Starting out: Rangers or Vanguard?

[Vel'Cona]

Hmm, the problem with the Arc Rifle is it's really best at 12" range to get 2 shots. Since the Rangers don't want to be anywhere near that, Vanguard will get the job done just fine. On the other hand, if you're trying to kite the 30" range on the Galvanic Rifles, even the 24" range of the Arc Rifle will still be a huge problem. Since the Arc Rifles will be nearly universally targeting armor, the other guns in the squad will generally be irrelevant, so I think that's another bonus for going for the Vanguard; since you don't care what they're using for standard guns, you can save points with them. On the other other hand, Rangers get MTC (which I think is more useful than Rad-Saturation in general practice).

So yeah, I'm torn too. I'm leaning toward Rangers for the coolness factor, as well, but I don't think there's a wrong choice here.

[Marshal Ommadon]

What about the odd Arc Rifle in a Ranger squad?  My Ranger squad looks thusly:

 

10x Rangers

          2x Transuranic Arquebus

          1x Arc Rifle

          1x Omniscope

     Alpha with a Taser Goad, Arc Pistol, and a Refractor Field

 

Just for grins and giggles here is my Vanguard squad:

 

10x Vanguard

          2x Plasma Calivers

          1x Arc Rifle

          1x Omniscope

     Alpha with a Taser Goad, Arc Pistol, and a Refractor Field

[munocat]

I solved my vehicle problem by ally with inquisition, the chimera is better than the AM one , seeing 5 models can shoot from it, it is 60pts with psyammo so heavy bolters on turret and hull, for 6 strength 6 shots. The henchman tax is 12 pts, 3 guys, can objective sit.

 

Also putting rusttackers in a landraider.

 

One inquisitor, with servo skulls is 29pts. Servo skull are used to shut down your opponents scout moves.

 

I am seeing that TA units will be the key to killing elder wk's, especially if there is an pyshic inquisitor with perfect timing.

[Kilofix]

Also, since their min size is 5, you could also put them in FW IG Centaurs (Fast, Open Topped).

[Tiger9gamer]

Not to burst bubbles but don't you need to have the unit that takes the transport to be the only unit that starts in the transport? Like you buy a Space marine tactical rhino and you can't but another squad's scouts inside.

[munocat]

Not to burst bubbles but don't you need to have the unit that takes the transport to be the only unit that starts in the transport? Like you buy a Space marine tactical rhino and you can't but another squad's scouts inside.

Yes you do, because dedicated transports have to start with that unit that purchased them, or be empty when they come in/deployed, this means that the swap has to be made during movement phase.

[Tiger9gamer]

so how do they help out then? do you just walk in turn one then? what if a drop pod comes down next to a unit turn one and attacks before they are inside the transport?

[munocat]

so how do they help out then? do you just walk in turn one then? what if a drop pod comes down next to a unit turn one and attacks before they are inside the transport?

Just have to deploy Wisely, keep the unit behind the vehicle, use terrain, and take risks. Or just don't take vehicles, if you think it won't help you out.

 

Personally I will take a LR, to get rusttakers close to a melee.

[Tiger9gamer]

 

so how do they help out then? do you just walk in turn one then? what if a drop pod comes down next to a unit turn one and attacks before they are inside the transport?

Just have to deploy Wisely, keep the unit behind the vehicle, use terrain, and take risks. Or just don't take vehicles, if you think it won't help you out.

 

Personally I will take a LR, to get rusttakers close to a melee.

 

 

All good points, and I never really tried it yet, kinda afraid to. 

 

anyways I posted my idea of an unbound list here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306237-unbound-skitarii-1500pts/

[Aethernitas]

If you really want to put something into a Landraider it should probably be Infiltrators as you can offset one of their bigger weaknesses - the assault grenades. The pure dmg-output sets Taser-Infiltrators miles ahead of Ruststalkers.

 

Regarding Vanguards/Ranger I remembered the fact that our Warlord get automatic preferred enemy. I think it would actually be pretty effective to just take a 10man squad of Rangers with 3 Plasma Calivers. Even just the +1 BS buff pretty much guarantees that all shots hit and wound. Getting to reroll all the ones when overwatching should make even terminators think twice when charging that unit.

[Vel'Cona]

Agreed on the full Caliver Rangers/Vanguard.  I think their biggest challenge will be getting to range, so an allied DP or even a cheap Rhino would help a lot.  I suppose you could just screen them with another unit (Onagers?), though then you're falling back on a so-so cover save.

[Tiger9gamer]

I did try the big plasma squad, but it got turned 1 by an iron clad >.< That thing has been the bane of my existance as an ork player and I'm sad to see it return! 

 

 

but I agree the plasma is good... I even planned on running that squad with a xenos inquisitor to toss rad grenades before firing to maximize damage! 

[Yodhrin]

If you really want to put something into a Landraider it should probably be Infiltrators as you can offset one of their bigger weaknesses - the assault grenades. The pure dmg-output sets Taser-Infiltrators miles ahead of Ruststalkers.

 

Regarding Vanguards/Ranger I remembered the fact that our Warlord get automatic preferred enemy. I think it would actually be pretty effective to just take a 10man squad of Rangers with 3 Plasma Calivers. Even just the +1 BS buff pretty much guarantees that all shots hit and wound. Getting to reroll all the ones when overwatching should make even terminators think twice when charging that unit.

 

I think folk are going to get a nasty surprise taking Infiltrators over Stalkers based on mathhammer averages - Taser Infiltrators have a higher potential output, but they're extremely dice-dependent. I've always found it better to base unit selection on how a they'll will perform when I'm not rolling well, and with Warlord, Claws, and Haywire assault 'nades there's a better chance Stalkers will do what I want when I want them to.

[Tiger9gamer]

Hey, this is about vanguard and rangers! >.> There is another tactica for this!

[Aethernitas]

I think folk are going to get a nasty surprise taking Infiltrators over Stalkers based on mathhammer averages - Taser Infiltrators have a higher potential output, but they're extremely dice-dependent. I've always found it better to base unit selection on how a they'll will perform when I'm not rolling well, and with Warlord, Claws, and Haywire assault 'nades there's a better chance Stalkers will do what I want when I want them to.

 

 

It's okay if you like the models more and you WANT to that believe the Ruststalkers are in general superior to Taser-Infiltrators but the facts don't support your statement. The Infiltrators actually do nearly as much wounds (on MEQ) on AVERAGE as the ruststalkers manage to do if every single attack hits and wounds. On the charge thats 17,5 average wounds for Taser Infiltrators versus 21 absolute maximum wounds for Ruststalkers. I also find it strange to say Infiltrators are more chance-dependent when they hit a lot more attacks (cuz 3+) and they only have one special rule that is chance dependent which is the Taser. Ruststalkers actually need to land the claw attack for easy wounding AND have the transonic "rending" on sixes.

 

I don't want to diminish Rustalkers - I think their models look a bit better and they are great against TEQ or reeeally high toughness monsters. It's just that the Infiltrators strength are applicable in more situations.

 

For further discussion please head to the "Infiltrators or Ruststalkers?" thread. Sorry for the offtopic post. Delete if you have to.

[Vel'Cona]

Back to the topic at hand, I'm looking at doing a Caliver Vanguard Squad in an allied BA Rhino.  I was thinking DP, but I would prefer them to be less a suicide squad and more of an objective taker.  Not sure if this is a good method, but there is the upside of having the top hatch for popping a couple shots a turn.  I've been pondering using allied Chimeras (Inquisition), but I like the idea of Vanguard STARTING in the Rhino (since it's non-dedicated) to avoid the very problem that Tiger9gamer had.

 

Any thoughts?

[munocat]

Back to the topic at hand, I'm looking at doing a Caliver Vanguard Squad in an allied BA Rhino.  I was thinking DP, but I would prefer them to be less a suicide squad and more of an objective taker.  Not sure if this is a good method, but there is the upside of having the top hatch for popping a couple shots a turn.  I've been pondering using allied Chimeras (Inquisition), but I like the idea of Vanguard STARTING in the Rhino (since it's non-dedicated) to avoid the very problem that Tiger9gamer had.

 

Any thoughts?

The only game 2 have played with skitarii, i had 2 units of 5, plus one unit of 5 sternguard iron heads(iron hands with vanguard heads and mechanical legs and arms, and torso is from the vehicle guys with the skull and cog. I put the Rangers in a building, holding an objective in my deployment zone and put the stern and vanguard on the edge of the dz, I used scout moves to run the vanguard, by end of turn one I held 2 objects. I was able to run these guys, and shoot when needed the whole game, i was able to get into his deployment zone and score one objective there. I run 5 man units to maximize my strategies, plus field more special weapons. The key to keeping them safe is to offer a target that makes your opponent focus his energy away from your units. Buying time to set up ambushes, field position, and counter threats, as well as support.

[Zembar]

Has anyone magnetized the heads on their arc rifle carriers? Does it work well and does it look good?

[heron]

Well. I finally committed to how i want my squads to run for a basic list set up. I played a game the other day against a nidzilla list, allying into my cousins raven guard army with what skitarii i have now.

6 rangers, omniscope and two arquebus.

6 ranger, omniscope and one plasma caliver

8 vanguard, 2 arc rifles

2 dragons

2 vengeance batteries

 

Given that the opponent was nids, i can't speak for how they arc rifles might have worked, but i will say that the basic ranger gun is excellent, and a msu squad approach with just an omniscope is pretty great. The arquebus is pretty slick as well and i used them to focus fire on carnifexes to take out ones that were already wounded. The radium carbine is also good, but with the amount of T6 i was dealing with, i was less enamored with them in this

 

The dragons were the rock stars though. What a great unit for tying up threats. They easily get the charge in, and i used them to lock up a squad of warriors and a squad of zoanthropes for much of the game.

 

In going forward, i think that I would rather spend extra pts. on more small units than piling on to get a third special weapon.

[CommodusXIII]

Has anyone magnetized the heads on their arc rifle carriers? Does it work well and does it look good?

 

Looking at the sprue, it's very possible!  I don't think anyone would be able to tell.

 

The neck is your standard ball-and-socket joint to the head.  However, the chest armor fills up the torso cavity quite a bit.  So you don't have to worry about losing your magnet if you push it too far into the neck!

 

http://i.imgur.com/b6w18FOl.png

[Zembar]

I think I'll try it then. Should be a good way to reduce my anxiety about wasting three boxes worth of arc rifles on the wrong kind...

[Battybattybats]

Has anyone magnetized the heads on their arc rifle carriers? Does it work well and does it look good?

Interesting idea. I was considering doing so for an alpha and/or princeps so i could model the Omnissan Mask but not always use it.

[CommodusXIII]

Speaking of the Omniscient Mask, I was thinking of using a Death Mask from the Sanguinary Guard. I'm on the fence, though, since 1) I don't know how well it will scale on the Skitarii torso and 2) I don't think I'll ever actually use it in my army. I just think it would look mean - and very reminiscent of the Dwemer from The Elder Scrolls.

[Vel'Cona]

The Omniscient Mask is really better for Sicarians.  If you could take squads of 15-20 Vanguard it'd be amazing for them, but the 10 man restriction is a problem.  Honestly, I think the only relic worth considering on Skitarii is the Pater Radium, and even that is questionable (given it only works if they actually survive a round of combat).

[Reyner]

With regards to swapping the head for special weapon users how about you just use the bare heads that come with the kit? Then it doesn't matter as they are ballsy enough to carry plasma weapons or arc weapons without the cowardly need for a helmet? :P