[HH1.0] 30k Ultramarines tactics

[Terminus]

Breachers with power swords are truly an awful overpriced crap unit, but they will look cool at least.

[Charlo]

Breachers with power swords are truly an awful overpriced crap unit, but they will look cool at least.

 

I mean, they're expensive sure and against WAAC lists (which yes, the Tactica threads are for to an extent) they won't bring their points back too often - but hot damn will they be awesome and could be used well.

[Terminus]

I'm sorry but no, the tacticas on this page are far from WAAC, and it's insulting to suggest that. We have a pretty level-headed community and you don't see anyone spamming quad mortars and vindicators in every slot.

 

We do however discuss what is effective, and in this case Breachers with swords are absolutely awful. They only have one attack base so their impact is low. They have negatives to charge so will probably always be getting charged instead. And if by some miracle they win a combat they get negatives to sweeping as well. Bolter breachers are far more dangerous than sword breachers, and they don't have to pay extra points for the privilege. Even if Suzerain didn't exist, there is no place for this unit on the table outside of a diorama.

[Charlo]

Well, I certainly didn't mean WAAC as an insult - I more meant it as "well why take this unit, when you can take this more effective one for less points?" only on a Base level. I love the Heresy community here and didn't mean it as an insult at all...

 

In terms of having counter attack from logos they will get two attacks each when charged and negate the opponents bonus... So something to be had there I suppose.

[Captain Idaho]

Cool factor for me.

 

A unit of 20 would get 9 with power swords, 15 get 6 or so.

[shandwen]

I built two power swords in my 12 man unit (12 man as the boarding shield upgrade pack only comes with 6... and I can't bring myself to buy another one for three more guys).

[Captain Idaho]

Regarding 2+ HQs; do people consider Ultramarines an army that absolutely must do this owing to the Legion rules? In 40K I generally felt that I didn't need to worry about my Chapter Master taking it in the chest.

 

My plan is to take 10 Cataphracti Terminators with 2 plasma blastets and a couple combi plasmas, alongside an Apothecary, so a single HQ in that lot should be okay I felt.

[apologist]

Taking only one HQ and losing it is game-changing, particularly for an infantry-heavy force, as it can result in lots of units becoming ineffective for at least a turn. On top of that, in VP games, you end up giving up one for the kill, one because your lone HQ is the Warlord, and a third because of the Rigid Chain of Command rule – all potentially to a single shot in 30k, which has lots of stuff that can wipe out an HQ in fairly short order.

 

You can ameliorate the first part by adding independent characters (like apothecaries) to units – that's a common upgrade anyway, so it's really just a synergistic bonus that it helps to protect against Rigid Chain of Command. However, the underlying problem of just having one HQ is particularly bad for Ultramarines.

 

Personally, I use a general rule of one HQ per 1000pts. Of course, there are lots of advantages to HQs anyway, depending on the sort of force you want. Having two or three tooled-up high-level HQs will reduce the points available for other stuff, but they will bring more tabletop utility. It's why a Master of Signals is almost always useful, for example – there are few games where their barrage won't come in handy at some point or other. Conversely, a bare-bones Centurion is 50pts. If you're struggling for points, he can be made the Warlord and kept at the back for insurance while your Cataphractii HQ rampages safely. :)

Edited September 9, 2016 by Apologist

[Lord Asvaldir]

Apothecaries are not independent characters so that won't help with the pinning tests should your warlord die. Only choice really to avoid that is having multiple HQs. 

[Terminus]

Or play them as shattered legions for all the benefits and none of the drawbacks.

[Runefyre]

But then non of your non-scoring units can't deny, which is huge.

 

There's give and take.

[Ishagu]

If your only HQ is Roboute Guilliman then you'll have nothing to worry about :-D

[Runefyre]

If your only HQ is Roboute Guilliman then you'll have nothing to worry about :-D

True that!

[exsanguis]

How do Ultramarines go with Armoured Breakthrough?

 

I've still got a bunch of left over Forge World UM torso and helmet upgrade packs (enough for 30 marines I think), and was thinking a B@C set before they disappear might be a good way to put them to use. Here's what I came up with:

 

Master of Armour - Sicaran with AC, Lascannons, Dozer Blade, HKM (Warlord)

Primus Medicae - Jump Pack, AA, Refractor Field, Legatine Axe, Melta Bombs (Goes with Locutarus)

 

Predator - Lascannons

Predator - Lascannons

Predator - Lascannons

Predator - Lascannons

 

Locutarus x10 - 2x Plasma Pistols, Strike Leader with Combat Shield and Power Fist

 

Veterans x10 - Marksmen, Vexilla, 2x Plasma Guns, Rhino, Sgt with AA, Power Axe, Combi-weapon

Veterans x10 - Marksmen, Vexilla, 2x Plasma Guns, Rhino, Sgt with AA, Power Axe, Combi-weapon

Veterans x10 - Marksmen, Vexilla, 2x Plasma Guns, Rhino, Sgt with AA, Power Axe, Combi-weapon

 

Vindicator - LDA, Dozer Blade

Sicaran Venator - Dozer Blade

Sicaran Venator - Dozer Blade

 

2500 on the nose. Venators, Sicaran and LDA Vindicator should be able to look after the heavy duty AT duties, whilst the Predators pop open transports for the Veterans and Locutarus. I assume Locutarus are OK for use with this RoW as they are Jump Infantry?

[Terminus]

If spamming units, Guilleman seems appropriate with his special rules. It also gives the army a counterassault element. Jump infantry are still infantry so need a tank transport in this Rite.

[exsanguis]

Hmmmm...how to fit the big man into this list though? Dropping the Locutarus and Medicae only saves me about 500 points.

 

I've never used a Primarch before except Mortarion, and he doesn't need an assault transport. I imagine Roubute does? Especially if he's going with Suzerains.

[shandwen]

Hmmmm...how to fit the big man into this list though? Dropping the Locutarus and Medicae only saves me about 500 points.

 

I've never used a Primarch before except Mortarion, and he doesn't need an assault transport. I imagine Roubute does? Especially if he's going with Suzerains.

You might be able to get away with "just" a land raider. Spartans are spammed, but as long as your transport doesn't make a charge towards the enemy lines early you should have the ability to survive...

[Ishagu]

A normal Landraider is fine for Guilliman and Suzerains :-)

[exsanguis]

For some reason I had it in my head that the Suzerains were bulky. Don't ask me why.

 

I will have to re-think this list then, especially if Locutarus are still considered "Infantry" for the purpose of needing a ride.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I don't see how jump infantry are considered infantry for the purposes of a RoW where all infantry must be embarked on transports. In addition, jump infantry can't even be transported on any sort of legion tank, since only transports that specifically state in their rules that they can carry jump infantry are permitted to do so. If jump infantry were considered infantry in this case, I think your only choice would be a thunderhawk for transporting them which is ridiculous. 

[Terminus]

Jump infantry are infantry. All infantry must be in transports.

 

No need to get all mad about it, this particular rite makes jump infantry difficult/impossible to include.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Terminus

[shandwen]

You moght be able to take them in an assault ram... it mihht be considered a tank... I can't quite remember if it is.

[Terminus]

I had initially mentioned the Caestus, but edited out because I couldn't recall the answer to that question, and the stupid iTunes book lacks the rules for its suspension harness thing. I think it can transport them but not 100% sure.

[Slips]

All the Caestus' Misericorde says is that it can carry Bulky for 1 slot

[Lord Asvaldir]

Jump infantry are infantry. All infantry must be in transports.

 

No need to get all mad about it, this particular rite makes jump infantry difficult/impossible to include.

 

I'm not mad about it, I play night lords so it's not like armored breakthrough is a rite I'd run, but I'm just not sure that you are correct. Jump infantry are a separate unit type like bikes and MCs, when a rule states infantry to me that means just infantry, not jump or jetpack infantry. Is there some rule I'm missing that proves jump infantry are treated as infantry would be in this case?