CommodusXIII Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I decided to review the WD rules one more time before assembling my models to ensure that I maintain WYSIWYG - apet peeve of mine. I found something that I want to confirm with the group. For the Ranger/Vanguard Alphas, the rules say that they can take weapons from the armory. However, it does not say that they replace their standard weapons if they do so - their graviton rifle/rad carbine, respectively. Do they keep their standard weapon as well? In the Vanguard / Ranger entry (in the Codex, at least), it says 'replace'. Finally got my hands on the Codex and double-checked. It does say 'replace' for special weapons, but for the Alphas it only says: may take items from the Ranged Weapons, Melee Weapons, Special Issue Wargear and Relics of Mars lists. It doesn't say that these items replace the Graviton Rifles/Rad Carbines that they have by default. So, by my interpretation, Alphas would have their original ranged weapon and a pistol if you chose to purchase one. Just a little bit more firepower at range, but every shot counts! EDIT: By "a little more firepower", I mean that the Alpha could fire the longarm at range and switch to the pistol when closer to a target unit. Not that it could fire both the same turn. For example, my Vanguard Alpha with Phosphoenix wouldn't be completely worthless outside of that pistol's 6" range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 That's awesome! Not having to lose the Galvanic Rifle is absolute gold for the Alpha, since it's such a great weapon. Interestingly, you could give an Alpha a pistol from the Ranged Weapons list and the Phosphoenix from the Relics of Mars list, and have a gunslinger Alpha! Not sure it's good, but it's styling . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zembar Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I decided to review the WD rules one more time before assembling my models to ensure that I maintain WYSIWYG - apet peeve of mine. I found something that I want to confirm with the group. For the Ranger/Vanguard Alphas, the rules say that they can take weapons from the armory. However, it does not say that they replace their standard weapons if they do so - their graviton rifle/rad carbine, respectively. Do they keep their standard weapon as well? In the Vanguard / Ranger entry (in the Codex, at least), it says 'replace'. Finally got my hands on the Codex and double-checked. It does say 'replace' for special weapons, but for the Alphas it only says: may take items from the Ranged Weapons, Melee Weapons, Special Issue Wargear and Relics of Mars lists. It doesn't say that these items replace the Graviton Rifles/Rad Carbines that they have by default. So, by my interpretation, Alphas would have their original ranged weapon and a pistol if you chose to purchase one. Just a little bit more firepower at range, but every shot counts! EDIT: By "a little more firepower", I mean that the Alpha could fire the longarm at range and switch to the pistol when closer to a target unit. Not that it could fire both the same turn. For example, my Vanguard Alpha with Phosphoenix wouldn't be completely worthless outside of that pistol's 6" range. The "replace" wording is in the ranged weapon list itself. It's the same in other codices as well. Going by your interpretation, I'd have a couple of GK terminators with a sword, a halberd, a storm bolter and a psycannon. Each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 So you could have an Alpha with a rifle, two pistols and a close combat weapon of your choice... For example, a Ranger Alpha with a Graviton Rifle, an Arc Pistol, the Phosphoenix and an Arc Maul - if you want to pay for all of that. Very interesting possibilities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I decided to review the WD rules one more time before assembling my models to ensure that I maintain WYSIWYG - apet peeve of mine. I found something that I want to confirm with the group. For the Ranger/Vanguard Alphas, the rules say that they can take weapons from the armory. However, it does not say that they replace their standard weapons if they do so - their graviton rifle/rad carbine, respectively. Do they keep their standard weapon as well? In the Vanguard / Ranger entry (in the Codex, at least), it says 'replace'. Finally got my hands on the Codex and double-checked. It does say 'replace' for special weapons, but for the Alphas it only says: may take items from the Ranged Weapons, Melee Weapons, Special Issue Wargear and Relics of Mars lists. It doesn't say that these items replace the Graviton Rifles/Rad Carbines that they have by default. So, by my interpretation, Alphas would have their original ranged weapon and a pistol if you chose to purchase one. Just a little bit more firepower at range, but every shot counts! EDIT: By "a little more firepower", I mean that the Alpha could fire the longarm at range and switch to the pistol when closer to a target unit. Not that it could fire both the same turn. For example, my Vanguard Alpha with Phosphoenix wouldn't be completely worthless outside of that pistol's 6" range. The "replace" wording is in the ranged weapon list itself. It's the same in other codices as well. Going by your interpretation, I'd have a couple of GK terminators with a sword, a halberd, a storm bolter and a psycannon. Each. Ah, I was looking in the wrong place. And yes, if the GK terminator or wargear section wording didn't say replace anywhere then that would be the case. Since it does, it's not. http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/gambit233/toomanygunsCustom.jpg The possibility of a gunslinger Alpha is still very intriguing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zembar Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 It would be. But then again, If we were to ignore the list heading, it also says "take items" and doesn't specify a max, so why not take 200 radium pistols on the alpha and really have a go at it. Would take some time to glue them all on, though. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I wouldn't have an issue with that - however, even with the Gunslinger rule, it could only fire two of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 The ranged weapons list says "a model may replace its ranged weapon with one of..." and as alphas only have one ranged weapon to replace they can't acquire two pistols. The melee weapons list says "a model may take one of..." so you can have an alpha with a rifle/carbine and a melee weapon, but you can't have two melee weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 There are no such restrictions on the Relics of Mars - the Phospoenix for two pistols and/or the Phase Taser for two melee weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zembar Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 There are no such restrictions on the Relics of Mars - the Phospoenix for two pistols and/or the Phase Taser for two melee weapons. ... Unless you look at the list, see the footnote numbers, and read the footnotes saying "Replaces the model's ranged weapon. May not be taken by a Ruststalker Princeps." and "Replaces the model's melee weapon (if it has one).", respectively. Sorry, but those cheese holes are covered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Double damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Well crumbs. Good catch though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 the worst part is that the main character in skitarius dual wields arc pistols. it's rubbing it in! Anyways, from a fluff standpoint I may like rangers more than vanguard. I dunno, maybe it's just the whole severe radiation thing the vanguard has that kinda makes me like the rangers more. Plus emperor damn those rifles are sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 The Galvanic Rifles are really gorgeous painted up with the wooden casing and a bit of gold/bronze details. It's important to really practice and decide on the glow effect early, though, because that's what will stand out on the model and really draw the eye. How is the Skitarius novel, by the way? Worth a read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I'm thinking of doing the glow on my weapons orange, since if I did them blue it may mesh to much with the Blue robes I'm planning to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 From the free extract the app gave me; skitarius is fairly good! as for glow, I didn't even think about that yet. maybe a nice lavander color... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordo Machinum Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 the worst part is that the main character in skitarius dual wields arc pistols. it's rubbing it in! Dual arc pistols... howabout the dual dual arc mauls! It's good to be the Alpha Primus! At least in a novel. The audio book is pretty good to. I've been reading and listening. Been trying to keep a list of all the characters' names etc. Hmm, maybe I'll post a thread for Skitarius if no one else has yet. [edit: I just did.] Sorry for drfting off topic. As for the glow, lavender sounds like an interesting choice. Sort of blue energy and going red for too hot combined. Of course, orange is right for that as well. I agree green is too necrontyr. Yellow, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Yup, no green. If you're going blue, a nice contrasting color would be orange or yellow. It's probably blasphemy, but I find that P3 inks (as horrid as they generally are) make for AMAZING glow effects! I'm using the P3 Blue Ink, and it's giving me results I definitely do not deserve. It's even nice for cleanup when I botch the highlight layers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 Okay played a huge proxy game today with my guys.... They are squishy as hell and slow. Turns out if you don't actually scout move foward you are out of position for almost anything (I was going second and I stole initiative... bad choice) but I also had bad rolls and my opponent couldn't fail one cover save on a heavy flamer dread, so it was a strange game. it was close until a storm talon came on.... Yea, completely squishy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawtooth Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Any thoughts on giving a Vanguard Alpha the Pater Radium? I admit it's my favorite relic, but I'm not sure how good it actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithrilForge Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Okay played a huge proxy game today with my guys.... They are squishy as hell and slow. Turns out if you don't actually scout move foward you are out of position for almost anything (I was going second and I stole initiative... bad choice) but I also had bad rolls and my opponent couldn't fail one cover save on a heavy flamer dread, so it was a strange game. it was close until a storm talon came on.... Yea, completely squishy. Can i ask what your force consisted of? and your deployment strategy?...and what were your losses due to Mainly?.... heck...just give us a ++Full Data upload++ of the battle please so i can collate data for the tactics topic i created... Mithril Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 It's true though, Skitarii are going to be "slow" by comparison to current 7th edition codices. If you think about it, everything nowadays has 12" moves, Flyer transports, Assault Transports, etc. While Skitarii have lots of Relentless and Dunestrider, this still limits their movement phase simply by the lack of transports, and Scout can only do so much. Really starting to despair of running these guys solo-codex; gonna have to break out the BA allies soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 Unbound for me, probably. Just want the transports with no strings. the biggest threat from turn 1 onwards was a damnable ironclad dread with two heavy flamers. that thing is just murder for the expensive and squishy skitarii! he literally wiped out about 3/4ths of my plasma warlord squad in one shot. some assualt marines also killed another vanguard squad after an unexpected turn 1 charge (dang ultramarine CT >.< ) Really the main things that killed me was bad, bad dice rolls. couldn't make a 4+ save on those guys that day, and I was confused because I pretty much had everything proxied for my marines. I'll upload the list later as I have stuff to do, so bear with me please =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Ommadon Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Yeah the lack of Transports is a bummer, but this army is still in its infancy and as time goes on we will see more new units. I still believe that Skitarii can still be a viable Primary Detachment force. I'm playing an 1850 game tomorrow (my list is posted on the Mechanicus army lists page please visit and comment its entitled 1850 with Knight Paladin). Now I'm playing an almost all Skitarii force except for 1 Knight Paladin. My basic strategy is that I will have the Paladin on one side and my Dunewalkers on the other in hopes to funnel my opponent into my Rangers and Vanguard line of fire while my Striders and Sicarians run around cleaning up and causing chaos! I'm not sure how it will go I will report after! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zembar Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Okay, i still can't decide whether my 10-man arc rifle squad should be Rangers or Vanguards. There are good cases for both, but the only reason I'm currently leaning toward rangers is because I think they look cooler. I guess that's as good a reason as any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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