Aethernitas Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 How did you use your Doctrina Imperatives to bolster you strat? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4019609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Well in my case I am close combat oriented towards the end. With that said, my first 2 turns are my main shooting turns. In the first turn I used the +3 BS doctrina. The -2 to WS for me is important to get rid of asap. Turn 2, the +2 BS doctrina for the same reason above. Now, in turn 3 assaults will start playing a small part for me. Here I'll either use the +1 WS or +1 BS doctrina. In this way I do not give any negative effects to the other units. Turn 4 as turn 3. What ever I didn't use I'll use this turn instead. The difference here might be that I am in close combat more than expected. The of course I'll switch to +3 WS if needed. For me, charging in with the Skitarii has proven to pay off. The Vanguards ability to lower the toughness with 1 is really good. It levels the playing field against marines. Add that before the Vanguards charge in, they shoot with their assault 3 rad weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4019614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Had my first try with a 1k list today and them Vanguard are devastating when they shoot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4020225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Yah tell me about it. a full 10 man squad lays out so many wounds its ridiculous. If I decide to expand my skitarii force beyond 2500 pts, I'll probably start buying in more Skitarii Vanguards and Rangers. No upgrades on them. Keep them cheap and single purpose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4020257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Yah tell me about it. a full 10 man squad lays out so many wounds its ridiculous. If I decide to expand my skitarii force beyond 2500 pts, I'll probably start buying in more Skitarii Vanguards and Rangers. No upgrades on them. Keep them cheap and single purpose. I'm tempted to just get a load of the fw ones. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/large/thralls-laslocks-10.jpg or http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/large/thralls-mitralocks-10.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4020309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 you know.... I do kinda like the Thralls more as a "classic" design of the basic line trooper skitarii. come to think of it we havn't had just the foot soldier version, just one that is the stalker/ special forces (rangers) and the other that is the "nuke Everything" kind of trooper. I hope in the big book they have the guardsmen version for our basic troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4020338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I don't know if they will do a basic line trooper. The Skitarii I read about in Titanicus had arm mounted guns and definitely resembled those thralls more tho. I was kind of let down when I found the Vanguard and Rangers looked a little to fancy with their tech priest robes, so I also hope there's a more basic trooper with arm mounted guns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4020367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apostle of the 30th Host Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I don't know if they will do a basic line trooper. The Skitarii I read about in Titanicus had arm mounted guns and definitely resembled those thralls more tho. I was kind of let down when I found the Vanguard and Rangers looked a little to fancy with their tech priest robes, so I also hope there's a more basic trooper with arm mounted guns. I thought the same. However, I kind of interpreted Codex: Skitarii to be like a sort of AdMech advanced recon force or shock troops - that is what vanguard typically refers to - and so the elites the work ahead of the main force (therefore Rangers and Vanguard with fast support vehicles). If there is a full codex it therefore seems likely that there will be a 'lesser' troops unit with Rangers and Vanguard either sharing that space or moving to elites (like MT/AM Scions). Just my thoughts but made me feel better about it so hopefully it will do the same for you :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4020413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Well Militarum Tempestus came out first, then Astra Militarum. Harlequins too... came out before the Eldar Codex. So we could expect to see a Adeptus Mechanicus codex in the future. Around here the Skitarii have been a pretty good success. People buy them just to paint them. Other have them as allies of some kind, and some like me go all bananas and go for them as the main force. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4020421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithrilForge Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Well Militarum Tempestus came out first, then Astra Militarum. Harlequins too... came out before the Eldar Codex. So we could expect to see a Adeptus Mechanicus codex in the future. Around here the Skitarii have been a pretty good success. People buy them just to paint them. Other have them as allies of some kind, and some like me go all bananas and go for them as the main force. ... your not the only one there i believe rashbold is going full skitarii too...actually i bet there's a large amount of full Skitarii armies here now that it's been out a few weeks. and Vash i like how you doctrina choice flows...very logical ! Mithril Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4020589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Well Militarum Tempestus came out first, then Astra Militarum. Harlequins too... came out before the Eldar Codex. So we could expect to see a Adeptus Mechanicus codex in the future. Around here the Skitarii have been a pretty good success. People buy them just to paint them. Other have them as allies of some kind, and some like me go all bananas and go for them as the main force. ... your not the only one there i believe rashbold is going full skitarii too...actually i bet there's a large amount of full Skitarii armies here now that it's been out a few weeks. and Vash i like how you doctrina choice flows...very logical ! Mithril He he :D Well good thing I am not alone. But I do fear the day the full codex arrives... There might actually be transports in there! Thats one thing I had to combine with Blood Angles, Flesh Tearers Strike force detachment. The Doctrina flow is not set in stone, but is a general idea I have of how it could play out. It worked in the game I played so far. I have now bought most of the units I need. What I am missing is one more Drop pod, one Ironstrider, 15 skitarii and one Magus Dominus (will represent the Flesh tearer librarian on bike). The GW products I can't buy at the moment as the two local stores are all out (partially because of me...). We actually only have one local store, but that store has one more in a city next to mine. Of course I traveled there to sack their shelves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4020701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodhrin Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Man, I'm really struggling to figure out how to compose my army. I keep vacillating between footslogging Rangers and mechanised Vanguard as the core of my infantry; the Rangers' basic weapon has more kick and better range, but they don't synergise really well with any of the special weapons and they're exceptionally squishy, while the Vanguard can put out a ridiculous volume of fire with their standard gun at ranges that work well with the two better specials, plus their debuff aura and increased survivability from rent-a-Rhinos, but to really take advantage of them I feel obliged to build the rest of the army around the Assault phase and I generally prefer shooty builds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4020732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Man, I'm really struggling to figure out how to compose my army. I keep vacillating between footslogging Rangers and mechanised Vanguard as the core of my infantry; the Rangers' basic weapon has more kick and better range, but they don't synergise really well with any of the special weapons and they're exceptionally squishy, while the Vanguard can put out a ridiculous volume of fire with their standard gun at ranges that work well with the two better specials, plus their debuff aura and increased survivability from rent-a-Rhinos, but to really take advantage of them I feel obliged to build the rest of the army around the Assault phase and I generally prefer shooty builds. A combination of both sounds like your game. They have different roles to play. I my self use them both. The rangers do well in the back and moving around my own lines to grab objectives. Rangers in Drop pods (in the future at least) to get up close and personal with their high volume fire weapons. Rushing into combat, lead by an inquisitor (equipped with rad grenades) in the later stages. Considering the Doctrinas we have, close combat is something we should consider, since we do get a nice buff to our WS with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4020743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithrilForge Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Rangers Vanguard in Drop pods (in the future at least) to get up close and personal with their high volume fire weapons. Rushing into combat, lead by an inquisitor (equipped with rad grenades) in the later stages. Considering the Doctrinas we have, close combat is something we should consider, since we do get a nice buff to our WS with it. Fixed for you... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4021284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Indeed, if you're looking to get up close and personal then the Vanguard trump the Rangers. Their -1 T ability is better than anything the Rangers have to offer in that environment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4021301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share Posted April 27, 2015 but again, the rangers have prescision shots and AP4, as well as move through cover. dropping them into terrain is pretty viable and would be hard to move them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4021756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 They both have their uses. I don't think a pure Skitarii force should chose between them, but instead use them both. On the other hand, when taking them as a combined detachment with another army, one can start to think of the Skitarii's role. Shooting support, or mid range support with clean up in close combat (support here too, for dedicated close combat units with their debuff ability). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4021765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Right, but if he's looking to "rush into combat, lead by an inquisitor (equipped with rad grenades) in the later stages" then the Vanguard are the best option. Plus, I'm pretty sure that the Inquisitor's Rad Grenades can stack with the Vanguard's ability from a rules-as-written standpoint. Charging in with -2 T on your enemy is rather nasty. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4021770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Vanguard with the plasma guns is awesome when your warlord is in the unit for preferred enemy. I'd be hesitant to have a second group with them though and probably go with arc rifles or nothing at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4021776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Right, but if he's looking to "rush into combat, lead by an inquisitor (equipped with rad grenades) in the later stages" then the Vanguard are the best option. Plus, I'm pretty sure that the Inquisitor's Rad Grenades can stack with the Vanguard's ability from a rules-as-written standpoint. Charging in with -2 T on your enemy is rather nasty. Sounds like something I wrote :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4021907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Indeed! Sorry, I was replying to Tiger9gamer when you ninja'd in before my post! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4021915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share Posted April 27, 2015 Oh, I didn't know he wanted to assault! my bad. >.< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4021924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 No worries! I'm not sure about Rad Grenades and Rad Poisoning stacking, otherwise it wouldn't be as good of an effect. The two of them together would drop Space Marine characters to T2, allowing for some hilarious Instant Death opportunities. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4021927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshall Egregorius Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Well Militarum Tempestus came out first, then Astra Militarum. Harlequins too... came out before the Eldar Codex. So we could expect to see a Adeptus Mechanicus codex in the future. Around here the Skitarii have been a pretty good success. People buy them just to paint them. Other have them as allies of some kind, and some like me go all bananas and go for them as the main force. ... your not the only one there i believe rashbold is going full skitarii too...actually i bet there's a large amount of full Skitarii armies here now that it's been out a few weeks. and Vash i like how you doctrina choice flows...very logical ! Mithril I am also liquidating my original combined imperial collection to collect a themed mechanicus/space marine etc army, with mechanicus being the core. My original collection was using imperial guard units as skitarii or forge world conscripted units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4021954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshall Egregorius Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Gentlemen, is an omnispex useful for demi-squads of 5 or should I wait and make the upgrade for my eventual full squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305599-starting-out-rangers-or-vanguard/page/7/#findComment-4033795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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