Alternate Legion - The Scions Hospitalier

[Nomus Sardauk]

 

Dude

+1

+2

[bluntblade]

I love what you've done with the Depthstrider helmets

[~Drakzilla~]

Thanks you guys! If you have any suggestions or things you'd like to see I'd like to hear them.

 

@bluntblade: Glad you like them! I went with the astronaut look but I also got inspired by the dome "heads" of the Castellax battle automata.

[bluntblade]

One thing I'd suggest is making any additional melee weapons swords or axes. While some of the Scions wield glaives, they're not predominant.

 

And please could we get a Knight or Titan leg right behind the Scions on the left?

[~Drakzilla~]

I'll probably be adding more ranged weapons over melee, but thanks for the tip. Do we want some of the Scions to be firing their guns, or just advancing?

 

Also, adding a leg on the left might be tricky, since it's kind of crowded over there. Plus I'm not sure how good a disembodied leg would look. However I could shift over the warlord titan in the background to make room, or just put it on the right side. I'll have to try it out and see.

[Slips]

http://i.imgur.com/UrCZp6N.gif

[bluntblade]

I'd say firing guns, it'll add plenty of drama.

 

Shifting the Warlord might be the best way to do it. Perhaps have a Knight rather than a Titan, so you can just fit the head and a weapon in frame.

 

Also, you know how some Thousand Sons take up hobbies like viniculture and White Scars write poetry? Well, Scions indulge in science projects. And you thought the Thousand Sons were nerds

Edited November 27, 2016 by bluntblade

[simison]

So, need some help with that RoW idea?

[Slips]

Unless this version is fine:

 

 

then, yes.

 

SNIP

A combination of that and the Brethren of Iron RoW seems like a good fit. I have some ideas, but its kinda late, so they may have to wait until the morning.

Ok. Now that I am mostly awake again 

 

So the three main things that you seem to want are greater access to both Dreadnoughts and Automata as well as a focus on the Depthstriders as the main Legion contingent. Would that be fair to say? Working from those points I think some rules akin to the following:

 

Effects

• Techmarines may join Automata units in a manner like Apothecaries (may not leave during the battle). All Automata units that are joined by a Techmarine/Praevian have the Implacable Advance rule, so long as the Techmarine/Praevian is still alive.
• Legion Dreadnought and Legion Contemptor Talons are a Troops choice, but are no longer an Elites choice.
• Characters can take Cortex Controllers* & Cortex Designators for +15pts & +5pts.
• Teleport Transponders upgrade option for Depthstriders, Dreadnoughts and Independent Characters for +15pts/unit and +10pts/dreadnought or character.

Restrictions

• Depthstriders must be taken as Compulsory Troops choices.
• May not take more Legion Dreadnought and Legion Contemptor Talons than Techmarines.
• Pionus (Wraith) is the only LoW option available to this RoW.
• No Automata units may take the Paragon of Metal rule.
• May not take Allies or Fortifications.

 

*The Optional Heavy Support box is replaced with:

• Optional Units: For each cortex controller present in a Space Marine detachment, 0-1 of the following units from the Mechanicum Taghmata army list become available: Arlatax Battle- automata Maniple, Domitar Battle- automata Maniple, Castellax Battle- automata Maniple, Vorax Battle-automata Maniple. Arlatax and Domitar Battle- automata Maniples are taken as an Elites choice; Castellax Battle- automata Maniples are taken as a Troops choice; and Vorax Battle-automata Maniples are taken as a Fast Attack choice.

I know it is more restrictive (and less powerful ) than the RoW you posted Slips (and also more so than the RoWs I used for inspiration). But I think that it is pretty fair overall as it gives you access to Castellax and Dreadnoughts as scoring troops choices. It also doesn't give away VPs for each killed dread like the Fury of the Ancients RoW and lets you make Techmarines into mini Praevians for added fun  One small query I have though is whether you intended the Dreadnoughts to be only 'box' dreads or Contemptors as well?

 

 

On an unrelated note I just realised that we will need to write up what rules pass over to a Praevian's Bodyguard unit via the Legion Inductees rule...

 

 

[simison]

Whoops, forgot about that. Hmmmm, I'll trust that Grifft knows what he's doing and approve the rules at least. It still needs a fluff paragraph, as does Extraction Force Primus. Grifft, I can't remember, did we go over the Extraction RoW, or were we focused on the "Undead Scion" RoW?

 

Now, I know that a relic was created, and I'll hunt that down and go over it next. As soon as the RoWs and relic are handled, we can move onto the Phantoms.

[Slips]

I'm still foggy on if I ever did make a relic O_o

[Doctor Perils]

I'm still foggy on if I ever did make a relic O_o

Hadn't we been discussing some kind of sonic or cavitation effect weapon?

[bluntblade]

You had. I don't remember where it went

[Slips]

It might actually be in this very thread.

[simison]

It's on page 10.

[Grifftofer]

I remember writing some ideas down for a mechadentrite array with a focus on biology rather than fixing things. That should be in here somewhere too.

[Grifftofer]

Whoops, forgot about that. Hmmmm, I'll trust that Grifft knows what he's doing and approve the rules at least. It still needs a fluff paragraph, as does Extraction Force Primus. Grifft, I can't remember, did we go over the Extraction RoW, or were we focused on the "Undead Scion" RoW?

 

Now, I know that a relic was created, and I'll hunt that down and go over it next. As soon as the RoWs and relic are handled, we can move onto the Phantoms.

I don't recall us going over anything of the Scions stuff yet. We may have started with the Legion rules, but not much else because I had some comments on the wargear when we got to that. The issue is I'm not certain if the discussion I'm recalling on the legion astartes rules is from when the rules were first being introduced or not...

[simison]

 

Whoops, forgot about that. Hmmmm, I'll trust that Grifft knows what he's doing and approve the rules at least. It still needs a fluff paragraph, as does Extraction Force Primus. Grifft, I can't remember, did we go over the Extraction RoW, or were we focused on the "Undead Scion" RoW?

 

Now, I know that a relic was created, and I'll hunt that down and go over it next. As soon as the RoWs and relic are handled, we can move onto the Phantoms.

I don't recall us going over anything of the Scions stuff yet. We may have started with the Legion rules, but not much else because I had some comments on the wargear when we got to that. The issue is I'm not certain if the discussion I'm recalling on the legion astartes rules is from when the rules were first being introduced or not...

 

 

After going through what feels like a dozen pages in the Book 1 thread, I can say that we cleared the Legion Tactics, but the moment I did a slot check, we divulged into the RoW discussion. So, we've done this newest RoW and the Legion Tactics. Everything else needs done, which takes us to wargear next. 

 

And remembering Slips' warning that nothing has been touched in a long while, let's start with the Obscura-pattern Jump pack. 

 

Comparison Cost: Jump Pack for an Independent Character (20)

 

Special Rules

• Ignores Zone Mortalis Handicaps for Jump Infantry: ???
• Able to use in both Movement and Assault Phases: Base cost x 2
• Shrouded upon Deep Strike: 5 points

 

Total: 45? points

 

Yeah, this thing is incredibly useful, and I don't even understand the Zone Mortalis thing. What's that?

[Grifftofer]

In Zone Mortalis Jump Infantry that move further than 6" take dangerous terrain checks. Avoiding that basically allows them to move at full speed without risk. Actually looking at the Legion Rules once more and reading the Move Through Cover rule properly it looks like this won't actually provide any benefit to the Scions at all. The ignoring the dangerous terrain effect is already included in them automatically passing dangerous terrain checks from move through cover.

 

I also think that your suggested price is a bit high. at 45 points it would be as expensive as a Legion Jetbike. To my mind it should probably be somewhere between the Legion Bike and Jetbike as it doesn't provide the offensive or defensive (weapons/+1T) benefits of those options. I'd personally rate it at about 30 points which makes it between the two options above and still +50% over the regular jump pack.

[simison]

In Zone Mortalis Jump Infantry that move further than 6" take dangerous terrain checks. Avoiding that basically allows them to move at full speed without risk. Actually looking at the Legion Rules once more and reading the Move Through Cover rule properly it looks like this won't actually provide any benefit to the Scions at all. The ignoring the dangerous terrain effect is already included in them automatically passing dangerous terrain checks from move through cover.

 

I also think that your suggested price is a bit high. at 45 points it would be as expensive as a Legion Jetbike. To my mind it should probably be somewhere between the Legion Bike and Jetbike as it doesn't provide the offensive or defensive (weapons/+1T) benefits of those options. I'd personally rate it at about 30 points which makes it between the two options above and still +50% over the regular jump pack.

 

Then we can remove that first part from the jump pack. 

 

Except you can use it in two phases instead of the standard one, which is why I doubled the cost for that benefit. I can be persuaded to reduce it to 35 points as it is right now, but I still think that it's much better than a standard jump pack. 

 

Out of curiosity, why does it give Shrouded on the Deep Strike?

[Doctor Perils]

 

 

In Zone Mortalis Jump Infantry that move further than 6" take dangerous terrain checks. Avoiding that basically allows them to move at full speed without risk. Actually looking at the Legion Rules once more and reading the Move Through Cover rule properly it looks like this won't actually provide any benefit to the Scions at all. The ignoring the dangerous terrain effect is already included in them automatically passing dangerous terrain checks from move through cover.

 

I also think that your suggested price is a bit high. at 45 points it would be as expensive as a Legion Jetbike. To my mind it should probably be somewhere between the Legion Bike and Jetbike as it doesn't provide the offensive or defensive (weapons/+1T) benefits of those options. I'd personally rate it at about 30 points which makes it between the two options above and still +50% over the regular jump pack.

Then we can remove that first part from the jump pack.

 

Except you can use it in two phases instead of the standard one, which is why I doubled the cost for that benefit. I can be persuaded to reduce it to 35 points as it is right now, but I still think that it's much better than a standard jump pack.

 

Out of curiosity, why does it give Shrouded on the Deep Strike?

It may be much better then the jumppack, but ruleswise, a bike is essentially a jumppack that can be used in both phases, gives relentless and a combi-bolter, plus a toughness boost (and jink?) - the only place a bike loses out is that they can't ds and are even more bulky.

[simison]

Fair point, though I'm still curious about the fluff reason for the Turn 1 Deep Strike-Shroud ability. How does 30 points sound, Slips?

 

Moving onto the Iona-Pattern Narthecium Array...oh boy.

 

Pricing Nartheciums has always been awkward since you can't buy the item solo, it has to come in a package deal, either an Apothecary or a Primus Medicae. I price FNP at 15 points, so I'll use that as a base idea. 

 

When the Iona-Pattern was first imagined, it allows rerollable FNP saves for a Primus, and it causes successful Poison/Fleshbane wounds to be rerolled for either Primus or Apothecary. I like how it distinguished between the two ranks, but the costs confuse me. It's just 10 points for the Primus, but 30 points for the Apothecary? Shouldn't that be the other way around? 

 

Also, now that I'm getting a better grasp on the Scions' rules, it occurs to me that they are one of the fastest infantry legions we have. Need to remember that when I write fluff for them. 

[bluntblade]

Surprised none of us have written them fighting beside the Halcyon Wardens yet, they'll complement each other very nicely.

[Slips]

Fair point, though I'm still curious about the fluff reason for the Turn 1 Deep Strike-Shroud ability. How does 30 points sound, Slips?

 

Moving onto the Iona-Pattern Narthecium Array...oh boy.

 

Pricing Nartheciums has always been awkward since you can't buy the item solo, it has to come in a package deal, either an Apothecary or a Primus Medicae. I price FNP at 15 points, so I'll use that as a base idea. 

 

When the Iona-Pattern was first imagined, it allows rerollable FNP saves for a Primus, and it causes successful Poison/Fleshbane wounds to be rerolled for either Primus or Apothecary. I like how it distinguished between the two ranks, but the costs confuse me. It's just 10 points for the Primus, but 30 points for the Apothecary? Shouldn't that be the other way around? 

 

Also, now that I'm getting a better grasp on the Scions' rules, it occurs to me that they are one of the fastest infantry legions we have. Need to remember that when I write fluff for them. 

Obscura Pack at 30 is fine since its a Jump Pack+

 

Primus Upgrade over a Basic Consul is also 45 Points now. So, for an Apothecary (45), he totals out at 75 pre upgrades.

 

A Primus is 105 Points Pre-Upgrades and is a Non-Compulsory HQ (unless otherwise states). I'd be totally ok with just making it a flat +30 regardless of who takes it. So, +75 for a Consul to take an Iona-Pattern.

 

Growing up in the Crushing Depth of a High-Gravity Ocean World does that to people :p

[bluntblade]

Just imagine the back flips a Scion does when he first discovers low gravity