[HH1.0] 30k Ultramarines tactics

[Ishagu]

 

 

Chaplain consul or a basic Centurion with a power fist.

For 1500 points, I get it, but for 2000 you're not taking a Praetor ?

Not if I'm bringing the Primarch. I'd rather spend 85 points on a Chaplain to give Guilliman and the Invectarus the Zealot rule.

[GreyCrow]

 

 

Chaplain consul or a basic Centurion with a power fist.

For 1500 points, I get it, but for 2000 you're not taking a Praetor ?

Not if I'm bringing the Primarch. I'd rather spend 85 points on a Chaplain to give Guilliman and the Invectarus the Zealot rule.

 

 

Fair enough ;)

 

By the way, have you recently tried footslogging blobs as basic Troops ?

[Ishagu]

Yes, in one game I ran one squad in a Rhino, and a further 20 with Apothecary on foot.

 

I hid them behind advancing tanks to begin with, my opponent didn't have any large template Weapons which was lucky.

 

The squad endured till end game but they didn't really do much. I was actually playing 40k maelstrom missions and the Tacs were too slow to capture objectives. Fury of the Legion was fun though!

[Frostmourne]

I can't not have a praetor with my Suzerains. Even though a Chaplain is damn near Broken with how good it makes them, it's too many points and not enough cool

[Hesh Kadesh]

No real necessity. 200pts on a Praetor, or 200pts on a Suzerain/Terminator unit to deal damage.

[GreyCrow]

Yes, in one game I ran one squad in a Rhino, and a further 20 with Apothecary on foot.

 

I hid them behind advancing tanks to begin with, my opponent didn't have any large template Weapons which was lucky.

 

The squad endured till end game but they didn't really do much. I was actually playing 40k maelstrom missions and the Tacs were too slow to capture objectives. Fury of the Legion was fun though!

 

I see, thanks for the report. No large templates, but did he have Rapiers or other barrage ? (Scorpius comes to mind)

[caladancid]

Ok here is my problem.

 

A unit of Suzerains (8) with two hammers and a land raider phobos is 555 pts. I want to add a unit of breachers in a land raider, but a ten man squad with 5 power swords and a sgt with breaching charge and melta bomb costs 515 pts (with the land raider). I feel like at that points cost I might as well just get another unit of 8 suzerains. All of this is of course with the idea that I have Guilliman and suzerains are troops.

 

Am I crazy to want to take the Breachers?

Edited January 7, 2016 by caladancid

[shandwen]

Am I crazy to want to take the Breachers?

Nah, competitivness isn't everything. Breachers are cool and have a unique boost for us, so it is another unit to play with pride rather than malice.

[Terminus]

You don't have to run them in a land raider. With boarding shields and melta-bombs, they want to be in melee with vehicles, dreads and monstrous creatures, stuff that Suzerain would prefer not to engage. Put them in a Dreadclaw.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Terminus

[Frostmourne]

You can always wack them in a Proteus and just get them to a far flung objective and have them camp it. That's saved me before.

[Charlo]

Proteus for the win. Always better to hunker down with breachers and then go for something with MB if it gets close.

[caladancid]

My concern is that the breachers (or second squad of suzerain are needed to support Guilliman's unit). So here is the 2.5k list I've been thinking about:

 

Guilliman --400

 

Chaplain w/jump pack --105

 

Suzerain x8 w/two hammers 

Phobos

--555

 

Breachers x10 w/five power swords

SGT w/breaching charge and melta bomb

Phobos

--515

 

Locutarus Storm Squad x10 w/two hand flamers

SGT w/hand flamer

--315

 

Deredeo w/Aiolos --220

 

Sicaran w/lascannons -- 175

 

Sicaran Venator --190

 

---2475 total

 

The overall theme here is supposed to be members of the 4th chapter (Aurorans). The second squad in the land raider is meant to support Guilliman as he and the suzerain do work up field. So I am little hesitant to take that squad away for objective grabbing. I should have listed this in the first question, but any thoughts based on the total list?

[Frostmourne]

Locutarus are amazing. Can't wait for their models.

[Charlo]

Locutarus are a sleeper hit. Possibly an excuse for plasma pistols too. Double tapping is pretty Damn nice.

[Ishagu]

My concern is that the breachers (or second squad of suzerain are needed to support Guilliman's unit). So here is the 2.5k list I've been thinking about:

 

Guilliman --400

 

Chaplain w/jump pack --105

 

Suzerain x8 w/two hammers

Phobos

--555

 

Breachers x10 w/five power swords

SGT w/breaching charge and melta bomb

Phobos

--515

 

Locutarus Storm Squad x10 w/two hand flamers

SGT w/hand flamer

--315

 

Deredeo w/Aiolos --220

 

Sicaran w/lascannons -- 175

 

Sicaran Venator --190

 

---2475 total

 

The overall theme here is supposed to be members of the 4th chapter (Aurorans). The second squad in the land raider is meant to support Guilliman as he and the suzerain do work up field. So I am little hesitant to take that squad away for objective grabbing. I should have listed this in the first question, but any thoughts based on the total list?

Double up on Regular Sicarans to make use of the Primarch's buffs.

[GreyCrow]

Yeah, it is so bad that you can't Deep Strike them with the Logos... I find it a really dumb move to prevent 33% of the special units of a Legion to be used to their optimal efficiency when using the ROW :p

 

Otherwise sure, they can hang behind the main line, tank a few shots then move further out, but it's a bit of a waste.

[caladancid]

Locutarus are amazing. Can't wait for their models.

Yeah I couldn't wait I'm making some now. Using jump packs from Sanguinary guard (minus the wings), flamers from death company, power swords from about four different kits, and FW heads and torsos. Base set is Vanguard Veterans.

[Ishagu]

Grey, you still blabbering about the Logos? Lol :-P

 

But yes, it's a really silly limitation. I'm hoping for a new Ultramarine RoW in the next book.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Ishagu

[caladancid]

 

My concern is that the breachers (or second squad of suzerain are needed to support Guilliman's unit). So here is the 2.5k list I've been thinking about:

 

Guilliman --400

 

Chaplain w/jump pack --105

 

Suzerain x8 w/two hammers

Phobos

--555

 

Breachers x10 w/five power swords

SGT w/breaching charge and melta bomb

Phobos

--515

 

Locutarus Storm Squad x10 w/two hand flamers

SGT w/hand flamer

--315

 

Deredeo w/Aiolos --220

 

Sicaran w/lascannons -- 175

 

Sicaran Venator --190

 

---2475 total

 

The overall theme here is supposed to be members of the 4th chapter (Aurorans). The second squad in the land raider is meant to support Guilliman as he and the suzerain do work up field. So I am little hesitant to take that squad away for objective grabbing. I should have listed this in the first question, but any thoughts based on the total list?

Double up on Regular Sicarans to make use of the Primarch's buffs.

 

 

I was thinking of using the buff on the land raiders.

[Ishagu]

Fair enough, that can work.

I just find the sheer volume of quality dakka a standard Sicaran in conjunction with Tank Hunters puts out. Makes them really effective at clearing av12 vehicles from the board, as well as chipping down anything up to and including av14.

 

The Venator will definitely be useful against Super Heavies you can definitely encounter at 2.5k. I just like redundancy in my lists and wouldn't really take a singular of anything with the exception of the Deredeo which functions as a superb AA platform.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Ishagu

[caladancid]

Fair enough, that can work.

I just find the sheer volume of quality dakka a standard Sicaran in conjunction with Tank Hunters puts out. Makes them really effective at clearing av12 vehicles from the board, as well as chipping down anything up to and including av14.

 

The Venator will definitely be useful against Super Heavies you can definitely encounter at 2.5k. I just like redundancy in my lists and wouldn't really take a singular of anything with the exception of the Deredeo which functions as a superb AA platform.

I totally agree about the Sicarans volume of fire. It's those super heavies that have me worried just like you said. I think it's a trade off in the list. If it was a 2k list I would have two Sicarans.

 

The other trade off is how few bodies I have at 2.5k.

[Terminus]

You could also run executioner predators instead, so at least multiple models are benefiting from the buff.

 

Also, Venators shut down Typhons. They won't be as helpful against a Knight.

 

Locutarus are indeed solid, it's hard to argue with jump pack honor guard. The pistol choice for them is interesting, as we just had a discussion on another thread about how useless plasma pistols are for their cost, and how even at 10 points only Ultramarines have any real potential to get good mileage out of them.

 

I know everyone is going for the flamers, but has anyone actually managed to really live the dream and hit a unit with 6 flamer templates out of deep strike? Seems like the risk of close encounters (even with the re-roll) is pretty high with the 8" of template, considering you want to be about ~3-4" away for optimal coverage? And then it's only S3. We may indeed have a use for the still overpriced plasma pistols in this unit, since they are effectively plasma guns for a turn. 2+ saves and vehicles are their primary issue, and giving them a one-time salvo of 6 plasma shots is actually not that bad. The re-roll deep strike should also make it relatively easy to land within 12" and in the rear arc of something.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Terminus

[caladancid]

You could also run executioner predators instead, so at least multiple models are benefiting from the buff.

 

Also, Venators shut down Typhons. They won't be as helpful against a Knight.

 

Locutarus are indeed solid, it's hard to argue with jump pack honor guard. The pistol choice for them is interesting, as we just had a discussion on another thread about how useless plasma pistols are for their cost, and how even at 10 points only Ultramarines have any real potential to get good mileage out of them.

 

I know everyone is going for the flamers, but has anyone actually managed to really live the dream and hit a unit with 6 flamer templates out of deep strike? Seems like the risk of close encounters (even with the re-roll) is pretty high with the 8" of template, considering you want to be about ~3-4" away for optimal coverage? And then it's only S3. We may indeed have a use for the still overpriced plasma pistols in this unit, since they are effectively plasma guns for a turn. 2+ saves and vehicles are their primary issue, and giving them a one-time salvo of 6 plasma shots is actually not that bad. The re-roll deep strike should also make it relatively easy to land within 12" and in the rear arc of something.

I have not lived that dream yet of 6 templates in one unit, but it is such a brilliant dream I intend on chasing it blindly until successful.

 

Predators could be nice for the buff, but it becomes a points issue. I think the various Sicarans are better for the points and I am comfortable with the buffs applying to the land raiders.

 

To some degree I don't want to chase the buffs on Guilliman and forget about everything else. There is a sweet spot where you are maximizing buffs while still making a diverse list, I don't know what that is. I think it is legit to use him for unlocking the suzerain as troops and then counting the buff as a bonus, as long as you can still use it.

[GreyCrow]

You could also run executioner predators instead, so at least multiple models are benefiting from the buff.

 

Also, Venators shut down Typhons. They won't be as helpful against a Knight.

 

Locutarus are indeed solid, it's hard to argue with jump pack honor guard. The pistol choice for them is interesting, as we just had a discussion on another thread about how useless plasma pistols are for their cost, and how even at 10 points only Ultramarines have any real potential to get good mileage out of them.

 

I know everyone is going for the flamers, but has anyone actually managed to really live the dream and hit a unit with 6 flamer templates out of deep strike? Seems like the risk of close encounters (even with the re-roll) is pretty high with the 8" of template, considering you want to be about ~3-4" away for optimal coverage? And then it's only S3. We may indeed have a use for the still overpriced plasma pistols in this unit, since they are effectively plasma guns for a turn. 2+ saves and vehicles are their primary issue, and giving them a one-time salvo of 6 plasma shots is actually not that bad. The re-roll deep strike should also make it relatively easy to land within 12" and in the rear arc of something.

 

I guess the dream comes true when paired with a Damocles Command Rhino or a spam of nuncio-voxes, but I'm not sure you would take either specifically for that regard.

[caladancid]

I know dreads are typically not the best choices in lists, but has anyone tried to use Guilliman's buffs with multiple contemptors? In my UM lists, somehow I have ended up with lots of space in the Elites slots, so once FW comes out with the UM dreads I would like to try using them.