[HH1.0] 30k Ultramarines tactics

[Terminus]

Off the top of my head puppetswar and secretweapon have various tracked weapon systems. I can give you a full list on Tuesday when I come back home to my bookmarks.

[Ishagu]

 

 

Did my post of the cheap alternative get deleted ....?

the ebay sale you linked to was ended. So I wouldn't be surprised if a mod just removed that post.

 

Anyway what are people's thoughts on running twin malcadors with Guilliman? Seeing as a Mal is just 75 pts more than a fully kitted sicaran, maybe there's some opportunity there. Though it's probably isn't even something to consider until ~3000 points or so.

This looks great to me, and it would be easy to fit both tanks into a 2k list :-D

 

If the Malcador's rules had always been as they are now I'd have bought them instead of Sicarans!

Edited July 22, 2016 by Ishagu

[apologist]

Any thoughts on how to get the best from Hold Fast? I'm wondering if a Volkite Caliver support squad can make a decent anti-air option.

 

The BS2 rule on snap shots raises a couple of questions - can the squad get to BS3 snap shots with a cognis-signum, or am I missing a clause somewhere? It doesn't feel like they should be able to, but nice if they can.

 

Any way of getting interceptor on the unit you can think of?

[IronDrake28]

Any thoughts on how to get the best from Hold Fast? I'm wondering if a Volkite Caliver support squad can make a decent anti-air option.

 

The BS2 rule on snap shots raises a couple of questions - can the squad get to BS3 snap shots with a cognis-signum, or am I missing a clause somewhere? It doesn't feel like they should be able to, but nice if they can.

 

Any way of getting interceptor on the unit you can think of?

 

Snap Shots are set at BS1 (or 2 in this case) so they can't be modified by, say, +1 to BS.

 

The Augury Scanner and Cognis-Signum give Interceptor against units within 18". Other than that I don't know.

[Runefyre]

Guilliman can grant full interceptor, though it's not generally the best use of that special rule. Tank Hunters is generally the best option imo.

[apologist]

 

Snap Shots are set at BS1 (or 2 in this case) so they can't be modified by, say, +1 to BS.

 

Ta – I thought that seemed a bit weird. It was the wording in the Hold Fast rule that made me look twice.

 

For anyone interested in running a Logos Lectora list, I'm finding the updated rules have given my Logos Lectora list more teeth; owing to the fact that infantry-heavy lists received a fairly substantial points drop. Still not super-competitive, but a nice boost if you want to run with lots of regular troops. 

 

It's particularly useful for defensive work: the option for situational counter-attack essentially gives you the same bonus as additional close combat weapons, which (if you had previously added them to lists), enables you to make savings across the army.

[Charlo]

I like the Logos - but like you said it's more fluff than power.

 

But this is the Heresy and that is the name of the game normally!

 

Cheap tacs in Rhinos do well painting the enemy for the big hitters to benefit from.

[apologist]

On that note, the Legion rules make multiple smaller units more attractive, while the main legion rules give a discount on larger squads. What do you find as the sweet spot for the troops in your army?

[Captain Idaho]

Been wondering this myself. I want a Breacher themed list which makes choices hard after forking out 800pts + on 2 20 strong units.

 

I guess; multiple Heavy Support and Tactical Support squads?

Edited September 7, 2016 by Captain Idaho

[apologist]

Breacher squads don't benefit as much from the large unit discount; you might consider fifteen-man units? They'll be large enough to do most of what you want, and save you points towards something else.

 

Smaller Breacher squads can also cluster around a Deredeo with an Atomantic Pavaise – a mutually beneficial relationship.

[Charlo]

Breachers really hit the sweet spot at 15 now.

 

Though even 10 man in Proteus got very attractive as a very mobile, resilient core.

[Captain Idaho]

I have considered 30 instead of 40 Breachers. It's a tough one though as the theme for Revenants of Amatura is eroded somewhat by less Breachers.

What do people consider a sweet spot of 15? It would save me lots of points!

[Charlo]

Because of the recent points drop but increase in individual models, 15 represents the new break even point.

 

A lot of anecdotal evidence too that people find that 15 with an Apothecary also means you survive long enough to achieve what you wanted them too - plus 3 special weapons etc.

[Terminus]

They don't hit "the sweet spot" at 15-strong, it's just they made going over 15 very unattractive by making the unit even MORE expensive than it was before. They weren't super awesome before the new book (I used the infiltrating, scouting, stealth, FNP version too, so the best that can be had), and they certainly aren't now that everything else became 50-75 points cheaper.

 

If there is a "sweet spot" for them to hit, it's in Zone Mortalis, where the 10-man discount is very relevant, and they also have a new Rite that improves their invulnerable saves.

 

I think they should have given them something more... maybe letting them re-roll all saves instead of just armor vs. templates/blasts?  Though that would make that 4++ shield wall brutal, lol!

[Captain Idaho]

15 models is slightly more expensive per model than 20 but I think I will think about changing things.

[Captain Idaho]

Is it worth revisiting the Logos Lectora in light of the new book changes?

 

If infantry is a more prominent feature in the lists of players, running an infantry heavy list ourselves might not be so bad?

 

I have some ideas, but am working. Be right back :)

[Ishagu]

Logos is a bit better now due to infantry cost reduction but I still prefer the standard force org or Primarch's Chosen, personally.

[apologist]

I have considered 30 instead of 40 Breachers. It's a tough one though as the theme for Revenants of Amatura is eroded somewhat by less Breachers.

What do people consider a sweet spot of 15? It would save me lots of points!

Take a third unit - 45 is better than 40(!) - and gets you one requisite for Logos Lectora.

[Captain Idaho]

That's a better idea. 3 units might be a cunning little split of resources.

 

Theme theme theme.

[Ishagu]

Yeah, I think the Logos isn't a far stretch for you considering the list you want to run :-)

[Captain Idaho]

It's that 2nd HQ that's annoying to find points for. Even just 95pts for a minimum MoS.

[apologist]

Owing to the Ultramarine Legion rules, I find quantity more attractive than quality of HQs in a Logos Lectora list. Rather than a tooled-up Praetor, consider going for a Centurion Delegatus and a Master of Signals (fulfilling the minimum prerequisites for the Logos Lectora), both equipped fairly lightly and defensively (I take artificer armour on both, and give a Legatine Axe and boarding shield to the Delegatus).

 

That keeps them cheap and fairly survivable. They can be attached to your bigger infantry units; both for protection and to improve LD for the unit. The points saved can either go towards more standard troops, or a third HQ that is aimed at enhancing the infantry – a Chaplain to give you some teeth in assault, or a Herald for further defensiveness.

 

Of course, a bare bones Centurion is also an option; simply to ameliorate the risk of Rigid Chain of Command. 

 

+++

 

In terms of your themed list, Captain Idaho, you can get three 15-man units of Breachers with power swords (each including a sergeant with artificer armour), three Deredeos with Anvilus Autocannons and Atomantic Pavaises, a Delegatus with artificer armour and boarding shield, and a Master of Signal with artificer armour for a snip under 2000pts.

 

It's not going to be hugely terrifying, but very, very cool! :)

A great basis to add to, as well. 

Edited September 8, 2016 by Apologist

[Captain Idaho]

I intend a full reply but I like your thinking.

 

Just remember the Revenants of Armatura favour Vindicators ;)

[Charlo]

The breacher power swords that FW have coming out are purely amazing too. Eve vets will struggle against Breachers with counter attack and power swords.

[Captain Idaho]

Actually I've not heard the rumour!