Black Book - Insurrection (PUBLISHED)

[bluntblade]

 

Odyssalas doesn't have a Warlord Trait yet, I'll have to consult Slips.

 

He doesn't need a fixed one, a randomly rolled one is fine enough as-is :p

True, but I thought it could help represent his methods (and also do that for the various Déka captains)

[Big Bad Squig]

 

Grifft, I think it's fairly balanced as it is. What do you say? Also, Squig, the rite will need some fluff to describe it. 

 

 

While usually a fairly reasonable Legion with a preference for avoiding unnecessary conflict, there are times when the Godslayers encounter foes so stubborn or violent that they completely resist any attempts at mediation, and must be eliminated without mercy.  At times like these, the Eighth resort to tactics unofficially known as Laterns’ Fire, the name of which was adopted from a derogatory comment made by the Primarch of the Fourteenth.  However, these tactics are nothing to sneer at, instead representing the most violent style of fighting that the Godslayers adopt.  Swathes of powerful psychic suppressants cloak the battlefield in darkness, while heavy artillery pounds the enemy to the ground and tank companies advance on fortified positions.  The use of these tactics increased during the Insurrection, as fighting became more brutal and honourless.

 

I looked at some of the FW RoW descriptions and they seemed fairly limited, so I tried to keep this restrained.  Should I add more or is this enough?

[simison]

It's good.

[simison]

The Suppressor Squad seems relatively straightforward. It's a TAC squad with Twisted Brotherhood and the Psychic Void at 12' ability. That would be a 20 point ability, so, I'm confused. Why does this unit cost 210 points to field? 

 

Grifft, am I missing something? Because if each marine was paying for the ability individually, it should be an additional 200 points, instead of 85 points. That doesn't work if the unit is getting a 25% bargain off the ability price. 

 

A minor note, why a max unit size of 25 marines?

[Grifftofer]

Well the Twisted Brotherhood rule in and of itself I costed out at about 15pts. This is due to the increased resilience and area coverage of a unit with the pariah rules over individuals, so that is where 35pts comes from. Some of the rest, I suspect, is due to the change in tactical squad cost. When this unit was originally written the Tac squad was a 150 point unit as a base. Oh and remember that some of the points costs for the Pariah rules have changed since the Suppressors were written as well (most significantly is the cost reduction of the range bonuses on the powers). So I think that the whole lot is due to the alterations we have made over recent weeks to the various points costs in the interest of balance.

[Big Bad Squig]

 

A minor note, why a max unit size of 25 marines?

 

No particular reason that I can recall.  Tacticals are maximum 30 right?

[Grifftofer]

No. Only 20.

[Big Bad Squig]

Ah.  Then let's change the Suppressor Squad to a maximum of twenty too, because they shouldn't be going over tactical squad size.

[simison]

Ah.  Then let's change the Suppressor Squad to a maximum of twenty too, because they shouldn't be going over tactical squad size.

 

Your call. I thought it was so that the squad didn't have to worry about dedicated transports and can maximize the range of their Pariah-ness, while also emulating 17th century infantry tactics with blobs of men marching over the battlefield. 

 

So, with an original TAC squad costing 150 points, that's now only a 60 point difference, not too bad, considering the 35 points now needed for the Pariah rules.

 

Grifft, Squig, how does 165 points sound with additional marines clocking in at the current 12 points?

[Slips]

10 Man Tac Squads are now 125, btw.

[simison]

10 Man Tac Squads are now 125, btw.

 

I know, I was comparing the original price for the TAC squad with the original price for the Suppressors. 

 

The price I suggested for the Suppressors are based on the current price for the TAC squad. 

 

While I'm at it, slot check on the Scions.

 

3 tech (Wave Blades, Iona Narthecium, Obscura JP) - 3 units (Phantoms, Depthstriders, Phaeton) - 3 characters (Metis, Inna, Antonidas) 

 

Slots line up. The permanents: 1 RoW - 1 Primarch

 

So, 1 RoW and 1 relic short, as far as I can see. Is that accurate, Slips?

[Slips]

Pretty much, yeah. I remember thinking about a relic a long time ago and couldn't really come up with much of anything so thats going to take some brainstorming.

 

The other RoW, for a time, was basically based around Super-Wraith-Mode Primarch and him bringing Terminators and Stompy Robbits along to go smash stuff and this is the Hilariously Expensive but OP as hell monstrosity I came up with:

 

 

 

The Leviathan's Chosen:

 

Effects:

• Pionus Santor (Wraith) may be selected as a Compulsory HQ for an Army using this Rite Of War instead of being a Lord Of War Choice. Additionally, Pionus permits Depthstrider Terminators taken as a part of this army to automatically enter from reserves via Teleportation on a Turn of the Players Choosing using their Transponders but only if they deepstrike within 12" of Pionus and only scatter 1D6 when doing so. Depthstriders embarked within a Vehicle may not benefit from this effect.
• Mechanicum Battle-Automata may be taken in the following ways:
  • Castellax Battle-Automata: Non-Compulsory Troops in Maniples of 3 or More Models. Taken in such a manner, they gain the Feel No Pain (5+) Special Rule.
  • Arlatax Battle-Automata: A Single Maniple in the Fast Attack Slot or as a 5 Model Bodyguard Unit / Command Squad to Pionus Santor overriding the usual restrictions imposed by their Unit Types. If Taken as a Bodyguard Unit / Command Squad, the Maniple gains the It Will Not Die and Rage Special Rules. Furthermore, they must all be equipped with an Arc Scourge.
  • Vorax Battle-Automata: Fast Attack Slot gaining the Infiltrate and Feel No Pain (5+) Special Rules.
  • Domitar Battle-Automata: A Single Maniple in the Elites Slot. Maniples in this army numbering 3 or more Models may Move, Run & Shoot (or vice versa) and Charge in the same turn.
• Depthstrider Terminator Squads gain the Rage, Rampage, Counter-Attack and Furious Charge Special Rules.
• All units in the Armies Primary Detachment gains the Implacable Advance Special Rule if they do not already posses it.
• Dreadnoughts with at least one Armor Value of 13 or higher taken in this army gains the It Will Not Die, Blessed Autosimulacra and Rampage Special Rules. Additionally, If within 8" of Pionus Santor, they ignore all  results on the Vehicle Damage Table except for the Explodes Result and do not scatter when Entering from Deepstrike Reserves.

Restrictions:

• Depthstrider Terminators and Contemptor-Prime Dreadnoughts are Compulsory Troops and must purchase Teleportation Transponders at +10 points per unit; each Dreadnought must buy a separate Transponder.
• Mechanicum, Space Marine, Solar Auxilia and Imperial Militia/Cult Allied Detachments and Fortifications may not be taken.
• Pionus Santor (Living) may not be taken in an Army using this Rite of War.
• May not have more Battle-Automata Units in the Army than there are Depthstrider Terminator Units; an Artalax Maniple taken as a Bodyguard / Command Squad for Pionus does not count towards this limitation.
• Primus Medicae, Praevian and Forge Lord are the only permitted Consul Selections.
• If Pionus Santor (Wraith) is present, no other unit/model with the Rite of Command or Master Of The Legion Special Rule may be included in the army.
• The Detachment may not include a 'Lord of War' Selection.

[Grifftofer]

 

Ah.  Then let's change the Suppressor Squad to a maximum of twenty too, because they shouldn't be going over tactical squad size.

 

Your call. I thought it was so that the squad didn't have to worry about dedicated transports and can maximize the range of their Pariah-ness, while also emulating 17th century infantry tactics with blobs of men marching over the battlefield. 

 

So, with an original TAC squad costing 150 points, that's now only a 60 point difference, not too bad, considering the 35 points now needed for the Pariah rules.

 

Grifft, Squig, how does 165 points sound with additional marines clocking in at the current 12 points?

 

165 and 12 sound reasonable to me.

 

 

Pretty much, yeah. I remember thinking about a relic a long time ago and couldn't really come up with much of anything so thats going to take some brainstorming.

 

The other RoW, for a time, was basically based around Super-Wraith-Mode Primarch and him bringing Terminators and Stompy Robbits along to go smash stuff and this is the Hilariously Expensive but OP as hell monstrosity I came up with:

 

 

 

The Leviathan's Chosen:

 

Effects:

• Pionus Santor (Wraith) may be selected as a Compulsory HQ for an Army using this Rite Of War instead of being a Lord Of War Choice. Additionally, Pionus permits Depthstrider Terminators taken as a part of this army to automatically enter from reserves via Teleportation on a Turn of the Players Choosing using their Transponders but only if they deepstrike within 12" of Pionus and only scatter 1D6 when doing so. Depthstriders embarked within a Vehicle may not benefit from this effect.
• Mechanicum Battle-Automata may be taken in the following ways:
  • Castellax Battle-Automata: Non-Compulsory Troops in Maniples of 3 or More Models. Taken in such a manner, they gain the Feel No Pain (5+) Special Rule.
  • Arlatax Battle-Automata: A Single Maniple in the Fast Attack Slot or as a 5 Model Bodyguard Unit / Command Squad to Pionus Santor overriding the usual restrictions imposed by their Unit Types. If Taken as a Bodyguard Unit / Command Squad, the Maniple gains the It Will Not Die and Rage Special Rules. Furthermore, they must all be equipped with an Arc Scourge.
  • Vorax Battle-Automata: Fast Attack Slot gaining the Infiltrate and Feel No Pain (5+) Special Rules.
  • Domitar Battle-Automata: A Single Maniple in the Elites Slot. Maniples in this army numbering 3 or more Models may Move, Run & Shoot (or vice versa) and Charge in the same turn.
• Depthstrider Terminator Squads gain the Rage, Rampage, Counter-Attack and Furious Charge Special Rules.
• All units in the Armies Primary Detachment gains the Implacable Advance Special Rule if they do not already posses it.
• Dreadnoughts with at least one Armor Value of 13 or higher taken in this army gains the It Will Not Die, Blessed Autosimulacra and Rampage Special Rules. Additionally, If within 8" of Pionus Santor, they ignore all  results on the Vehicle Damage Table except for the Explodes Result and do not scatter when Entering from Deepstrike Reserves.

Restrictions:

• Depthstrider Terminators and Contemptor-Prime Dreadnoughts are Compulsory Troops and must purchase Teleportation Transponders at +10 points per unit; each Dreadnought must buy a separate Transponder.
• Mechanicum, Space Marine, Solar Auxilia and Imperial Militia/Cult Allied Detachments and Fortifications may not be taken.
• Pionus Santor (Living) may not be taken in an Army using this Rite of War.
• May not have more Battle-Automata Units in the Army than there are Depthstrider Terminator Units; an Artalax Maniple taken as a Bodyguard / Command Squad for Pionus does not count towards this limitation.
• Primus Medicae, Praevian and Forge Lord are the only permitted Consul Selections.
• If Pionus Santor (Wraith) is present, no other unit/model with the Rite of Command or Master Of The Legion Special Rule may be included in the army.
• The Detachment may not include a 'Lord of War' Selection.

 

Wow that is a lot of changes and a lot of them are very powerful. You weren't kidding about it being OP :P

[Slips]

I essentially went full wishlist mode in what I wanted to see out of a Terminator, Dreadnought and Automata focused RoW :p

[Grifftofer]

Well as long as you recognise that. It means we can bring it somewhat into line :)

[Slips]

Oh it was toned down a looooot too because it originally allowed Eldar Wraithguard/Blades to be taken in some capacity too.

[Grifftofer]

Well I have some ideas for an Eldar Provenance for the Militia list. Not sure if I should post my ideas for them or not though. I can PM some details though if that's allowed and you're interested.

[Slips]

For now, at least, lets not get into too much Xenos stuff. We're still early in the insurrection that it wouldn't make that much sense. Later down the line, so long as THE IMPERIUM OF MAN^TM is the main focus, having such a provenance shouldn't cause much issue.

 

...that doesnt mean EVERYONE should go ahead and make one though :p

[Grifftofer]

Well I have a small list of Provenance ideas, some taken for the thread suggestions others from different sources. I think I have enough to satisfy people when Emancipation comes around. So we won't need to add too many more through the other books.

[Grifftofer]

Squig. I have a question about your Suppressors. So far I have them as being Troops choices, but then one of the effects of your RoW is that they become non-Compulsory Troops. Is this an intentional drawback? If not then maybe I could suggest making them the other way around by giving them the Support Squad rule and then removing it for the RoW?

[Big Bad Squig]

Squig. I have a question about your Suppressors. So far I have them as being Troops choices, but then one of the effects of your RoW is that they become non-Compulsory Troops. Is this an intentional drawback? If not then maybe I could suggest making them the other way around by giving them the Support Squad rule and then removing it for the RoW?

 

Huh, I could have sworn they were elites.  That was the intention anyway, but being support squads could work too.  I'm unsure which would fit more.

 

Oh, and the points values are all fine.

[simison]

 

Squig. I have a question about your Suppressors. So far I have them as being Troops choices, but then one of the effects of your RoW is that they become non-Compulsory Troops. Is this an intentional drawback? If not then maybe I could suggest making them the other way around by giving them the Support Squad rule and then removing it for the RoW?

 

Huh, I could have sworn they were elites.  That was the intention anyway, but being support squads could work too.  I'm unsure which would fit more.

 

Oh, and the points values are all fine.

 

 

 

I would suggest Support Squads. They're fairly vanilla, minus the suppressor nature, and most legions don't offer a unique troop choice. Helps them stand out more.

 

Good gravy, Slips! I don't suppose you have the toned down version on hand?

[Big Bad Squig]

 

 

Squig. I have a question about your Suppressors. So far I have them as being Troops choices, but then one of the effects of your RoW is that they become non-Compulsory Troops. Is this an intentional drawback? If not then maybe I could suggest making them the other way around by giving them the Support Squad rule and then removing it for the RoW?

 

Huh, I could have sworn they were elites.  That was the intention anyway, but being support squads could work too.  I'm unsure which would fit more.

 

Oh, and the points values are all fine.

 

 

 

I would suggest Support Squads. They're fairly vanilla, minus the suppressor nature, and most legions don't offer a unique troop choice. Helps them stand out more.

 

 

Yeah, let's go with that.  I've edited the RoW post.

[Slips]

That Is the toned down version.

[Grifftofer]

I'll go fetch my Nerf-bat :P