Starting out: Rangers or Vanguard?

[Vel'Cona]

Depends what they're carrying.  For Plasma Calivers, probably not needed since they'll often be going after 2+ save enemies (who don't tend to camp cover).  For Arc Rifles, I think it's a good choice since the vehicles they'll want to shoot at can often easily get cover saves from Jink (though not all).  For Transuranic Arquebus, it'll really help to make the most of their few shots, but since they're already so expensive it may be best to save the points.  In general, the Omnispex is going to get a lot more mileage from full units (obviously) so I usually don't use it unless I'm taking the full 10.

[marshall Egregorius]

Thank you for your thoughts Vel'cona. Your opinions have been uploaded to my data-banks :)

[Shinn]

As a new Ad Mech player who just got the codex and 2 boxes of Skitarii ordered...What is the verdict on usefulness/how to build.

 

Like 2 squads of Rangers or Vanguard

 

1 of each

 

5 man Vanguard and 15 ranges etc.

 

Advice,comments and help is much appreciated

 

If it helps...my other armies are Templars,IG,and Dark Angels.

[munocat]

As a new Ad Mech player who just got the codex and 2 boxes of Skitarii ordered...What is the verdict on usefulness/how to build.

 

Like 2 squads of Rangers or Vanguard

 

1 of each

 

5 man Vanguard and 15 ranges etc.

 

Advice,comments and help is much appreciated

 

If it helps...my other armies are Templars,IG,and Dark Angels.

 

For 2 boxes, I would do:

 

10 vanguard with 2 plasma caliver

5 rangers with 2 arquebus (war lord in this unit)

5 vanguard with 2 arc rifles.

[Shinn]

Why Vanguard over rangers?

[Lord Daidalos]

Bad News is: It really is a tough choice and community has no real consense here, just agrees on details and some tactical thoughts.
Good news is: You can not do it totally wrong.

Some points none the less:
-If there are now other factors like you totally hate the one models (head) and love the others: Go with Vanguard, because they are a wee bit cheaper.

-If you strongly prefer either slowly advancing, shooting and Melee or stay away, hide and fire... you may want a majority of Vanguard for the first, Rangers for the later general playstyle.
-Community is strongly divided on the usefulness of TuA: Weapon is highly luck-dependend, but can do a lot and has a psych. effect. Both sides agree that is a bit expensive...

-Vanguards HAVE TO go up close to do their damage. Rangers do less but more reliable and from afar.
-Arc Rifles seem like the best Option for everything. Relatively cheap, damn good against vehicles, solid against most infantry. Only reason not to take them would be if you plan on getting serious Anti-Tank weaponry from other sources... like many Ironstrider Ballistarii (LK), Kataphrons with heavy Arc, Knight Errant, etc.

-Plasma Caliver is a bit of a difficult choice: On the one hand you have really high Potential of killing heavy Infantry of all sorts... in this case you must think about gets-hot and Doctrinae to lower the risk and COULD make your Vanguard your warlord for preferred enemy. The other side is: Plasma-Calivers are a bit expensive and with a ton of S6 AP3 weaponry without gets-hot in both Mechanicus-Codices you really don´t need Plasma as urgend as other armies... IF you know what to do with Terminators.

Conclusion: It really IS up to you and depends on your preference and army. I have 3 boxes and am going to built:
2 x 5 Rangers; 1 Unit 2 TuA, 1 bare;
2 x 5 Vanguard with 2 Arc Rifles each;
1 x 10 Vanguard to slowly advance and bind Enemy for easy kills (Sicarians and/or Dragoon)

Pardon any mistakes of my english... haven´t writen or talked that much in recent times, just read...^^

[Shinn]

I like to think things through/debate...Especially as for now I don't plan on expanding right away. (originally bought a box because i was tired of painting Marines and IG...then the gf got me another. )

 

I originally thought something like

 

1 10 man Rangers Omnispex and 3 Arc rifles?

 

! 5 man rangers Omni 2 TuA

 

1 5 man Vanguard with maybe plasma?

 

PS Your English is pretty good compared to a lot of people. :)

[Lord Daidalos]

Thanks. :)

If you do it like that, you have to have a plan for how to get these Arc-Rifles into range... if you do, seems legit;

5 man Rangers... I´m sure that´s the best way to field TuA;

5 man Vanguard is allright. I´d get more of them because of point costs, like the models and have less Hoods to paint, but you can do it like that. Remember though, that you have to think about gets-hot one way or the other.

Totally forgot about Omnispex... I take it on EVERY unit... I like knowing that my whole Skitarii-Army reduces or ignores cover save so I can concentrate on how to open up heavy armor or vehicles. Hordes - the one thing Skitarii have problems killing (aside eradication beamer that is) - will be slaughtered by Iron Hands-Allies...

[Shinn]

The group I play with tend to be more 'play for fun,not win at all cost' Plus I figured regardless of what I ally them to...There's bigger targets others will worry about. At least until i decide if i want to expand. >.>

[Brother Amarel]

I like to think things through/debate...Especially as for now I don't plan on expanding right away. (originally bought a box because i was tired of painting Marines and IG...then the gf got me another. )

I originally thought something like

1 10 man Rangers Omnispex and 3 Arc rifles?

! 5 man rangers Omni 2 TuA

1 5 man Vanguard with maybe plasma?

PS Your English is pretty good compared to a lot of people.

I have a 10 man Rangers unit it Omnispex and 3 Arc Rifles. It's worked well so far (Scout (from Formation) and Move Through Cover, really help out). I also have a 5 man unit with 2 Trans Arq, which has caused more distraction than it should for the points just due to the threat (definitely recommend the Refractor Field here with the Alpha out front). I also have a 10 man Vanguard unit with Plasma, I'm not sure I'd recommend them as a 5-man Unit, though, they'll likely be the first to die.

[Shinn]

I think the Vanguard could be fine if intermingled behind a Tac/Crusader squad?

[munocat]

The reason why I pick vanguard over rangers is the way I play them

 

Rangers will be more in the back field, there 30" plus 60" rifles are used to covering fire. The vanguard is the unit on the move. I like that a 6 to wound does 2 wounds regardless of thoughness. Here is my setup

 

10 rangers, with 3 arquebus snipe special weapons from units

10 vanguard 2 plasma mc and high toughness hunters

10 vanguard 2 plasma mc and high toughness hunters

10 vanguard

10 vanguard 3 arc, vehicle hunters.

 

I use ranger heads for my vanguard, I use my vanguard heads for my iron heads space marines ( iron hands)

 

I have used the arquebus to wreck low armor vehicles, raiders, venoms, war walkers, vipers, rhinos, razor backs

[Targetlock]

So is the omnispex a better option over the data-tether then? because you can only have one or the other in a unit sadly.

 

I personally prefer rangers, but will still be using vanguard though I prefer 10 man squads for everything as i think 5 man squads seems too fragile, though that might be just me.

[Father Mehman]

I went ahead and bought another box (total boxes at three) so I could field more Vanguard. I think for my play style- if I ever get to play again which is, frankly, unlikely- I'd do better with a 2:1 ratio of Vanguard to Rangers. The Rangers can sit in the backfield with the Primus and snipe/utilize that 30" range to cover the Vanguard as they advance. If the Rangers come under attack from a vehicle(s), no problem. They have an Arc Rifle and the Primus has an Arc Pistol and Taser Goad so I'm sure whatever big thing comes at them will die. The two Arquebuses will be handy, too, in that situation.

 

For the Vanguard, one squad will have a Plasma Culverin, Arc Rifle, and Transuranic Arquebus for the joy of taking on a little bit of everything. Their Alpha will have a Phosphor Blast Pistol for the re-roll on charging and a Power Sword to take on AP3 opponents in challenges. The other squad will be equipped with two Plasma Culverins and an Arc Rifle for destroying AP2 enemies and some light vehicles. The Alpha in that squad will be armed with an Arc Pistol and Arc Maul. Refractor Fields for everyone.

 

It comes down to play style rather than trying to decide "what's best". This is my optimal load-out for the Skitarii based on what I need and don't need. It won't work for a lot of people but maybe someone will get an idea for what they might need.

[Vel'Cona]

So is the omnispex a better option over the data-tether then? because you can only have one or the other in a unit sadly.

 

I personally prefer rangers, but will still be using vanguard though I prefer 10 man squads for everything as i think 5 man squads seems too fragile, though that might be just me.

 

I think the Data-Tether is somewhat redundant, since the majority of your units are going to be Ld 9 anyway (character) and you can get that 10 from a Broad-Spectrum Data Tether (keep Ironstriders or better yet Onagers nearby), which is free on your vehicles.  The Omnispex will be generally useful for both Arc Rifle and TA equipped Skitarii, and the Plasma Caliver can still get use out of it.

 

As far as taking full squads, I'm right on board there.  5 man units are pretty easy to take out regardless of what you do, and you will have to worry about morale in either case so having more bodies reduces the risk this poses.  Also, if you choose to go for special weapons, that 3rd weapon for the full unit can get a lot of mileage (esp. a third Arc Rifle).

[Targetlock]

Thanks for the advice, it was what I was thinking anyway :)

[Shinn]

Well..i ended up deciding to build  a 10 man squad of each....Would it look ok to give the special weapons(Minus the TuA as thats def sticking with the Rangers.) the hal-helmed(?) heads so they can be swapped between Van  and Rangers?

[Zembar]

Well..i ended up deciding to build  a 10 man squad of each....Would it look ok to give the special weapons(Minus the TuA as thats def sticking with the Rangers.) the hal-helmed(?) heads so they can be swapped between Van  and Rangers?

 

That might work. Personally I'm thinking of magnetizing the heads to be able to swap.

[Shinn]

Idk if i could manage that myself

[Vel'Cona]

Well..i ended up deciding to build a 10 man squad of each....Would it look ok to give the special weapons(Minus the TuA as thats def sticking with the Rangers.) the hal-helmed(?) heads so they can be swapped between Van and Rangers?

That's not a bad idea. Honestly, I've had to go back and swap enough arms/heads on my Skitarii that I'm feeling like I should have magnetized in the first place. That's the pitfall of being an early adopter to a new codex!

[Cactus]

Well..i ended up deciding to build a 10 man squad of each....Would it look ok to give the special weapons(Minus the TuA as thats def sticking with the Rangers.) the hal-helmed(?) heads so they can be swapped between Van and Rangers?

That's exactly what I'm doing. The only visual differences between rangers and vanguard are guns and headgear, and the 'gimp mask' heads are appropriate for either unit. Note that some of them have a furled hood at the back of the neck but shouldn't be an issue unless you're very picky.

[DeStinyFiSh]

Hey,

 

sorry for digging out this old one, but I was curious to hear some experience now that Skitarii are out a few months now.

 

I have on particular question: Which one works better on the table ?

I have got the feeling, that most players prefer the Vanguards, but I do not know why. Up to now my understanding was, that the Tau have the best standard gun. That said, I think the Galvanic Rifle is not far behind the Pulse Rifle if at all. So when the Rangers perform even better, does this mean the Skitarii can field 2 of the top 3 standart weapons ?

 

Or are there other reasons for playing Vanguard over Rangers ? Price, -T, better in Pods etc... ?

What are your experiences ?

[Yodhrin]

Hey,

 

sorry for digging out this old one, but I was curious to hear some experience now that Skitarii are out a few months now.

 

I have on particular question: Which one works better on the table ?

I have got the feeling, that most players prefer the Vanguards, but I do not know why. Up to now my understanding was, that the Tau have the best standard gun. That said, I think the Galvanic Rifle is not far behind the Pulse Rifle if at all. So when the Rangers perform even better, does this mean the Skitarii can field 2 of the top 3 standart weapons ?

 

Or are there other reasons for playing Vanguard over Rangers ? Price, -T, better in Pods etc... ?

What are your experiences ?

 

 

For a start, Rad Carbines will wound anything on a 6, regardless of toughness, and do 2 wounds when they do so. Considering those guns are Assault 3 and you can give them Arc Rifles as well, you have a unit that can reliably engage almost anything in the game; MCs, hordes, vehicles - even elites can go down to the sheer volume of fire. For me AP4 Precision Shots just can't compare to that - OK so they're better at picking out special weapons from Stormtrooper-equivalent units, but against weaker armoured enemies Vanguard could simply delete the opposing unit rather than try to pick off particular targets, and against 3+ or better you only really get a marginal chance of killing what you select, which just isn't worth the loss in flexibility and sheer weight of fire.

 

When you also factor in Vanguard's lower starting price, the way they synergise with Skitarii CC units thanks to the toughness debuff etc, the only reason to take Rangers over Vanguard, for me at least, is the range limitation of Vanguard which, given ready access to Scout or allied transports, isn't that big of a deal.

[Terminus]

As a new Ad Mech player who just got the codex and 2 boxes of Skitarii ordered...What is the verdict on usefulness/how to build.

 

Like 2 squads of Rangers or Vanguard

 

1 of each

 

5 man Vanguard and 15 ranges etc.

 

Advice,comments and help is much appreciated

 

If it helps...my other armies are Templars,IG,and Dark Angels.

for what it's worth, I'm assembling all of my guys with the hoods. nothing says you have to use the gimp masks for the units, hoods are a classic mechanicus attire that helps tie the army together, and it lets me use the special weapons for either unit.

 

With two boxes, you have to consider that you only get two copies of each weapon. buying them separately is currently quite expensive, I've seen a single arc rifle go for 8-9 bucks on eBay.

 

So in your case, I'd build a 5 man-squad of Rangers with 2 Arquebus (not the greatest unit since sniper rifles kind of suck in 7th edition, but annoying enough), 7 Vanguard with 2 calivers and 7 Vanguard with 2 arc rifles. Last guy can be whatever.

 

I'd get a third box so you can build 10 rangers with 3 arquebus (great unit to make your warlord since preferred enemy means they average 2 precise hits per turn, one of which should be an Arquebus, feel free to do a happy dance if you also roll shrouded), 10 Vanguard with arc rifles, and 10 with Calivers.

[Lucien Eilam]

Rangers are a Relentless, Move Through Cover unit with rapid-fire guns. If you look at that combination and conclude they should be stationary at maximum range, you may need to consider an upgrade of the old quantum bioware. They're much better kept mobile in the mid-range.

 

Vanguard can hurt anything, but you usually have better options for high toughness targets. Against the kind of targets you really want them to be shooting, at the range these units should be, the damage output of Vanguard is typically only a couple of wounds higher than Rangers. Neither unit is going to be "deleting" Space Marines, but while the Vanguard will kill a few more bolters, the Rangers have a decent chance of killing a grav-cannon.

 

Rad-saturation is good, but don't expect to have much of a squad left afterwards. The Rangers' Move Through Cover, and the fact you have no reason to get them into close combat, makes them much more survivable.

 

Codex Skitarii has great internal balance, I wouldn't leave home without some of both. Vanguard for the higher average damage output and synergy with the assault units, Rangers for resilience and sniping.

 

I'm not a fan of automatically maxing out the special weapons on either squad. When you consider the quality of their basic weapons, they're very expensive upgrades that don't do anything you can't get elsewhere in your army in dedicated squads.