[HH1.0] Mechanicum Tactica

[N1SB]

The isssue with having this fit cybernetica is that my single (allied detachment) heavy support choice would need to be an automata not the myrmidons. I just love the models too much to make that sacrifice haha

 

No worries, I totally noted you were going for a Blanche-inspired support force, thus the importance of modeling.  Only mentioned it as an interesting aside regarding the possibilities of Legio-specific Allied Detachments, something I only realised after checking your initial list.

 

 

Re: Techpriest Auxillia and additional Servo Automata

 

Because they're so cheap, if you have points to spare, you might as well go for the max allocation (4 additional).  This is just because I think your opponents will try to Blast the Knight Titan you're fixing and Scatter to hit this unit instead, so might as well take some spare parts once you allotted points to the rest of your list 1st, IMHO.

 

 

Re: Myrmidons with Photon Thrusters

 

This deserves a longer explanation because I actually bought 3 sets of Myrmidons just so I can have 3 of each type of weapon from the Myrmidon Destructors set of miniatures, so I've been experimenting with this a bit.  But the long story short is, Myrmidon Destructors only use certain weapons more points-effectively than other Mechanicum units:

 

Volkite Culverins and Irradiation Engine and EDIT - Graviton Imploder: these are where Myrmidon Destructors shine compared to other units/vehicles that can use the similar/same options IMHO.

 

Photon Thruster: the Krios Venators actually have weapons with similar functions (anti-Vehicle, anti-TEQ), but do it more points cost-effectively and with longer range and without fear of Gets Hot!  IMHO FW priced this way too high or had other considerations in mind.  This is the one I must unfortunately advise you against.

 

Conversion Beamer: Tech Priests Auxillia actually do this a little more points cost-effectively if you choose the Reductor specialty for them.

 

With so much interest in Myrmidon Destructor models in particular, from many ppl I think, I will further break this time when I have time before the New Years.

 

 

Re: Myrmidon Transport

 

I actually got away with footslogging Rad Engine Myrmidons by throwing other stuff at my opponent, but in retrospect that was sub-optimal and risky.  I would lose out on an extra round of shooting, which would usually kill enough points' worth of Marines to almost earn back the cost of a Triaros from just that turn, plus I suspect opponents had underestimated the Myrmidons before.

 

But as I said, I did get away with it, using cover, hiding behind my other Tanks and stuff, etc.  You probably can, too, and then maybe change things out later.

 

Y'know, now that I'm trying to explain it, Taghmata is really, really nuanced.  Don't be turned off or frustrated because it's way more fun than any other army I've ever played, and you'll discover that excitement too!  But it's so counter-intuitive at times.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Not 1 Step Backwards

[Withershadow]

Magos

2x Darkfire Castellax

Vultarax

Thanatar

 

That seems a pretty solid allied Cybernetica detachment than can cover a lot of bases.

[Luna707]

Man you are an angel Not 1 Step Backwards, thanks for all of the advice!

[Withershadow]

Disagree with assessment on graviton imploders. They are a short range salvo weapons so non-relentless Auxilia is literally the last place you want them. You also don't benefit from tank hunter with imploders. Conversion beamers on the other hand are a good option since S10 AP1 and tank hunter get along great, and you can just park them in cover to tank shots on T5 servitors.

 

Imploders are high fire rate, and on Myrmidons would be hitting and wounding their preferred targets on 2+ rerolling 1s. That's basically one AP2 wound per shot every time. They are the best weapon for Destroyers as long as you have a transport.

 

Irradiation cleansers used to be tied for best weapon but I kind of like a Macrocarid with a pair of cleansers and an imploders for 45 points more than 3 Myrmidons with the same guns. No need to buy separate transport and can actually transport another squad itself, while being super survivable and scoring in Reductor Matrix lists. Still, it's a solid weapon with a deceptively good range, and you can stick one in a unit to shore up its anti infantry defense.

 

If you don't have the points for transport and just want a fire platform, Volkites are best/cheapest option and again you have high rate of fire hitting/wounding on 2+ retooling 1s. Brutal.

 

Conversion beamers are better and cheaper on adepts, photon thrusters are done better by Darkfire Castellax, Krios Venators, or even bodyguard destructor Thallax.

 

So Imploders, Cleansers and Volkite are the best options for Destroyers, in that order, as far as I'm concerned.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

P.S. also thx @ Darius on reminder re: Transports.

 

 

No worries. Myrmidax are rightly feared so you wanna protect them till they get on target, if you're taking those shorter-range weapons. 

Also, follow up question, as I understand it techpreists may take servitors, how would you all lot those out?

 

Keep them cheap with servo-arms. They're bad as a combat unit, but as a repair crew they're quite nice. 

Additionally, if I chose not to bring transports in his list (my Iron Hands are kind of an armored spearhead, so I want to do something a bit different with the mech), how would you all suggest I kit out the myrmidons? Are photon thrusters worth it? Would they be fine foot slogging irradiation engines? 

 

Photon thrusters are not as good as grav imploders. You get more shots, and due to how multiple Immobilse results are resolved, you'll kill a vehicle faster and more reliably (grav rules also don't care about flare shields, which is an issue vs Solar Auxilia and Legion). Foot slogging is too slow and risks them getting picked off before they get in range. 

I actually got away with footslogging Rad Engine Myrmidons by throwing other stuff at my opponent, but in retrospect that was sub-optimal and risky.  I would lose out on an extra round of shooting, which would usually kill enough points' worth of Marines to almost earn back the cost of a Triaros from just that turn, plus I suspect opponents had underestimated the Myrmidons before.

 

You don't lose out on anything though. Grav imploders and irradiation engines are unlikely to be in range of anything Turn 1, unless they came to in drop pods/Outflanking etc. In which case, you want to be inside a Triaros anyway, so they're forced to kill it first (not easy given that its arguably tougher than a Land Raider). And if they're a gunline or mobile list kiting you, you want to have the mobility to move up into range. 

Magos

2x Darkfire Castellax

Vultarax

Thanatar

 

That seems a pretty solid allied Cybernetica detachment than can cover a lot of bases. 

 

Agreed. That's what I'd be taking as Allies if you do Cybernetica. Vultarax in particular is especially handy in the current 30k environment where mech lists dominate. 

Disagree with assessment on graviton imploders. They are a short range salvo weapons so non-relentless Auxilia is literally the last place you want them. You also don't benefit from tank hunter with imploders. Conversion beamers on the other hand are a good option since S10 AP1 and tank hunter get along great, and you can just park them in cover to tank shots on T5 servitors.

 

My issue with conversion beamers is they're only good Turn 1. By Turn 2, most armies have pushed up to be inside 48" from the unit, and S8 AP4 blasts aren't as scary (especially if they have flare shields). But yeah I agree, don't take grav imploders on Reductor Magi. Conversion beamer is king at nuking backfield stuff like Medusas or Scorpius Whirlwinds, which commonly don't move up. 

Irradiation cleansers used to be tied for best weapon but I kind of like a Macrocarid with a pair of cleansers and an imploders for 45 points more than 3 Myrmidons with the same guns. No need to buy separate transport and can actually transport another squad itself, while being super survivable and scoring in Reductor Matrix lists. Still, it's a solid weapon with a deceptively good range, and you can stick one in a unit to shore up its anti infantry defense. 

 

This is a very good point. Scoring tanks is one of the strongest aspects of Matrix of Ruin, and yeah Macroarid is a better platform with irradiation engines, plus it can carry your grav imploders into range (and you'll have four Heavy slots so still space for those Siege squadrons). 

[N1SB]

Man you are an angel Not 1 Step Backwards, thanks for all of the advice!

 

Actually, I am swayed on the above points regarding Graviton Imploders.  I think I was mistaken.

 

Please take note, I'm upgrading my recommendation and I agree with the others on Graviton Imploders.

 

That is of particular help to you, as from previous comments, you have more options with Graviton Imploder bits.  The other stuff is really harder to model, like trying to convert extra Rad Engines is really hard without looking like "oh I converted this because I can't get the bits".

 

EDIT - here, I did a quick Proof-of-Concept design, a rough mock-up of Myrmidons with easily accessible Graviton Imploder bits:

 

http://oi68.tinypic.com/eap3l3.jpg

 

"Guys, hey guys...GUYS!  Check it out, I'm MEGAMAN!"

 

This is way too hilarious not to bring to the tabletop.  The bits is actually from the Leviathan (Dreadnought) Grav-Flux Bombard ( https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-JP/Leviathan-Pattern-Siege-Dreadnought-Grav-Flux-Bombard ).  Now, most FW Dread bits come in multiple pieces for the joints and so on to give you maximum flexibility.  It happens the Grav-Flux Bombard gun itself is in 2 pieces because it's so big, a front and the back.  Here, I'm just using the front.  I'm sold on the visual alone.

 

 

Re: Rad Engines on Myrmidons vs. Macrocarid Explorators

 

I hear ya, which is why I actually field both with Rad Engines, in fact I transport my Myrmidons in Macrocarid Explorator (btw, that's probably putting too many MEQ-melting eggs in 1 basket, so I don't advise it).  My finding on the field is that those Rad Engines are still limited by being sponsons.

 

From experience on the tabletop, even though it's a Torrent weapon (which does allow for all sorts of options with Template positioning), it's not quite the same effect.  Unless your opponent is leaving his MEQs standing in a row out in the open or you have really sparse terrain, you rarely hit 1 unit with both sponsons.  It's still damaging, but there's a difference.

 

3 Myrmidons with Rad Engines can focus fire, and it's not just damage, it's utter denial.  You've seen this before, your opponent's counting on some Legion-specific hard counter unit or a Tactical Squad to grab that objective.  If you just damage, they can reinforce, adjust.  You utterly wipe them out and deny that hard counter, deny their scoring by killing the whole scoring unit...they don't even have that path to victory anymore.  Then they try to figure out how to make the remaining available VPs add up.

 

The point is, in my experience, Rad Engines are like a trap.  When it springs, don't even leave your opponent an out, because that kinda defeats the purpose.  1 is not quite enough, 2 can be, 3 is usually very sufficient.  But yeah, if you run the Ordo's Matrix of Ruin, you can score with the Macrocarid Explorator assuming there's not any Power Fists or Meltabombs in the endzone...but sadly there usually are.  I still try, though.

 

 

Re: Conversion Beamers

 

Yeah, very situational, but in my meta Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists are really popular and they like taking Fortifications for fluff.  Conversion Beamers are for immobile strongholds, and it turns out it's pretty easy to reach that 42" sweet spot by drawing diagonals.

 

I'm wondering, with the new shootier Knight Titans, if people like to put them in the back out of reach?  If so, I might make some Techpriest Auxillia just for that contingency.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Not 1 Step Backwards

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Out of their ranged options, the only ones I'd say are bad or at least sub-optimal are photon thruster and conversion beamer. Everything else is pretty much a matchup dependent question. For example, WE Inductarii are gonna wade through grav imploder with only a few casualties, but irradiation engines beat them (especially with Wall of Death). However, against Dreadnoughts or mech lists, irradiation engines are obviously useless, whereas grav-imploder is tasty as. And against an infantry horde, volkite culverin in a good sniping position (high cover or a Bunker/Bastion) is tasty as hell, even against Legion. 

 

I really feel Myrmidons of both types shine best in Zone Mortalis or urban warfare. Especially in ZM, because the volkite culverin gains Rending thus making it essentially an assault cannon with Deflegrate. Irradiation engines also shine there, due to the increased threat of melee and not caring about Hardened Armour at all due to AP3 and Ignores Cover. 

 

I really hope we get our Red Book updated in the future, with the Myrmidax unlocking Secutors and Destructors as Troops. I feel like that was a missed oppertunity with our current incarnation, as it would make Taghmata a lot more relevant. 

[N1SB]

Out of their ranged options, the only ones I'd say are bad or at least sub-optimal are photon thruster and conversion beamer. Everything else is pretty much a matchup dependent question. For example, WE Inductarii are gonna wade through grav imploder with only a few casualties, but irradiation engines beat them (especially with Wall of Death). However, against Dreadnoughts or mech lists, irradiation engines are obviously useless, whereas grav-imploder is tasty as. And against an infantry horde, volkite culverin in a good sniping position (high cover or a Bunker/Bastion) is tasty as hell, even against Legion. 

 

I agree, and with Grav Imploders, Terminators as well.  Legion players are so proud of their Legion-specific Terminators with Scythes and this and that, to say nothing of Primarchs.  I'm really glad that the question was raised and we had this discussion.  I'm trying to find a way to include Grav Imploder Myrmidons now.

[Withershadow]

That flux bombard looks hilarious. Getting a bunch of copies of the graviton imploders from the Macrocarid may have to be added to the list. I don't know what the rules are for posting this, but there is a Russian website that sells FW stuff and splits off weapons. They are most definitely recasts given the price but the bits look crisper than FW's stuff without being brittle like that dark resin garbage I see folks getting from most China guys.

 

I think troop Myrmidons would be too crazy. I could bring all 12 AND all my Venators? Yikes.

 

If fortifications are a problem, again I would put conversion beamer on Auxilia. I think they get wrecker as well as tank

Hunter? Or maybe I'm thinking when running with Ordo Reductor Magos.

[Tiger9gamer]

maybe it is just the meta I'm in but footslogging graviton imploder myrmadons work for me because usually my opponents bum rush me in turn 2-3, or they drop some terminators near my lines and my 18" range is just enough to see it do some damage. It's not the best  but it certainly does enough damage with all the rerolling the unit gets.

[N1SB]

That totally happens in my meta, too.  People who take Terminators often always use them to try to grab my home objective, so they're coming to me.

 

My concern is that the meta is still settling in.  I got away with a lot of stuff because people haven't found their groove yet.  I'm not sure that'll be the case much longer, so I'm starting to think about taking the Triaros, something I've been resistant to before myself, so I totally understand why we might all feel that way.

[LtDan]

Just starting my mech and trying to decide between tagamata, reductor and cybernetica. Big bots are as cool as but myrmidons are the models that won me over. Which do they fit in best with ? Thanks

[BassWave]

Anyone have any tips for running a tech thrall heavy army?

[Caillum]

Well, Tech-thralls aren't a game-winning unit, but they're very cheap and quite resilient. All the unit upgrades are a flat cost, which means they are much more efficient when taking 15 or 20 models to a unit, but as a Troops choice that should be taking and/or holding objectives, a few extra bodies really helps anyway.

 

IMHO, these are the mandatory upgrades:

- Carapace armour. Having a 4+ save goes a long way to protect them against the prevalence of bolters & bolt pistols (which would negate their flak armour).

- Rite of Pure Thought. Fearless is pretty rare in 30k, and these guys are meant to hold objectives, so it's worth losing Overwatch and Sweeping Advances for this (let's be real, they aren't winning combat).

 

The melee upgrades:

- Heavy chainblades. Makes them S6 AP4 in melee, which is actually half-decent! A lite version of World Eaters Inductii.

- Revenant Alchemistry. Goes hand-in-hand with the above. Hatred, Slow & Purposeful and increases their FNP to 5+. If they have RoPT (they should) then you don't lose a lot from S&P, Hatred makes those heavy chainblades hit more often, and FNP (5+) is a nice survival boost.

- Frag grenades. If you have 5 points spare and plan on throwing these guys into power fist Terminators to tie them up, then guaranteed I2 isn't terrible.

 

Ranged upgrades:

- Mitralocks. Not worth it. 8" range is too short to ever be effective, so stick with the 18" laslocks.

- Induction chargers. Not bad. Doubles their firepower, but that isn't particularly impressive at the best of times, so if you need points you will probably drop these.

 

Other options:

- Triaros Armoured Conveyer (AKA, Land Train of Awesomeness). These are entirely optional, depending on your army build, but they're definitely worth getting you can afford the points and £'s. They're a Dedicated Transport that can carry 20 models, and have AV 14/12/12 & 4HP to get them to their objective alive. Their shock-ram allows them to strip a few hull points from enemy vehicles once they've delivered their cargo. Note that whilst having FA14 and a flare shield, they are an extraordinarily long & narrow model, so it's easy to get Side Armour shots against it.

- Lachrimallus Magos. If you take this, then you need at least one Tech-thrall unit anyway. They are flesh-smiths, so any Tech-thrall unit that dies has a 1-in-3 chance of coming back through Ongoing Reserves. Can work nicely if you have lots of these units and throw them forward, meaning if they die and come back they can claim your home objectives.

- Lacyraemarta Tech-Priest Auxilia. These junior flesh-smiths boost the Feel No Pain rolls of all nearby Tech-thralls by +1. Imagine Fearless Troops with a 4+ save AND 4+ FNP. Great upgrade, but a bit hard to implement effectively due to the limited range. They're Servitors are also T5 with FNP (5+), so they are pretty sturdy.

 

As with all 30k armies, theme is everything, so taking all the above units sets you up for a wicked Adsecularis army. You'll want to supplement the hordes of Tech-thralls with some heavy hitting units like Krios Venators, Myrmidon Destructors and Super-heavies. Hope this helps BassWave! :)

[BassWave]

I appreciate the in-depth analysis Caillum. I was contemplating flooding the board with 100 cyber zombies backed up by tanks and such. Not being able to run with them is disappointing. I was kinda wanting them to charge up the field with chain blades, but that ain't happening. And we still don't have an assault transport despite being the faction that discovered and makes land raiders.

 

I'm trying to come up with a cc focused list for fun, but haven't been successful.

[N1SB]

Hiya, just sharing some personal experience as data points in the Grand Calculation:

 

 

Just starting my mech and trying to decide between tagamata, reductor and cybernetica. Big bots are as cool as but myrmidons are the models that won me over. Which do they fit in best with ? Thanks

 

 

1st, congratulations on this big first step.  I saw your posts before and, like you, I basically started with Myrmidons and simply gradually built around them.  I've tried some stuff, just reporting what I found, because I was in a very similar position like yours.

 

 

+++++

 

 

What do Myrmidon Destructors best fit in with?  Anything, as long as you stick with those weapon options mentioned above (Irradiation Engine, Graviton Imploder, Volkite Culverin, depending on opponents' units), especially in the meta of 30k.  Always MVPs.

 

That isn't some preachy "do whatever you want" comment.  It's simply that Myrmidons always seem to be relevant.

 

 

+++++

 

 

I'm going to jump the gun here and move onto the follow-up question, then what's the "best" Mechanicum faction and why?  Many have given their views, so here's my humble one, having undergone the same journey you are, back when our Red Book came out.

 

Disclaimer - I've found Mechanicum so successful an army that even here, between the factions, it doesn't matter that much.

 

 

Taghmata - the vanilla choice.  No benefits, but no restrictions, either.  Myrmidons can fit here, obviously.  Moving on.

 

Ordo Reductor - the mobility and/or artillery choice.  Benefits include no terrain checks, artillery options for Heavy Support and a Force Org Chart that allows for 4 Heavy Support slots (where Myrmidon Destructors are) with no downside.  The requirements are that you need to get the Reductor HQ unit (i.e. HQ tax) then Thallaxes (those jet pack units) as your Compulsory Troops.  It turns out, those Thallaxes are probably the best objective scorers in the Mechanicum that we want to take anyway, so that's not really a limitation.  Because it's so easy to qualify for the benefits of being Reductor, I think it kinda is the current go-to.  For Myrmidons, the extra mobility can be useful to re-position, because that happens sometimes.  They do compete for a Heavy Support slot with other great choices, but then again, Reductor has a FOC for 4 Heavy Slots.

 

Legio Cybernetica - big bots!  Benefits are for big bots (control range), but unfortunately the requirement are also big bots.  The problem lies in that your Compulsory Troops have to be Castellaxes, which is cool...EXCEPT that they do NOT score objectives.  The result is you got to get other scoring units...like the Thallaxes, at which point you've probably qualified for Ordo Reductor (which is why Reductor's kinda the go-to)!  Myrmidons fit in here fine, too, they got a bunch of big stompy robots to screen them.

 

BONUS OPTION: Mechanicum as Allies - I never considered this until we discussed this here last week, but you can actually qualify for these factional bonuses even as an Allied Force to something else.  That might actually limit the requirements (i.e. taxes).  In fact, in this regard I think Legio Cybernetica benefits the most, if you don't mind taking just 1 unit of Myrmidon Destructors.  Lt. Dan, I don't remember what other 30k army you have, but this might be the most accessible option for you right now to start a Mechanicum force.

 

 

+++++

 

 

My personal suggestion, as a guy that started with Myrmidons myself?  I would've tried to make a Space Marine Legion force (in my case, 30k Iron Hands that I had some stuff for) allied with Legio Cybernetica with a Magos Dominus personally leading a unit of Castellaxes and a unit of Myrmidons (probably riding a Triaros), then other stuff I feel like painting (like Voraxes in my case or probably the new Vultarax), and a Techpriest Auxilia unit to fix the Typhon Superheavy that I would surely bring.  That's like an entire Allied Detachment where everyone acts like a Heavy Support choice.  That would've, for me, been minimum-fuss-maximum fun.

 

I share this idea now, in the hopes that you can benefit from what I wish someone had told me at the start.

 

 

I appreciate the in-depth analysis Caillum. I was contemplating flooding the board with 100 cyber zombies backed up by tanks and such. Not being able to run with them is disappointing. I was kinda wanting them to charge up the field with chain blades, but that ain't happening. And we still don't have an assault transport despite being the faction that discovered and makes land raiders.

I'm trying to come up with a cc focused list for fun, but haven't been successful.

 

 

I thought a long time before posting because I faced a very similar concept in my 1st battle with Mechanicum.  I wanted to provide a possible solution...even if it is not completely not obvious and isn't quite ready yet.

 

That army I faced was not Tech Thralls, but some Book V Imperial Militia & Cults traitor force with this complicated combo of "Provenance" special rules with Fearless, WS 2, extra Strength horde (and he summoned Daemons on top), IIRC.

 

The point was: a cheap, hard-hitting, disposable horde.  Fighting it felt like swimming against the current.

 

 

+++++

 

 

Its main limitation was exactly what you pointed out: speed.  It kinda felt like fighting the old Ork horde armies of previous edition, and even though I ended up winning by kiting and playing the objectives (I was not even geared for anti-horde), it was brutal.

 

What I found was, to maneuver around terrain without gaming the system too badly (no funny business of "nudging" models a little too far forward doing movement), he only engaged with half of his horde.  The rest of his models were trailing way behind, even though they were running, because of terrain, trying to avoid each other, it was just a sad sight to see.

 

My opponent told me afterwards that it would've worked better using your idea: a horde of Tech Thralls with all those bonuses of Heavy Chain Blades, Frags, Carapace Armour and even Fearless, your per-model-points-cost is about the same as an Ork, but far superior.

 

Unfortunately, with Tech Thralls, as you noted, that's even slower than what I faced, so I can imagine those problems.

 

 

+++++

 

 

Now I see the other problem you mentioned, the Triaros Dedicated Transport.

 

That whole cheap, hard-hitting, disposable horde idea falls apart when you factor in their Dedicated Transport, the Triaros.  Dividing that train's cost among the models, the points-cost-per-model doubles.  It's no longer an Ork's low cost, but a MEQ one.

 

That totally wipes out the purpose of the exercise, and as you pointed out...it's not even an Assault Vehicle.

 

 

+++++

 

 

But don't give up on the idea just yet.  Cyber Zombies are cool, but yeah, kinda needs an Assault Transport option.

 

And that might be coming, and in fact, it was Caillum who showed me the auspice.  We might be getting Baneblade Variants.

 

In the early portion of the new Legion Astartes Army List Book, where they explain the general rules about the Age of Darkness, they get a section about additional Super Heavy Lords of War available (page 10 sidebar if you have it).

 

The way it's written suggests it's largely army-neutral EXCEPT for options like "Space Marine Crew", which it describes as an upgrade for "when used in conjunction with THIS army list".  The way it's presented really suggests that list of Super Heavy Lords of War will be available to all army lists eventually, with certain upgrades specific depending on the army.

 

 

+++++

 

 

One of those options listed is a Stormlord, a Baneblade Variant which, aside from having a lot of guns, also has a Transport Capacity of 40 models.  Being a Superheavy that could be 2 units of 20 Tech-Thralls each.

 

In that scenario, the Tech-Thralls aren't the core of the army, but a defensive counter-measure for the Stormlord.  If anyone comes close, you vomit out the Cyber Zombies at them.  If they don't...well, now you have 2 objective securing tarpits.

 

Tbh, it'll probably work out to not exactly be 20 Tech Thralls.  I imagine the 40 unit compartment to be like:

 

17 Tech Thralls with all them upgrades in one unit

17 Tech Thralls with all them upgrades in another unit

2 Techpriest Auxilia + 4 Servo-bots with that Feel No Pain bonus, who could also fix the Tank

 

The Baneblade Variants aren't really points-cost-justified until you factor in the potential for awesome possibilities like this.  I was looking at Cailum and a new member, Friday's, posts, read yours, kinda got this idea...which is a really cool concept.

 

I mean, seriously, think of a Baneblade painted and/or converted like an ancient temple, like an Aztech step pyramid (because the Baneblade kinda reminds me of that) and then infidels get too close and it spills forth its ancient Aztech cyber zombie guardians.

[LtDan]

Thanks for that reply not 1 step back. That was a very helpful reply. I've got a 5500point deathguard force that I run the reaping with usually. So extra hss squads.

So fair is got a magos, 6 thallax with 2 plasma fusils and a trios to build and about to order the myrmidons from FW.

[LtDan]

O and if I do reductor do transports count towards the units your allowed for battle automats?. Cheers

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I just take Tech-Thralls with Rite of Pure Thought for scoring and assault speedbumps (keeping Thanatars out of melee is very important). 20 at 1500, 30 at 2500, 40 at 3500. You preferably want the Adsecularis to get ignored. 

 

Investing too heavily into them is a mistake I feel. If you want that 'horde of stuff that is Fearless and clogs up the board', Ally Militia. The Cult Horde+Tainted Flesh wombo combo is hilarious and will make Legion players QQ pretty hard. They can also bring Gorgons as transports, which is hilarious as it sounds. WS3 Rending is more scary than WS2 S6 chainblades. And the Levy squads cost nearly nothing to field, even the Force Commander is dirt cheap for what he does. 

 

The Lacrymarta trick is cute, but its only a 5+ to rez from Reserves and it won't win you games. Also the Tech-Auxilia trick to get them to 4+ FNP kinda falls apart once they come up against S6+ shooting/melee. If the Adsecularis were T4 it would be a lot better, but they're not. I feel like FW made Adsecularis too bad, they really do nothing well (shooting or melee), and even with carapace they're childishly easy to remove en-masse. T4 would be the easy fix, they'd at least stand up to S7 hits easier and tarpit better. 

 

 

I'd avoid mixing lists. Robots are best in Cybernetica, tanks in Reductor, infantry in Taghmata. I feel like Mechanicum function best when you focus on one of those variants. 

[N1SB]

Thanks for that reply not 1 step back. That was a very helpful reply. I've got a 5500point deathguard force that I run the reaping with usually. So extra hss squads.

So fair is got a magos, 6 thallax with 2 plasma fusils and a trios to build and about to order the myrmidons from FW.

 

 

An awesome start, those are safe bets whichever way you want to go, always relevant.

 

 

O and if I do reductor do transports count towards the units your allowed for battle automats?. Cheers

 

 

An excellent question.  I do not know, as I never came close to taking that many.  I, too, would appreciate a clarification on this.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The wording for Ordo Reductor is;

 

'Patterns of Force:...An Ordo Reductor War Covenant force may not contain a greater number of Battle-automata and Siege-automata units than half the ototal number of units in the detachment regardoess lf that detachment's type. So, for example, if a Primary Dteachment force made from an Ordo Reductor War Covenant comprises a total of six units, up to three of these units could be Battle-automata and/or Siege-automata units'

 

So I'd say yes. They don't mention Force slots, just total units. Transport is a seperate unit, so I think Thallax+Triaros for example would be two. So if you were taking that as your Compulsary choices, you could have four robot units (remembering that most robots can come in squads, so you can fit quite a few still). 

 

That said, I still feel like you shouldn't take robots in Reductor. Tanks become scoring in Matrix of Ruin, and the extra Heavy slot is intended to allow you to spam Krios Venators and Siege squadrons. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Reclusiarch Darius

[N1SB]

 

Investing too heavily into them is a mistake I feel. If you want that 'horde of stuff that is Fearless and clogs up the board', Ally Militia. The Cult Horde+Tainted Flesh wombo combo is hilarious and will make Legion players QQ pretty hard. They can also bring Gorgons as transports, which is hilarious as it sounds. WS3 Rending is more scary than WS2 S6 chainblades. And the Levy squads cost nearly nothing to field, even the Force Commander is dirt cheap for what he does. 

 

The Lacrymarta trick is cute, but its only a 5+ to rez from Reserves and it won't win you games. Also the Tech-Auxilia trick to get them to 4+ FNP kinda falls apart once they come up against S6+ shooting/melee. If the Adsecularis were T4 it would be a lot better, but they're not. I feel like FW made Adsecularis too bad, they really do nothing well (shooting or melee), and even with carapace they're childishly easy to remove en-masse. T4 would be the easy fix, they'd at least stand up to S7 hits easier and tarpit better. 

 

 

 

In the battle I described above, I'm pretty sure now that Cult Horde + Tainted Flesh is exactly what my friend took.  Your analysis makes some really good points, maybe my friend was just blaming his units in the wake of his loss ("Mechanicum is so OP, it does everything better, so unbalanced, bleh bleh bleh.")

 

Fearless Cyber Zombies would be so cool, though.  Maybe the same Imperial Cults and Militia Book can do something similar?  There was a Provenance of War that is Cyber-Something that, in addition to giving an Invuln Save, also makes Mechanicum become Sworn Battle Brothers as Allies.  Maybe some combination of that with whatever also gives Fearless, and then you get extra-cheap Militia units and possibly Power Weapon Ogryn-equivalents?  Maybe?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

In the battle I described above, I'm pretty sure now that Cult Horde + Tainted Flesh is exactly what my friend took.  Your analysis makes some really good points, maybe my friend was just blaming his units in the wake of his loss ("Mechanicum is so OP, it does everything better, so unbalanced, bleh bleh bleh.")

 

Militia are easily the weakest army in 30k. FW did such a poor job with their army list. The strongest builds for Militia are basically spamming Superheavies via Troop Gorgon transports and triple Malcadors in Heavy, or going full infantry spam with Cult+Tainted Flesh hordes. 

 

Mechanicum aren't OP, he just needs to git gud. 

 

The only advantage of Cyber-Augmentations Provenance is the 6+ invul (or +1 to existing) and Sworn Brothers. I don't see the point, as your Magi should have Mechanicum units to hang with anyway. Cult Horde+Tainted Flesh is fantastic because your dirt-cheap Inducted Levies are now a viable threat to things. They're basically Fearless and have Hatred with Rending attacks. Ogryns are kinda bad sadly, Ursarax are a better version of the 'T5 3-wound assault unit'. 

[Withershadow]

Reductor is the nicest boon to Myrmidons because they gain Walkers in Ruin and flat out ignore most of the terrain commonly found on 30k/40k tables.

 

I've taken a Paragon Thanatar in Reductor just to alleviate "too many medusas and Krios squadrons" complaints. If Vultarax could take Paragon, it would be a solid Avenger alternative for air and ground armor, but alas it's not an option (yet?).

 

And Ursarax are awful. Low leadership and can't sweep. There are better options for dealing with tanks than punching them with Ursarax, which is pretty much all they are good for.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Withershadow

[LtDan]

Thanks for the advise withershadow.