfGuard. Welcome to the Aett. :)

 

On large flat panels, yes you are 100% right, into the recesses is how it should be used and it is how I would do this as it serves no purpose to waste wash that will just get covered with paint anyway.

 

The GW tutorials areactually pretty good, or at least the ones I have seen.

 

Shades can also be used in a whole number of other ways too. They were being thinned down and used as glazes before GW released the glazes for example and effectively, by washing the model you are glazing it. I have just never been technically enough minded to dilute the shade to make it a glaze.

 

I haven't been in a situation where I have had the shade muddy a colour, but if you get impatient and try to paint while the shade is still wet, then yes it can happen.

 

I also wouldn't advocate slathering a model in wash, either. But a nice coating of shade across the armour of a model acn help deepen the colour, and also leave enough of the basecoat showing through to enhance the natural highlights.

 

If we are talking about textured areas, then I will give a wash to tone down the recesses then layer or drybrush once the wash is dried to get a nice contrast

 

Other times for using the wash to coat an area, is for example, doing a skull or a red cloak which has many folds and high spots. Where you have used multiple layers or coats to blend the colors from dark to light, the wash can help to merge the colours together and make the progression from dark to light look much smoother.

 

I find it helps with black also, as I have a hard time, making it not grey looking, so I can paint black, highlight it and by giving it a coat of nuln oil shade, it darkens the greys and blends the highlights together, so the model looks black, rather than just dark grey.

 

You could probably do the same with glazes, but I have never used these.

 

The blothchiness could be from either letting the wash pool in areas you don't want it (using too much) By not shaking the bottle (I hav had instances of gettinglight and dark patches because a lot of pigment settled on the bottom of the bottle, or so I think) or by leaving it too late to start moving the wash on the model, so it has started to form a skin and it can leave ring marks. I have done this before when I put too much shade on a model and didnt notice for a while, then tried to wipe it away.... Like getting one of  those rings tea cup rings on your mother in laws best wooden table..

 

 

This is test subject Jimbo. I use him for tryins tuff out. You can see where I have done the highlighting on the red , the black andthe gold and the bone? I have used multiple layers and some stand out quite a bit

 

 

 

This is Jimbo after his final wash or glaze, I  am not good with technical terms, but notice how the black has become deeper especially on the shoulder pad, but you still have the highlight, same for the reds, it has helped tie them together. For the fingers, it has been thin enought that its tinted the recesses ble but left the highlighted silvers very faint but a unified colour, same for the gold and the bone....For me it makes the model have a more natural look

 

I really hope this hasn't come off as a rant or me trying to tell you how to paint. It isn't and I apologise if it has.

This is how I paint and the things I have picked up as I have been going along.... Trust me I am still learning things about paint every time I pick up a brush :)

[FenrisWolf]

Then that must be my problem.  I just put the wash on like a layer of paint and let it dry. But this now tells me how I did my frost axe that I have been wracking my brain over to try and remember!

[Dantay VI]

You mean the silvers then the blue?

 

It makes great "cold" steel, highlight up throught silvers and then a thin wash of ble for a nice blast of icy-ness! maybe a fine edge jighlight with mithil or runefang on the very edge again :)

 

You'll need to show us your axe!!