Community project : Let's found a Chapter ! (Phase 3 & 4)

[Stercus]

I like the idea of a large feline surrounded by stars. Might be a nuisance to paint though. Possibly we use a large cat as a chapter badge, and then surround it with the stars on banners and the like?

Good to see you back GreyCrow. Feel free to use any text I've written in whatever manner is most helpful. All ideas are for the use of the whole group.

[Tiberius Cato]

I'm personally a fan of the Jaguar/Panther with stars, but I'm afraid that a leaping one would look too much like the Puma logo :p

Makes me want that logo more, I love my Puma futbol shoes.

 

I believe we were proposing a rampant feline, the one on the coat of arms on the Spanish flag is the first that comes to mind.

[Gorkimedes]

Something like the Howling Griffons symbol but a feline instead of a bird?

[Tiberius Cato]

Yep, like that.

[Stercus]

There's a guy on heresy-online who has an astartes chapter (and I mean a whole chapter) called the lions rampant. Might be worth asking him how he did his badge if anyone is active on that forum?

[Quozzo]

We've all settled on the blue/grey colour scheme ? I feel it doesn't go overboard with the jaguar theme, keeps with the knightly feel and the Ultramarines' lineage. It's not too striking either for a quartered scheme and is pleasing to look at !

Would it possible to extend the deadline for that to Monday, as I dont have access to photoshop until the weekend and I've got something good planned, but I may just balls it up.

I'll try to compile the work you've done on Chapter beliefs and doctrine either tonight or tomorrow in the first post, unless Stercus and Quozzo agree that I use their well written text for the first post ! Let's continue discussing the Chapter heraldry and colour until next Monday 12:00 a.m.

Don't just use it, add to it, edit it, change it in ways we would never have imagined. That's what's so great about a community project.

Great idea to have the Primarch's as "Company deities" or protectors and I like what I see in Artic's list ! the only changes I would make is Khan as the patron of the 6th company (trained to entirely deploy as bikers based on the Codex Astartes) and Corax for the 7th (trained to be deployed as Landspeeders). It would make sense based on what each Primarch represents (speed for Khan, surprise for Corax because having 20 to 50 Landspeeders Deep Strike anywhere would probably surprise the guy).

Someone mentioned (cant remember who xD) that since the Knights Panthera are a codex chapter, then marines will constantly be changing company depending on what role they are learning. I suggested using Clans which any brother could be a member of, depending on his philosophy. The clans would revere one primarch over another and would invariably prefer different tactics on the field. Although, having the different primarch as patron saints (for lack of a better word) for each company could cause the marines to change their style, even if they are in similar squads to other companies. For example an assault marine in Corax's company might prefer to wait in ambush, whereas an assault marine in Sanguinius' company might prefer to rush the enemy head on. It doesn't solve the problem when a devastator in the 10th reserve company starts to train as an assault marine in the 9th reserve company though (if I got that right). Actually, that might be better for clans, as it would be possible to have devastators, assaults, librarians etc in all 9 clans instead of only having devastators as being in whatever the 10th company clan becomes.

[Black Cohort]

Quozzo the only marine in a company that has to be dedicated to the patron of that company is the captain. But I can see the chapter feeling that marines benifit from having time focused on honouring the different Primarchs and learning their ways and how the teachings of each Primarch applies to war.

[Stercus]

I think we may benefit from maybe having a chaplain that leads each Primarch cult? Each company captain could be sponsored by a particular cult, under the wing of the chaplain perhaps?

[Black Cohort]

I think we may benefit from maybe having a chaplain that leads each Primarch cult? Each company captain could be sponsored by a particular cult, under the wing of the chaplain perhaps?

What if instead of having company chaplain be fixed it is determined by reading signs and portents and determining which Primarch the company must be blessed by to achieve their mission? Then the chaplain of the appropriate Primarch is assigned to the force?

[Stercus]

Now that's why we do this as a group. I love that idea. Brings the Libby's into it too.

[Nomus Sardauk]

I think we may benefit from maybe having a chaplain that leads each Primarch cult? Each company captain could be sponsored by a particular cult, under the wing of the chaplain perhaps?

What if instead of having company chaplain be fixed it is determined by reading signs and portents and determining which Primarch the company must be blessed by to achieve their mission? Then the chaplain of the appropriate Primarch is assigned to the force?

I t might be best if the Chaplains are versed in the lore, rituals and traditions, etc of all the Primarchs rather than just one each, otherwise they'd be continually having to move from company to company as need, which could be a probelm given the often vast distances Astartes roam across the galaxy on their patrols and such.

That said I can see no reason there wouldn't be a sort of "head chaplain" for each pantheon cult, each the foremost expert in the Chapter on their chosen Primarch who tutors all the others in that part of their duties.

I imagine they'd each carry some kind of symbol of their Primarch, maybe Sanguinites carry a vial of blood on their person, Dornians wear black left gauntlets stylised after the IF logo, Ferrusians do the same but with both gauntlets in silver, Guillimens (c wut I did thar, hur hur ) carry a small copy of the Codex, Vulkanites carry a ceremonial Blacksmith's hammer, Coraxians wear black feathers on their person, Khanites have a red thunderbolt emblazoned on their armour, Lioncubs () carry a ceremonial shortsword wrapped in purity seals and Russites bear wolf-teeth charms and pelts.

Or of course ya'll can just tell me to shut up if I'm jabbering nonsense again.

EDIT: Oh, and of course the actual Head Chaplain wears loads of golden aquilas and thunderbolts on his armour as he's the one who leads the entire chapter's worship of the God-Emperor.

[Black Cohort]

I think we may benefit from maybe having a chaplain that leads each Primarch cult? Each company captain could be sponsored by a particular cult, under the wing of the chaplain perhaps?

What if instead of having company chaplain be fixed it is determined by reading signs and portents and determining which Primarch the company must be blessed by to achieve their mission? Then the chaplain of the appropriate Primarch is assigned to the force?

I t might be best if the Chaplains are versed in the lore, rituals and traditions, etc of all the Primarchs rather than just one each, otherwise they'd be continually having to move from company to company as need, which could be a probelm given the often vast distances Astartes roam across the galaxy on their patrols and such.

That said I can see no reason there wouldn't be a sort of "head chaplain" for each pantheon cult, each the foremost expert in the Chapter on their chosen Primarch who tutors all the others in that part of their duties.

I imagine they'd each carry some kind of symbol of their Primarch, maybe Sanguinites carry a vial of blood on their person, Dornians wear black left gauntlets stylised after the IF logo, Ferrusians do the same but with both gauntlets in silver, Guillimens (c wut I did thar, hur hur ) carry a small copy of the Codex, Vulkanites carry a ceremonial Blacksmith's hammer, Coraxians wear black feathers on their person, Khanites have a red thunderbolt emblazoned on their armour, Lioncubs () carry a ceremonial shortsword wrapped in purity seals and Russites bear wolf-teeth charms and pelts.

Or of course ya'll can just tell me to shut up if I'm jabbering nonsense again.

EDIT: Oh, and of course the actual Head Chaplain wears loads of golden aquilas and thunderbolts on his armour as he's the one who leads the entire chapter's worship of the God-Emperor.

Many good ideas in this post. But given that the chapter rarely operates outside the sector of it's homeworld and likely returns frequently to conduct "rituals" the idea of the head chaplain of a particular Primarch's cult going with a task force doesn't seem unreasonable to me. And it would be interesting if they occasionally refused to help someone because the signs and portents weren't right.

[Gorkimedes]

Now someone just needs to model the Knights Panthera chapter master with a bodyguard of nine Head-Chaplains and one blinged out Master of Faith.

[Anver Cassiel]

well if one chaplain is head of each primarch's cult (with the high chaplain being the emperor's champion) then other reclusiarchs would simply be versed in all primarchs until a position as cult leader is available. The question is, if each company is dedicated to a primarch, does that primarch's champion serve that company, and does the captain have to have any affiliation with that primarch? I could see each primarch's champion being attached to a company, leading the spiritual beliefs of that company, ie dorn's champion attached to the IX company, leading the company in spirituality and preaching the veneration of dorn specifically whilst the captain leads tactically and in battle.

 

Cassiel

[Black Cohort]

well if one chaplain is head of each primarch's cult (with the high chaplain being the emperor's champion) then other reclusiarchs would simply be versed in all primarchs until a position as cult leader is available. The question is, if each company is dedicated to a primarch, does that primarch's champion serve that company, and does the captain have to have any affiliation with that primarch? I could see each primarch's champion being attached to a company, leading the spiritual beliefs of that company, ie dorn's champion attached to the IX company, leading the company in spirituality and preaching the veneration of dorn specifically whilst the captain leads tactically and in battle.

 

Cassiel

I think instead of each company being devoted to a specific Primarch,we are going with every task force/ mission has its signs and portents read, then the task force is dedicated to the appropriate Primarch and the correct chaplain assigned. This also has the fun side effect of including stories where the knights Panthera refused aid to someone because "the portents weren't right" and the required chaplain was already away with a task force.

[Gorkimedes]

So something like,

 

1) 2nd company returns to home-world

 

2) Chapter command decides where they're going next.

 

3) Council of chaplains decides which primarch will bless the mission and who will accompany it.

 

?

[Anver Cassiel]

ahh okay then, that makes sense. Would there be more than one chaplain for each primarch? so that the chapter wasn't limited to carrying out only one mission in a primarchs name? and would we require a high number of chaplains/chaplains in training to maintain the faith across the chapter? My own homebrew BA successor uses chaplain initiates (like chaplain-lites haha) for smaller scale, single squad campaigns etc. spread throughout the chapter and assigned as regular members of each squad.

 

Cassiel

[Quozzo]

Quozzo the only marine in a company that has to be dedicated to the patron of that company is the captain. But I can see the chapter feeling that marines benifit from having time focused on honouring the different Primarchs and learning their ways and how the teachings of each Primarch applies to war.

 

I think instead of each company being devoted to a specific Primarch,we are going with every task force/ mission has its signs and portents read, then the task force is dedicated to the appropriate Primarch and the correct chaplain assigned./

So the chaplains are dedicated to a Primarch and the battle-brothers are able to pursue all the traditions and rituals regarding each Primarch, so when they are leaving in a strike force deemed to be of one particular Primarch then they are able to fulfill the required rituals for that Primarch. Some would prefer one over the other, some might prefer two and other may simply revere the strengths of each Primarch.

 

The thing is though that chaplains don't need to be assigned a company. So restricting a chaplain to one of the companies and Primarch doesn't make sense, especially as you said the required chaplain may already be on a mission. It would be best if there were chaplains who were dedicated to a Primarch, but each such chaplain is not limited to only one. There may be two or more chaplains dedicated to one Primarch, so it would be possible to have multiple strike forces using the same patron Primarch. It would prevent the whole Chapter needing to fight at more than company strength and would prevent the reserves companies needing to fight by themselves. It would also start a good story and some depth to the chapter if the last chaplain dedicated to a Primarch was killed in battle, with no one to replace him. The chapter could consider this a bad omen and refuse to fight battle where they divined the mission to be of the Primarch, but since none was available then simply couldn't fight.

 

If the mission is deemed to be of Dorn's aspect then those who revere Dorn and his ways would benefit from being on the mission, only to arrive and find they need to remove a heavily fortified position. I like it.

 

ahh okay then, that makes sense. Would there be more than one chaplain for each primarch? so that the chapter wasn't limited to carrying out only one mission in a primarchs name? and would we require a high number of chaplains/chaplains in training to maintain the faith across the chapter? My own homebrew BA successor uses chaplain initiates (like chaplain-lites haha) for smaller scale, single squad campaigns etc. spread throughout the chapter and assigned as regular members of each squad.

 

Cassiel

There's more than one chaplain for each Primarch, but conversely the last chaplain dedicated to that particular Primarch might have died, resulting in no one to fill the void.

[Quozzo]

I think we may benefit from maybe having a chaplain that leads each Primarch cult? Each company captain could be sponsored by a particular cult, under the wing of the chaplain perhaps?

What if instead of having company chaplain be fixed it is determined by reading signs and portents and determining which Primarch the company must be blessed by to achieve their mission? Then the chaplain of the appropriate Primarch is assigned to the force?

I t might be best if the Chaplains are versed in the lore, rituals and traditions, etc of all the Primarchs rather than just one each, otherwise they'd be continually having to move from company to company as need, which could be a probelm given the often vast distances Astartes roam across the galaxy on their patrols and such.

That said I can see no reason there wouldn't be a sort of "head chaplain" for each pantheon cult, each the foremost expert in the Chapter on their chosen Primarch who tutors all the others in that part of their duties.

I imagine they'd each carry some kind of symbol of their Primarch, maybe Sanguinites carry a vial of blood on their person, Dornians wear black left gauntlets stylised after the IF logo, Ferrusians do the same but with both gauntlets in silver, Guillimens (c wut I did thar, hur hur ) carry a small copy of the Codex, Vulkanites carry a ceremonial Blacksmith's hammer, Coraxians wear black feathers on their person, Khanites have a red thunderbolt emblazoned on their armour, Lioncubs () carry a ceremonial shortsword wrapped in purity seals and Russites bear wolf-teeth charms and pelts.

Or of course ya'll can just tell me to shut up if I'm jabbering nonsense again.

EDIT: Oh, and of course the actual Head Chaplain wears loads of golden aquilas and thunderbolts on his armour as he's the one who leads the entire chapter's worship of the God-Emperor.

Yes I like this also. The chaplains could be the leader of one, but versed in many. So when the High Chapain (who knows all the readitions) dies there is a replacement. Or we could go all Avatar-esque (the last airbender not the blue guys) and each chaplain of each Primarch takes it in turns to become the High Chaplain when their successor finally dies. Starting with a Lion High Chaplain, then a Khan High Chaplain, then Russ High Chaplain etc. until he cycle continues.

[Black Cohort]

I think we have moved away from companies being strictly tied to a single Primarch. But instead have chaplains assigned based on readings of signs and portents. I do in some ways like the idea of a rotation between high chaplains of the various Primarchs, though perhaps the order it rotates through isn't fixed but instead dependent on longer divinations. They could also internally track events/ time based on which Primarch is considered Ascendant at the time. So their records could include entries like the following.

 

4th year of the third ascencendancy of Russ, the 5th company reinforced by elements of the 7th, 9th and 10th is dispatched to the planet of Gregor's Fall under the blessing of Lord Dorn. There they do battle with WAAAGH Skullsmasher and return with the fell ork leader captive in the 6th year of the same.

 

I also think that we should keep the individual divinations done on individuals as they complete their time in the 10th company.

 

If it wasn't clear from what I have already written here, I feel like the Knights Panthera trust heavily in ritualized divination.

[Quozzo]

Yes I agree, but your ambiguous just why a particular chaplain is assaigned. If the chaplains follow a Primarch and the mission is deemed to be of Dorns blessing, then a chaplain well versed in the rituals of Dorn would be assaigned. That would make chaplains a very important role in the chapter, possibly even more so than captains.

[Black Cohort]

Yes I agree, but your ambiguous just why a particular chaplain is assaigned. If the chaplains follow a Primarch and the mission is deemed to be of Dorns blessing, then a chaplain well versed in the rituals of Dorn would be assaigned. That would make chaplains a very important role in the chapter, possibly even more so than captains.

I don't think it necessarily has to be a specific chaplain, but some Primarchs are probably less well represented within the chaplains than others. Guilliman and whatever Primarch is ascendant are probably always well represented, others like Dorn probably less so. In all likelihood which Primarchs are well represented varies over time.

[Quozzo]

I thought you said chaplains, not captains or companies, represent the 9 Primarchs, at least thats the impression I got. Then if a mission is divined as being blessed as by Dorn then a chaplain is chosen who reveres Dorn. But now you're saying any chaolain will do? I really like the idea that chaplains are leading the various cults within the chapter and the chapter will only go to war if one is available.

[Tiberius Cato]

We only truly need ten total chaplains, one for the Emperor and one for each primarch. Individual brothers may fill a similar role as a sort of demi-chaplain, each brother is versed in the chapter cult and can inspire victory in their brethren, but they're not capable of performing the rituals that the chaplains do.

 

We may be getting a bit too caught up in this aswell, all chaplains could be well versed in the cults of all primarchs and the Emperor to better serve the chapter. Easy as that.

 

On a related topic, do our chaplains wear black armour and skull helmets? Or do they wear different coloured armour and specific different helmets?

[Quozzo]

Im tempted to say they wear different colours, Sang = red, Lion = green, or even a shoulder or kneecap. But as they're codex compliant then im leaning towards the usual look.

 

We would need more than 10 chaplains though, because should one fall in battle it would need a replacement, instead of needing to train up an aspirant and delay some strikes... and even then there is no guarantee that he would follow the correct Primarch, or even become a chaplain.