[HH1.0] 30k Ultramarines tactics

[Terminus]

Yes, you are missing the BIG BOLDED PARAGRAPH at the very beginning of the rules for Jump Infantry:

 

 

 

Jump units are equipped with jump packs, wings, teleport devices or other means of moving quickly over short distances. Unlike most other unit type categories, ‘Jump’ is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you’ll find it occurs before another category – commonly Infantry, sometimes Monstrous Creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things. Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type. Jump Infantry would, for example, follow the rules for Jump units and Infantry.

[Charlo]

All the Caestus' Misericorde says is that it can carry Bulky for 1 slot

Aye but I believe the rules for jump infantry state they cannot be transported unless specifically stated - annoyingly.

 

Unless that was your point :P

[exsanguis]

 

Yes, you are missing the BIG BOLDED PARAGRAPH at the very beginning of the rules for Jump Infantry:

 

 

 

Jump units are equipped with jump packs, wings, teleport devices or other means of moving quickly over short distances. Unlike most other unit type categories, ‘Jump’ is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you’ll find it occurs before another category – commonly Infantry, sometimes Monstrous Creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things. Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type. Jump Infantry would, for example, follow the rules for Jump units and Infantry.

 

 

Well damn, nice way to rain on the Locutarus' parade!

 

Looks like I will have to do the whole Suzerain & Rowboat in a Land Raider thing :( Not very unique =[

[Lord Asvaldir]

 

Yes, you are missing the BIG BOLDED PARAGRAPH at the very beginning of the rules for Jump Infantry:

 

 

 

Jump units are equipped with jump packs, wings, teleport devices or other means of moving quickly over short distances. Unlike most other unit type categories, ‘Jump’ is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you’ll find it occurs before another category – commonly Infantry, sometimes Monstrous Creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things. Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type. Jump Infantry would, for example, follow the rules for Jump units and Infantry.

 

 

Glad to have that sorted out, bit of a bummer though for any rites that require all infantry to be in transports, basically means you can't take jump infantry in those rites. 

[Terminus]

Makes perfect sense, Rites that have transport requirements usually represent fast moving forces. Jump packs are not a method of conveyance, they are for short tactical jumps not flying around like Sanguinius.

[Aarant]

What are people's views on Locutarus I ran them the other day with relatively good success, ran them with hand flamers 1 on the squad leader and 1 on the unit, they generated decent wounds, but the cost seemed high to run them.

[Reyner]

So with around 500 points to spend in a Primarchs Chosen 2k Ultramarine list that roughly consists of: Guilliman, Suzerains in a Raider, 1 or 2 Veteran Squads in Rhinos and a Chaplain what would be a decent choice of unit to throw in for Guilliman to buff - I could go with a couple of Sicarans but they seem a bit boring these days. 

[Ishagu]

3 Deredeos with objective secured? :-D

[Captain Idaho]

How do people rate Heavy Support squads? With Interlocking Tactics they are fairly efficient. Even S4 blasts will hurt infantry blobs too close together with rerolls to 1, whilst Krak become quite a nasty variant.

 

I considered Autocannons too as they look great and 10 S7 attacks is nothing to be sneezed.

 

Now, major problem with having even just these 2 units in the army means only a single heavy support choice in the army. A single Deredeo?

 

But then we don't have something fun like a pair of Vindicators!

 

Solutions? Flakk missiles? A Logos Lectora granting BS2 snap fire?

 

Is it really that bad a problem? We got Tarantulas.

[shandwen]

Heavy support squads just seem to easy to kill. Nearly everyone takes plenty of stuff to kill tac marines, and that same stuff will murderlate heavy support squads.

That being said I do have a squad with volkite culverns for fun.

[Captain Idaho]

I considered this a potential issue. I think getting round this is possible though with clever army list structure.

 

As an example; I considered a Breacher themed list using Battle of Calth models as a cheap template. It will be an Ultramarines infantry horde really, complete with 10 Cataphracti Terminators. I considered such a structure to ensure that target selection will be favourable to support squads.

[shandwen]

Honestly I think the power armor spam can work well: as long as the iron warriors don't show up with ironfire or whatever the artillery inferno list is called.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah there are a few nasty weapons that ruin the army.

 

Still, Wave after wave of my own men should be sufficient to carry the day.

[apologist]

Heavy Support squads are cool to see, so if for no other reason, I'd encourage you to take them. In terms of making them work, long-range is probably your best defensive tactic. Full squads of lascannons and missile launchers provide good anti-tank and fair anti-aircraft; and in most of the 30k lists I see, they're not going to be overkill – you'll likely run out of game (or marines!) before you run out of targets.

 

Hardened Armour is an interesting upgrade that might help situationally, but you're probably better off getting more marines for the points. In an Ultramarines army, I'd consider adding a Master of Signals to the squad to boost their BS. I'd also consider fortifications – even an aegis line can be useful to protect your troops. With the Logos Lectora, you can go to ground behind it for the huge cover save, then use Hold Fast to double your snap shot threat. 

[Ishagu]

Heavy Support squads are great if you add a Siege Breaker. 20 Autocannon shots with Tank Hunter, or 10 missiles is very strong.

[Captain Idaho]

Here's my Ultramarines 2500pts list for anyone interested:

 

Praetor - Cataphracti armour, Master Crafted Paragon blade, combi plasma and digital lasers

 

Master of Signals - Artificer armour, bolt pistol and Legatine axe

 

10 Cataphracti Terminators - 2x powerfists, 1 chainfist, 3 plasma combis, 2 plasma blasters and Sergeant with Chainfist

 

3x Apothecaries - 1 with augury scanner (goes with Cataphracti for funsies)

 

Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought - assault cannon

 

Legion Tactical squad - x15 - vexilla and Sergeant with Articifer armour and powerfist

 

Breacher squad x15 - x9 power swords and Sergeant with Articifer armour and powerfist

 

Breacher squad x15 - x9 power swords and Sergeant with Articifer armour and powerfist

 

Heavy Suppport squad - missile launchers

 

Heavy Support squad - Autocannons

 

Vindicator squadron - 2x Vindicators, 1 PotMS

Now; looking at it from an Ultramarines perspective, the Heavy Support squads really benefit from the plinking bolter fire of the Breachers etc. However, should it be considered I drop one for another Vindicator with Laser Destroyer?

 

The Master of Signals is with the Bolters but perhaps make him cheaper and hang back? The idea was a unit to take objectives and Fury of the Legion 24" away, using his +1 BS and Interlocking Tactics, then in between turns I can fire a one shot Bombardment. He's armed to give them a chance in close combat.

 

If with a Heavy Support squad he'd have to target the same unit with the Bombardment which could be wasteful.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Captain Idaho

[Charlo]

Looks cool! 

 

only minor gripes:

 

Are the terminators walking?

 

Apothecary's cannot join Termnator units.

[Captain Idaho]

Forgot about the Apothecary. I thought the changes meant it could join infantry?

 

I've already aspired to change the list round. Might just drop the Logos Lectora and use a Primaris Medicae instead as 2nd HQ.

 

I'm kinda broken in that I can't help changing it.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Captain Idaho

[Runefyre]

Actually this list could work well. I would just recommend trying to fit some melta bombs on the any pa unit that can take it.

 

In a terrain heavy battlefield (i.e. the best kind) you'll have loads of cover and LOS blocking terrain to use to your advantage.

 

Plus that's alot of bodies with FnP to kill. Remember pa may not be super durable these days, but boy are they worlds more survivable than just about any other basic (infantry type) troops choice (barring maybe necrons).

 

And don't let negativity get you down from bringing the units you want to. I've seen foot-slogging cataphractii lists take on Reaver Titans and come out (barely) on top.

[Ishagu]

Idaho, I'm still adamant you should run all the Cataphractii as Fulmentarus and drop one of the heavy weapon squads!

 

Apothecaries can join infantry units not wearing Terminator armour. You'd need a Primus Medicae in their case. He's actually a good addition and has two wounds.

 

Just imagine that big Terminator unit advancing forward, and as it does it unleashes 20 Krak missiles at targets.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Ishagu

[Terminus]

I think Fulmentarus work better with autocannons than missile launchers. The launchers are just too expensive. The autocannons have more application against transports and fliers, especially in Logos for BS2 snap shots, while benefiting more from tank hunter due to rate of fire.  Also helps you not look like a Perturabo-wannabe. :D

 

Runefyre, on 16 Sept 2016 - 12:33 PM, said:

    Actually this list could work well. I would just recommend trying to fit some melta bombs on the any pa unit that can take it.

    In a terrain heavy battlefield (i.e. the best kind) you'll have loads of cover and LOS blocking terrain to use to your advantage.

    Plus that's alot of bodies with FnP to kill. Remember pa may not be super durable these days, but boy are they worlds more survivable than just about any other basic (infantry type) troops choice (barring maybe necrons).

    And don't let negativity get you down from bringing the units you want to. I've seen foot-slogging cataphractii lists take on Reaver Titans and come out (barely) on top.

 

The terrain would be more of a drawback than anything, how are you planning on navigating through it? All the opponent has to do is get to the objectives and sit on them while the list fails to threaten him from range or ever reach him in melee. You don't even have to fire a shot to win.  It would be fine for a narrative and/or some kind of defender scenario, but for pick-up games?  I mean sure, dice have their vagaries, and single Grot could bring down squads of Space Marines, but if someone were to ask you "What should I bring against a Reaver", your answer probably won't be "slowly walk Cataphracts towards him and hope he rolls lots of 1s".

Edited September 16, 2016 by Terminus

[Runefyre]

Have you ever fielded Fulmentarus? I have and can attest to the effectiveness of CML's. Sure they're expensive but they'll bring down at least their points in enemy heavy units each time I bring them.

 

I should note that the reaver had dual gatling blasters, so its was loads of ap3. That makes for a better matchup.

 

And I'm not sure how big of a table you play on, but on a standard 4X6 it'll only take two turns to get to midfield objectives.

 

Plus the terrain will be hindering your enemy just as much as you (it's not like vehicles have an easier time negotiating terrain) and it will ensure the bulk of your already numerous force is far more resilient than expected.

 

and yeah I know it's not gonna win tournaments, but you can't just say something's not gonna work just because Idaho doesn't want to play cookie cutter tactics.

[Ishagu]

CML are definitely the option of choice. The unit is actually very effective in the 30k environment.

[Terminus]

LOL, trust me, I am very well aware of the effectiveness of Cyclone Missile Launchers, because I run a similar/better unit than Fulmentarus for several hundred points less in Siege Tyrants. 

 

Yes, terrain would equally hinder an equally bad list without transports or mobility of any sort.  These guys can't run or have negatives to run distance, move a random distance through difficult terrain or otherwise crawl 6" per turn.  It will only take 2 turns if you DON'T have all that terrain you crave in the way.  Are you going to lock yourself into deploying directly across the mid-field objectives?  There may be only 2 feet between your deployment zones, but there is 6 feet of table-length too.  And you are incorrect, vehicles CAN navigate difficult terrain a lot better, they just drive over it. They can move 12" and then go flat out.  They cover 3x the distance you do in the same amount of time, provided they aren't fast.

 

I don't think there are any particular cookie-cutter tactics to speak of with Ultramarines.  Having a way to move around the table is now considered cookie-cutter? 

[Ishagu]

Siege Tyrants are not better than Fulmentarus.

 

A big squad of Fulmentarus has Tank Hunting, -1 to enemy cover and night vision!