IX Legion Information and Rumours

[Indefragable]

The Red Books are reasonably priced (for GW/FW) and can be bought digital. You want:

 

-Age of Darkness Rulebook (BRB)

-Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List there isn’t equiv of this to 40k, but basically think a Codex: Space Marines that every army in the game uses and so unless you play Solar Auxilia (IG analog) or Militia, Custodes, or AdMech, you need this book as well)

-Faction book*

 

*this gets complicated because for everyone that is not Blood Angels, White Scars, or Dark Angels, you can get by with the more comprehensive and cheaper Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Legions ** red book, while for BA or WS you have to get black book #8, Malevolence . DA will be featured in Black book #9, Crusade which will be coming out next.

 

Essentially, the Black Books have the narrative of the HH as well as the lore, exemplary battles, and rules for each Legion while the red books are game rules only. BA and WS have not yet been added to the red books since Black Book 8 just came out a year ago.

 

If you’re confused, you’re in the right place.

 

The red books are basically a chapter approved where they dumped rules in one place to try to make it easier, but haven’t been update with new info. And frankly the Black Books are some of the best products GW makes since the anecdotes and background lore is top notch.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Indefragable

[Blindhamster]

Malevolence is one of the worse black books though imo

[Spagunk]

Malevolence is one of the worse black books though imo

As far as fluff, I agree; comparatively. For units, rules and new stuff it's pretty good. The payarcana section is so fun and the rules for new consuls are cool.

 

Also, this consolidated/updated a lot of custodes so your probably going to want book 8 instead of book 7.

[m0nolith]

Malevolence is one of the worse black books though imo

As someone who’s gone though each and every one of the black books, I couldn’t disagree more.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

 

Malevolence is one of the worse black books though imo

As someone who’s gone though each and every one of the black books, I couldn’t disagree more.

Why?

[m0nolith]

 

 

Malevolence is one of the worse black books though imo

As someone who’s gone though each and every one of the black books, I couldn’t disagree more.

Why?

Because it was a well written and presented book.

It’s very much on par with others in the series and Anuj and Tony did a great job in making it.

Simple as that.

[Pathstrider]

I'm a big fan of Malevolence for the fluff - I really like the new spins/ideas on the Legions, particularly pre-crusade. The Blood Angels background is great.

 

I realise that's not a lot to go on from an expensive book, but I kind feel like that for all the black books - they're a luxury purchase in an already luxury hobby. So none of it is great value for money.

[Blindhamster]

 

 

 

Malevolence is one of the worse black books though imo

As someone who’s gone though each and every one of the black books, I couldn’t disagree more.

Why?

Because it was a well written and presented book.

It’s very much on par with others in the series and Anuj and Tony did a great job in making it.

Simple as that.

I felt like they tried to make new units for the sake of new units rather than focusing on some of the things we already specifically new existed.

 

The rules themselves are pretty tepid for many parts. Dawn breakers are decent for rules.

 

Raldoron was alright but not particularly special.

 

Sanguinius just feels lazy and wrong on a number of elements.

 

I really wasnt impressed by the lore presented there. Felt like it was taken to extremes beyond what we had previously seen for them and not in a good way.

 

The daemon stuff was cool and new I guess.

 

 

P.s. i have read and until recently owned them all too.

[Nova_Dew]

while some of Malevonce's fluff is great, some is just bad or contradictory, for instance since Angels of Death, Sang always wanted to terraform Baal back into a paradise for his people, Malevonce just goes "Leave them alone in hell, thinking im a god" where did that come from? the writers couldn't decide where the forgeworld enclave was, one paragraph it's on Baal itself and in another it's on one of the moons (both of which always had a native population).

 

There's also The Remebrancer lore box, ok it's a bit bland but it's then followed by two more lore boxes saying pretty much the same thing in a different way about the same Charactor Ishidur Ossuros (The Immortal Ninth and the Immortal Warlord).

 

Then there's the issue about how Sang felt about the pre-Sang Marines, there's several paragraphs about how how Sang wanted to "heal" them and win them over, going so far as to kneel before them, and mixing Terran and Baal marines in the companies to bring them into the fold, then in one of the colour plates and Crohne's fluff says that Sang just dumped them into lesser companies and treated them as not worth his respect so he didn't have to deal with their impact on his pride and public image.

 

Malevolence is a mess for the BA's lore wise, there's some fantastic fluff don't get me wrong, and both writers can write and very well too and i would like to thank them for the parts they got right, The Cult of the Reborn for instance is fantastic as well is The Charnel Feast (which also nicly shows some of  Dorn's nature too) and The Burning of Anahktor with Sang losing a measure of Control.

 

Personally i would have liked some of the Tribal nature of the Blood to be included in the Legion, we know the first Chapter (something we don't use even though we have a Chapter Master) was made up purly of Marines drawn from the Blood (who decorated their armour with obsidion-esque decorations such as blood drops) and that there's other Tribes (something that malevolence say's there isn't, every human on Baal Secundus is The Blood apparently)

[Indefragable]

Funny...reading all of the above I agree with it all!

 

I found a lot of the lore interesting and kind of cool...

 

...yet I also agree that it coulda/shoulda had more and connected to pre-existing tidbits more. Of all the Legion showcases in the Black Books, I feel the BA one sort of assumes the reader knows a bunch about them already and tries to provide other information. That’s the nice way of looking at it. The bad way is to throw around the “retcon” word, although I have a feeling they weren’t trying to replace anything.

 

I believe the writing team when they say it took them 4 versions before settling on Sanguinius’ published rules...but I have to agree with @BlindHamster that his rules don’t feel like his rules. He comes off as a powerful character (to put it mildly...he’s a Primarch), but think of how you imagine Sanguinius...then think of how that would or could be represented on the tabletop. Whatever his rules are that you are thinking, his official rules are NOT that. They just feel...off. It’s the Moonsilver Blade.... the :cuss is that?

 

I chalk it up to this book being the unfortunately half-written one that the new team had to salvage while under an already-sure eased release timeline (at the time).

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

while some of Malevonce's fluff is great, some is just bad or contradictory, for instance since Angels of Death, Sang always wanted to terraform Baal back into a paradise for his people, Malevonce just goes "Leave them alone in hell, thinking im a god" where did that come from? the writers couldn't decide where the forgeworld enclave was, one paragraph it's on Baal itself and in another it's on one of the moons (both of which always had a native population).

 

There's also The Remebrancer lore box, ok it's a bit bland but it's then followed by two more lore boxes saying pretty much the same thing in a different way about the same Charactor Ishidur Ossuros (The Immortal Ninth and the Immortal Warlord).

 

Then there's the issue about how Sang felt about the pre-Sang Marines, there's several paragraphs about how how Sang wanted to "heal" them and win them over, going so far as to kneel before them, and mixing Terran and Baal marines in the companies to bring them into the fold, then in one of the colour plates and Crohne's fluff says that Sang just dumped them into lesser companies and treated them as not worth his respect so he didn't have to deal with their impact on his pride and public image.

 

Malevolence is a mess for the BA's lore wise, there's some fantastic fluff don't get me wrong, and both writers can write and very well too and i would like to thank them for the parts they got right, The Cult of the Reborn for instance is fantastic as well is The Charnel Feast (which also nicly shows some of Dorn's nature too) and The Burning of Anahktor with Sang losing a measure of Control.

 

Personally i would have liked some of the Tribal nature of the Blood to be included in the Legion, we know the first Chapter (something we don't use even though we have a Chapter Master) was made up purly of Marines drawn from the Blood (who decorated their armour with obsidion-esque decorations such as blood drops) and that there's other Tribes (something that malevolence say's there isn't, every human on Baal Secundus is The Blood apparently)

Thank you for the clear and concise response.

[Nova_Dew]

Funny...reading all of the above I agree with it all!

 

I found a lot of the lore interesting and kind of cool...

 

...yet I also agree that it coulda/shoulda had more and connected to pre-existing tidbits more. Of all the Legion showcases in the Black Books, I feel the BA one sort of assumes the reader knows a bunch about them already and tries to provide other information. That’s the nice way of looking at it. The bad way is to throw around the “retcon” word, although I have a feeling they weren’t trying to replace anything.

 

I believe the writing team when they say it took them 4 versions before settling on Sanguinius’ published rules...but I have to agree with @BlindHamster that his rules don’t feel like his rules. He comes off as a powerful character (to put it mildly...he’s a Primarch), but think of how you imagine Sanguinius...then think of how that would or could be represented on the tabletop. Whatever his rules are that you are thinking, his official rules are NOT that. They just feel...off. It’s the Moonsilver Blade.... the is that?

 

I chalk it up to this book being the unfortunately half-written one that the new team had to salvage while under an already-sure eased release timeline (at the time).

I think they tried connecting the 30K Blood Angels too closely to the 40K Blood Angels, ie the noble monster on the edge of damnation and trying to escape it. I think it stems from trying to attract 40K BA players, hence the assumption that they will know a lot of the lore, and in making that connection the 30K Blood Angels are really just the 40K Blood Angles in reverse, they started as monsters then became hero's and in 40K they were hero's and are now slowly becoming monsters and with the new fluff becoming hero's again, but then Primaris death company so becoming monsters again  . we are something of a circular blood line it seems.

[Indefragable]

 

Funny...reading all of the above I agree with it all!

 

I found a lot of the lore interesting and kind of cool...

 

...yet I also agree that it coulda/shoulda had more and connected to pre-existing tidbits more. Of all the Legion showcases in the Black Books, I feel the BA one sort of assumes the reader knows a bunch about them already and tries to provide other information. That’s the nice way of looking at it. The bad way is to throw around the “retcon” word, although I have a feeling they weren’t trying to replace anything.

 

I believe the writing team when they say it took them 4 versions before settling on Sanguinius’ published rules...but I have to agree with @BlindHamster that his rules don’t feel like his rules. He comes off as a powerful character (to put it mildly...he’s a Primarch), but think of how you imagine Sanguinius...then think of how that would or could be represented on the tabletop. Whatever his rules are that you are thinking, his official rules are NOT that. They just feel...off. It’s the Moonsilver Blade.... the is that?

 

I chalk it up to this book being the unfortunately half-written one that the new team had to salvage while under an already-sure eased release timeline (at the time).

I think they tried connecting the 30K Blood Angels too closely to the 40K Blood Angels, ie the noble monster on the edge of damnation and trying to escape it. I think it stems from trying to attract 40K BA players, hence the assumption that they will know a lot of the lore, and in making that connection the 30K Blood Angels are really just the 40K Blood Angles in reverse, they started as monsters then became hero's and in 40K they were hero's and are now slowly becoming monsters and with the new fluff becoming hero's again, but then Primaris death company so becoming monsters again  . we are something of a circular blood line it seems.

 

Fair point.

 

To me, I think it's more of a new team picking up the pieces of a half-written volume and attempting to fill in the gaps of some pretty interesting ideas. Like when Christopher Tolkein or Jeffrey Shaara complete their father's works...there's an imbalance of them injecting their own ideas while also trying to work as their father did (highly subjective of course, and YMMV, but that's the best analogy I can come up with). All with a business deadline that had already been pushed back in a product line that had an increasingly rabid fanbase banging down the gates.

 

For what it's worth, in comparison, I thought the White Scars stuff was pretty darn good. Right balance of things that changed and things that stayed the same when Jaghatai Khan is reunited with his Legion, and a good bit of fun speculation as to what the V Legion may have been like if Khan's pod hadn't landed on a world with such a strong personality like Chogoris.

 

As I stated before, my personal feeling is that there's so much established lore that is outright not mentioned or glossed over that either the authors were completely unaware of it or assumed the reader already knew it and so many dots are connected.

 

Overall I think it's a net positive, however.

 

Just one dude's opinion.

[Nova_Dew]

 

 

Funny...reading all of the above I agree with it all!

 

I found a lot of the lore interesting and kind of cool...

 

...yet I also agree that it coulda/shoulda had more and connected to pre-existing tidbits more. Of all the Legion showcases in the Black Books, I feel the BA one sort of assumes the reader knows a bunch about them already and tries to provide other information. That’s the nice way of looking at it. The bad way is to throw around the “retcon” word, although I have a feeling they weren’t trying to replace anything.

 

I believe the writing team when they say it took them 4 versions before settling on Sanguinius’ published rules...but I have to agree with @BlindHamster that his rules don’t feel like his rules. He comes off as a powerful character (to put it mildly...he’s a Primarch), but think of how you imagine Sanguinius...then think of how that would or could be represented on the tabletop. Whatever his rules are that you are thinking, his official rules are NOT that. They just feel...off. It’s the Moonsilver Blade.... the is that?

 

I chalk it up to this book being the unfortunately half-written one that the new team had to salvage while under an already-sure eased release timeline (at the time).

I think they tried connecting the 30K Blood Angels too closely to the 40K Blood Angels, ie the noble monster on the edge of damnation and trying to escape it. I think it stems from trying to attract 40K BA players, hence the assumption that they will know a lot of the lore, and in making that connection the 30K Blood Angels are really just the 40K Blood Angles in reverse, they started as monsters then became hero's and in 40K they were hero's and are now slowly becoming monsters and with the new fluff becoming hero's again, but then Primaris death company so becoming monsters again  . we are something of a circular blood line it seems.

 

Fair point.

 

To me, I think it's more of a new team picking up the pieces of a half-written volume and attempting to fill in the gaps of some pretty interesting ideas. Like when Christopher Tolkein or Jeffrey Shaara complete their father's works...there's an imbalance of them injecting their own ideas while also trying to work as their father did (highly subjective of course, and YMMV, but that's the best analogy I can come up with). All with a business deadline that had already been pushed back in a product line that had an increasingly rabid fanbase banging down the gates.

 

For what it's worth, in comparison, I thought the White Scars stuff was pretty darn good. Right balance of things that changed and things that stayed the same when Jaghatai Khan is reunited with his Legion, and a good bit of fun speculation as to what the V Legion may have been like if Khan's pod hadn't landed on a world with such a strong personality like Chogoris.

 

As I stated before, my personal feeling is that there's so much established lore that is outright not mentioned or glossed over that either the authors were completely unaware of it or assumed the reader already knew it and so many dots are connected.

 

Overall I think it's a net positive, however.

 

Just one dude's opinion.

 

oh I agree compleatly. we know Bligh left a fair few notes, many that might be only passing thoughts or incomplete and the two new writers added their own idea's too them, and i think they had to use them for good or ill, because the fan base knew about the notes, and would cry havok if they didn't use them.

 

I havent read through the White Scars section yet, never really that interested in them tbh, though that alternative history of them is interesting enough to read their section now.

 

As for if it's a net positive, I'm on the shelf about it, but it's mostly positive there's some great work in there and it's obvious they worked hard on it. There's parts that im going with my own head canon with (mostly post Sang legion organization and some of the legions and Sang's personality, the pre-sang stuff is great, might have to write it down and post it sometime) and a few contradictions that i have chosen one version of over another, after all it's written in universe as a post Heresy historical document and is both relying on second and third hand sources and biased.

[Chronos1985]

 

It's crazy, because i'd love to get into HH. But man, how does it make sense to assume your customers can afford to play both 40k and 30k and not be broke as . Just rubs me the wrong way, when as a customer I'm already wanting to try the 30k system, and have money to spare. But $86, with no optional bits?. No. Just out of principle, I can't justify it.

I mean there is more than one way to play HH and you aren't going to get thrown out for using 40k models unless the group is full of terrible grogs.

 

I'm my area it's mostly 1k ZM so it's rarely over 5 units total. Then there is a version of centurion mode in the new books.

 

IMO your biggest entry-barrier is likely the books. Depending on how you roll, it may only end up 2 books at that (main rulebook + legion or tagmata etc.). The other books just add lots more fun stuff and special legion things.

 

Ymmv but it doesn't need to be too bad to enter, especially if you can get a hold of calth/prospero.

 

 

My problem (which I realize is a personal problem) is I tend to be an extreme purist. Meaning, I secretly dislike when people use 30k/40k play substitutes for models, and with 30k since i'm more leaning toward a hobbyist I tend to want to see my paint work and beautiful models on the board. The Calth box, wouldn't be enough for my taste, i'd want to go all out on my beloved Chapter. I realize I am creating that limitation seeing as I am a stick in the mud not wanting to break the fantasy of using proxies and wanting my battle to be a sight while also fun. So, that's where I suffer because 86 bucks for 5 units seems extreme.  

[Jolemai]

With Volkite Serpentas

 

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/The-Angels-Tears-With-Volkite-Serpentas-2019

 

With Grenade Launchers:

 

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/The-Angels-Tears-With-Grenade-Launchers-2019

 

Massacre softback

 

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Horus-Heresy-2-Massacre-SB-2019

 

The Angels Tears aren’t the best legion specific unit by any stretch, but they’ve grown on me a bit since they were first previewed.

[Xenith]

The tears look right with grenade launchers, the wide stances with pistols looked odd. Hopefully they release a set with assault cannons.

 

Just wondering what I could proxy the grenade launchers ones as in 40k. Assault marines with plasma guns I guess?

[Mostwanted]

The tears look right with grenade launchers, the wide stances with pistols looked odd. Hopefully they release a set with assault cannons.

 

Just wondering what I could proxy the grenade launchers ones as in 40k. Assault marines with plasma guns I guess?

I was thinking this as well. How about magnetize the jump packs so you could put normal backpacks on and call them missile launcher Devastators?

[Spagunk]

Still think they should have had the weapon options separate and not two separate units. Now the assault cannons will be yet another sku/unit. which stinks if you're like me and want to mis the squad.

 

 

That said, the jump packs are great and il like how the legs are up armored.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Spagunk

[Indefragable]

Those grenade launchers have the Radphage special rule, meaning enemy units that suffer an unsaved wound from them are -1T for the rest of the game. This stacks with Rad Grenades, meaning an enemy unit is T2 the turn it gets hit by both.

 

Bye bye multi wound mutha :cuss -ers. You’re getting Instant Death’ed by S4.

 

(Note: regular Destroyers in all Legions have a Missile launcher version of the same weapon, but the Angel’s Tears can take the GL on every dude but the Sgt, thus increasing likelihood of unsaved wounds, for a cost).

Edited January 18, 2020 by Indefragable

[Spagunk]

Those grenade launchers have the Radphage special rule, meaning enemy units that suffer an unsaved wound from them are -1T for the rest of the game. This stacks with Rad Grenades, meaning an enemy unit is T2 the turn it gets hit by both.

 

Bye bye multi wound mutha :cuss -ers. You’re getting Instant Death’ed by S4.

 

(Note: regular Destroyers in all Legions have a Missile launcher version of the same weapon, but the Angel’s Tears can take the GL on every dude but the Sgt, thus increasing likelihood of unsaved wounds, for a cost).

It's enemy models, not unit for radphage. I made that mistake once on accident. It is for multi wound models but since you apply wounds to already wounded models first, you're unlikely to reach the critical 3/2t majority to induce ID with common str6 weapons.

 

"A model that loses one or more wounds to an attack with this special rule and survives has its toughness reduced by -1 for the rest of battle"

Edited January 19, 2020 by Spagunk

[Indefragable]

Since 30k is 7th Ed ruleset more or less, doesn’t that mean you can spread wounds around units with multi wound models? Or did they FAQ that?

 

That was one of the abused methods of the past.

[Spagunk]

Since 30k is 7th Ed ruleset more or less, doesn’t that mean you can spread wounds around units with multi wound models? Or did they FAQ that?

 

That was one of the abused methods of the past.

A single closest model continues to test against one weapon pool until the pool is exhausted or the model dies before you move to the next model. so say you managed to wound 3 models with rad phage, the closest must save against the dice pool until it dies. So if you have a 3 wound model as closest, it can soak the entire wound pool. The only way it would work is if you skirt around and wound >50% of the unit once to force majority toughness down. An opponent won't give you that chance and will always keep the lower wound model as the closest since they want the guy gone thus you're never going to put the wounds you need to make it work. Edited January 20, 2020 by Spagunk

[Charlo]

Radphage is sadly a pretty useless rule all in all, it's only really fringe cases like a lone Primarch or a single Automata unit where it works. Maybe Daemons now too.

[Hintzy]

Does anybody have experience building the new Contemptor Jumponought yet? From pictures on the website and a few less than ideal Google images of parts it looks to me like the jump pack is a separate piece from the power plant. Does anybody know if the power plant looks normal without the jump pack assembled? For us 40k types that might mean we could have two unique Blood Angels Relic Contemptor models which would be neat, even without the jump/claw rules.