Castiel Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Yes, a big thank you to everyone who took time out of their visit and contributed to bringing those of us not at the weekender all of the information, gossip and pictures of all the new shiny models. You're the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 So how should they do the BAs/DAs? Roll them in with Chondax for the Scars in 'Horus Heresy Volume 8: Best of the Rest'? The point I've been trying to make is that tacking those two Legions onto the Shadow Crusade is a bad idea, and does a disservice to those Legions, tacking them onto events they were barely involved with. i (and khall sithis from battlebunnies) NEVER SAID that they should tacking DA/BA into the shadow crusade .... but i can see the 7th book including the Shadow Crusade (first chapter), Underground War (second chapter), Signus Prime (third chapter) and the Siege of Sarum (fourth chapter with DA vs Dark Mechanicum) (much like book three had istvaan V: hunt for corax, Paramar and Phall) Sorry but I disagree with that. Signus is the defining moment in the history of the Blood Angels. It's effectively the birth of the Black Rage and that's where all hell breaks loose. It's been in the fluff for a long time and there's a lot of potential in there. Could it be tied in with the Daemonic Legions that's likely to feature in Shadow Crusade? There's an argument for it. But at the absolute most, you're looking at BA DA and WS in the same book and even then it would be a massive volume considering there's 2 of the "Big 4" included Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Considering atm they tend to do 4 legions per book, I think you should look at some sort of arrangement like Conquest, where four legions distinctly set apart in separate events where put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 So how should they do the BAs/DAs? Roll them in with Chondax for the Scars in 'Horus Heresy Volume 8: Best of the Rest'? The point I've been trying to make is that tacking those two Legions onto the Shadow Crusade is a bad idea, and does a disservice to those Legions, tacking them onto events they were barely involved with. i (and khall sithis from battlebunnies) NEVER SAID that they should tacking DA/BA into the shadow crusade .... but i can see the 7th book including the Shadow Crusade (first chapter), Underground War (second chapter), Signus Prime (third chapter) and the Siege of Sarum (fourth chapter with DA vs Dark Mechanicum) (much like book three had istvaan V: hunt for corax, Paramar and Phall) Sorry but I disagree with that. Signus is the defining moment in the history of the Blood Angels. It's effectively the birth of the Black Rage and that's where all hell breaks loose. It's been in the fluff for a long time and there's a lot of potential in there. Could it be tied in with the Daemonic Legions that's likely to feature in Shadow Crusade? There's an argument for it. But at the absolute most, you're looking at BA DA and WS in the same book and even then it would be a massive volume considering there's 2 of the "Big 4" included Gotta agree with this. What matters is not the relevance of the event to the Heresy, but the relevancy to the Legion. And that puts Signus and Thramas on equal footing with the Isstvans, Calth and Prospero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 So how should they do the BAs/DAs? Roll them in with Chondax for the Scars in 'Horus Heresy Volume 8: Best of the Rest'? The point I've been trying to make is that tacking those two Legions onto the Shadow Crusade is a bad idea, and does a disservice to those Legions, tacking them onto events they were barely involved with.i (and khall sithis from battlebunnies) NEVER SAID that they should tacking DA/BA into the shadow crusade .... but i can see the 7th book including the Shadow Crusade (first chapter), Underground War (second chapter), Signus Prime (third chapter) and the Siege of Sarum (fourth chapter with DA vs Dark Mechanicum) (much like book three had istvaan V: hunt for corax, Paramar and Phall) Sorry but I disagree with that. Signus is the defining moment in the history of the Blood Angels. It's effectively the birth of the Black Rage and that's where all hell breaks loose. It's been in the fluff for a long time and there's a lot of potential in there. Could it be tied in with the Daemonic Legions that's likely to feature in Shadow Crusade? There's an argument for it. But at the absolute most, you're looking at BA DA and WS in the same book and even then it would be a massive volume considering there's 2 of the "Big 4" included Gotta agree with this. What matters is not the relevance of the event to the Heresy, but the relevancy to the Legion. And that puts Signus and Thramas on equal footing with the Isstvans, Calth and Prospero. I am mixed on this. While I agree that Signus and Thramas were extremely important to the development of those legions, I am uncertain if that logic of "legion relevance over Horus Heresy relevance" will hold true given the format that the HH books are written: History Books. So while I want to agree, given the format, I can see Signus not getting quite the same treatment that the Thramas crusade would get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 See, I look at it a bit differently. These are first and foremost Legion books, with the 'history books' aspect being that fact's dressing. That said, I would say that Signus is of far greater significance to the Legion(s) involved than Thramas. Signus I would put on par with Calth. Thramas I would put on par with Chondax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Primarchs going 1-on-1 Twice I might add (if you're referring to the Lion vs. the Night Haunter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 See, I look at it a bit differently. These are first and foremost Legion books, with the 'history books' aspect being that fact's dressing. That said, I would say that Signus is of far greater significance to the Legion(s) involved than Thramas. Signus I would put on par with Calth. Thramas I would put on par with Chondax. Lol I feel like the DAs are being equally obscure as the White Scars :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I don't mean to say the Legions are equal, only that the events' relevancy to those Legions are more equal. The Thramas Crusade is not as relevant to the First Legion, like, say, Prospero is to the Wolves and Thousand Sons. Caliban would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Conn Cormac: Remember, Thramas saw the VIII go from being a single mass with several splinter fleets to six large mass fleets with dozens if not hundreds of splinter fleets. It might not be the soul-searching odyssey of Signus, but it still significantly changed a Legion and kept the Dark Angels from being at large for three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 It technically can be seen as the "splintering" of the legion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 True, Kol, it might have more relevance to the Night Lords, and it was relevant to the Heresy, but I wouldn't say it is as relevant to the Dark Angels as any other aspect of the Heresy for that Legion, except for Caliban, which is their most relevant bit. I'd actually say their tardiness to the Siege was more relevant to them than Thramas. I'm not trying to denigrate the crusade or the Night Lords' efforts, I just don't feel it compares to the other events that showcased, or will showcase, Legions, as far as it being their defining moment goes. Likewise, I wouldn't see the Thramas Crusade being as relevant to the Night Lords as the Shadow Crusade was to the Word Bearers. All that said, the Thramas Crusade isn't all that fleshed out. In fact, all we really know is the gist of the Crusade and how it concluded. There's always the possibility that Forge World will provide something new to the Thramas Crusade that will increase its relevancy to the Dark Angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Here's an idea with the new units: Take the new Centurion pravius with a Castellax bodyguard. Now run the pavaise Deredeo dread behind them to give the Castellax unit a 4++ If you have an IHs one with a refractor field and a cyber familiar, then you can put him out front and have a 2+/3++ T7 majority with -1 S to shooting weapons. Watch. Him. Never. Die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Here's an idea with the new units: Take the new Centurion pravius with a Castellax bodyguard. Now run the pavaise Deredeo dread behind them to give the Castellax unit a 4++ If you have an IHs one with a refractor field and a cyber familiar, then you can put him out front and have a 2+/3++ T7 majority with -1 S to shooting weapons. Watch. Him. Never. Die. You are an evil evil man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Here's an idea with the new units: Take the new Centurion pravius with a Castellax bodyguard. Now run the pavaise Deredeo dread behind them to give the Castellax unit a 4++ If you have an IHs one with a refractor field and a cyber familiar, then you can put him out front and have a 2+/3++ T7 majority with -1 S to shooting weapons. Watch. Him. Never. Die. You are an evil evil man Mandark laugh: "Ah ha ha ah ha ha ha ha" :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Depthcharge, there is a special spot in Tzeentch's City, just for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Depthcharge, there is a special spot in Tzeentch's City, just for you. Just as planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saphrael Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Conn Cormac: Remember, Thramas saw the VIII go from being a single mass with several splinter fleets to six large mass fleets with dozens if not hundreds of splinter fleets. It might not be the soul-searching odyssey of Signus, but it still significantly changed a Legion and kept the Dark Angels from being at large for three years. Haha, I swear Kol, your posts about the Night Lords are as predictably legion-biased as fire golem's views on how many FW HH books the Ultramarines should have be about them. There's always the possibility that Forge World will provide something new to the Thramas Crusade that will increase its relevancy to the Dark Angels. Couldn't agree more. So far Thramas is utterly underwhelming as a defining moment for the DA (less so for the NL, who were splintered after their defeat). Now that is because we've seen so little of Thramas and FW might flesh it out, but I'd rather they give the DA something new and full of pathos the way Phall is for the IF/IW or the Prospero is for the TS/SW. It would also be nice for the DA to contribute to the Heresy story in a meaningful way, while showing off their unique personality, but that's just my bias talking. I'm just desperate to get some defining plot moments that are better than what we've had so far: the idiotic deus ex machina warp engine, giving away the Diamat siege engines, overreaction at Nemiel, escape of the Haunter from the Invincible Reason onto Ultramar (and inevitable escape of Sevatar) and consistently unimpressive fight scenes (Prince of Crows excempted, but that was only enabled by that goddamned warp engine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Predictable? If by predictable you mean I do my best to present the facts, then yes. If by predictable you mean I try to color it up to make the Night Lords look pretty, then you obviously haven't read that many of my posts on the Night Lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Actually, I'm becoming inclined in favor of team Thramas, because it means the NL will feature heavily and maybe get the Atramentar as a result. Would love us dedicated Terminators and extra screen time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saphrael Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I meant the latter because you predictably colour the 'facts' to favour the Night Lords in just about every one of your posts about them. Now, given this is the internet and text is a great medium for turning 'light hearted digs' into 'vicious personal attacks', I want to be clear I'm not having a go at you, just amusedly pointing out what I perceive as consistent bias, bias I myself am acutely aware of because of my bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I meant the latter because you predictably colour the 'facts' to favour the Night Lords in just about every one of your posts about them. Now, given this is the internet and text is a great medium for turning 'light hearted digs' into 'vicious personal attacks', I want to be clear I'm not having a go at you, just amusedly pointing out what I perceive as consistent bias. Lol just throw him a bone, we shattered his legion anyway ;) I don't think he was that biased, Kol is generally very levelheaded and equitable. You can, however, make fun of him for not painting and posting models though :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Predictable? If by predictable you mean I do my best to present the facts, then yes. If by predictable you mean I try to color it up to make the Night Lords look pretty, then you obviously haven't read that many of my posts on the Night Lords. Well, you make it sound like the NL were outmaneuvring the Dark Angels (striking at the DA, weakening their defences, disappearing before the DA could react, etc.) ...when in fact the two were stalemating and damaging each other. The NL and DA kept each other busy, chipping away at each other. Neither side was winning tactically or strategically until the DA obtained xenos technology and stomped the crap out of the NL...and of course the Lion pretty much would've killed Curze had Sevatar not brought Curze back to the light so to speak. That's pretty much how the Thramas Crusade went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saphrael Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Lol just throw him a bone, we shattered his legion anyway Only through the unconscionable use of poorly written/conceived xenos technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Lol just throw him a bone, we shattered his legion anyway ;) Only through the unconscionable use of poorly written/conceived xenos technology. True, and while I don't want to blame ADB (God help me) but he did decide to use the gadget that Gav introduced instead of ignoring it. Why the Lion never used the McGuffin jump device to hop to Terra, we will never know...;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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