simison Posted September 15, 2016 Author Share Posted September 15, 2016 A question before we continue. Is there a specific character that I should compare Alexander K. to, Squig? As for the Leviathan's Chosen.... I think it'd be much stronger if the net was smaller. Right now, it throws big bonuses at Dephstriders, Battle-Automata, and Dreadnoughts. I suggest reducing it to two, or even just one group to focus on. Also, is there any RoW that has 5 benefits and 6 hindrances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Squig Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 A question before we continue. Is there a specific character that I should compare Alexander K. to, Squig? I don't think so, iirc I just worked using a generic praetor as a base and estimating points costs of special rules from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 A question before we continue. Is there a specific character that I should compare Alexander K. to, Squig? As for the Leviathan's Chosen.... I think it'd be much stronger if the net was smaller. Right now, it throws big bonuses at Dephstriders, Battle-Automata, and Dreadnoughts. I suggest reducing it to two, or even just one group to focus on. Also, is there any RoW that has 5 benefits and 6 hindrances? The main idea behind the RoW, its that you'd only be using Depthstriders, Automata and Dreadnoughts and pretty much nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 The Bears' Claws RoW is similar in focusing units to use, I think you could make the stipulation that only Dreads and skimmers/flyers could be taken like the phaeton and such so you don't random Vindi spam with the tough as nails troop selection availability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 True Enough. Or, simply, Dreadnoughts (any kind and pods), Depthstriders (and dedicated transports) and Battle-Automata Listed are the only things able to be taken. Chief Captain Redd 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted September 17, 2016 Author Share Posted September 17, 2016 Alexander Kharkovic Comparison Cost: 100 points, (Praetor) Attributes No ChangeTotal: 0 points Wargear Kryl'ya: 40 points [20 for JP, 10 for Jink, 10 for Thunderous Charge] Archaeotech Pistol: 20 points Thunder Hammer: 25 points Total: 85 points Special Rules Primarchkin: 15 points Otherworldly Protection (Refractor Field): 10 points Psychic Void: 20 points Indomitable Will: 20 points Total: 65 points Total cost: 150 point Unit Suggested Price: 250 Points Notes Compared to some of my more recent calculations, this one was relatively straightforward. I appreciate that. Unfortunately, he's too expensive. He needs to shave off some points, and there's really no one area that has a point sink causing it. I suspect that the Pariah Legions are going to be struggling with the higher pointages, given their nature. Recommended cuts: Jink from the Jump Pack, Bolt Pistol instead of Archaeotech Pistol, and 9 inch range on Psychic Void. That's 35 points overall, which brings mini-Alex into a much more reasonable range of 215 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted September 17, 2016 Author Share Posted September 17, 2016 A question before we continue. Is there a specific character that I should compare Alexander K. to, Squig? As for the Leviathan's Chosen.... I think it'd be much stronger if the net was smaller. Right now, it throws big bonuses at Dephstriders, Battle-Automata, and Dreadnoughts. I suggest reducing it to two, or even just one group to focus on. Also, is there any RoW that has 5 benefits and 6 hindrances? The main idea behind the RoW, its that you'd only be using Depthstriders, Automata and Dreadnoughts and pretty much nothing else. I just read a 1d4chan summary on every Legion RoW, and I can't find any that are this 'broad'. There are RoWs that provide benefits to one branch of an army (Ravenwing and bikes/jetbikes) or a single unique unit (IF Stone Gauntlet). None of them spread themselves out between both unique units (Depthstriders) and branches of the army (Dreadnoughts & Automata). It needs some tweaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 Karl Volkov Comparison Cost: 100 points, (Praetor) Attributes +1 WS: 5 points -1 BS : (-5) points +1 W: 10 points Total: 10 points Wargear Terminator Armour: 35 points Volkite Charger: 7 points Lucifer Glaive: 35? points [+1 S - 10 points; Murderous Strike - 15 points; Deflagrate - 10 points; Piercing Blow - ?] Total: 77? points Special Rules Eternal Warrior: 25 points Feel No Pain: 15 points Fearless: 15 points Furious Charge: 10 points Total: 65 points Total cost: 152 point Unit Suggested Price: 252 Points Notes Too expensive. What is Piercing Blow? Why does he have Eternal Warrior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifftofer Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 I think I need to call you on Murderous Strike costing 15pts, I think that is too much for what it is. To compare: (Power Axe & Paragon Blade) The paragon blade costs +10 pts, loses Unwieldy, and gains Specialist Weapon and Murderous Strike. So even if we were assuming that Unwieldy and Specialist Weapon are equivalent*, then Murderous Strike would be worth at most 10pts. *I don't agree with this assertion. I believe the permanent setting of Initiative to 1 is a significantly worse penalty than the loss of the attack for two weapons. Especially when that penalty can be gotten around by picking a second Specialist Weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 To compare: (Power Axe & Paragon Blade) The paragon blade costs +10 pts, loses Unwieldy, and gains Specialist Weapon and Murderous Strike. So even if we were assuming that Unwieldy and Specialist Weapon are equivalent*, then Murderous Strike would be worth at most 10pts. Hm, I can't argue against that logic. Though, I'm beginning to wonder if there should be a kind of 'class' restriction. Basically, certain advantages shouldn't be widely available, like Eternal Warrior. Although, next time, post it in the Calculator thread please. And did anybody else take Murderous Strike that's been through the ropes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Antonidas and possibly Odyssalas have it. Also Slips and I settled on Paragon of Glory for Odyssalas (the plan is that each of their name/rule-given leaders will have a different Warlord Trait) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 For Death of the Bear are we going with Sigismund's account? If we are I had a couple edits I'd like to see, nothing huge but… -I think we could go with less disorganization and more of the death happening from Bears trying to safeguard Titan and Knight bearing ships retreating. -Also the Bears primary support of Daughters and Ogryns would be kinda hell even for Astartes but that's something we focus on in a later story. -Daer'dd wouldn't use the Maul, he's got to kill two of his brothers he would use what he's most comfortable with. -More Brutality…face bitting included, Bears augment their canines and nails to be more like their namesake and the legion even has a saying of "The enemy prays to their false gods are weapons t Do not fail for then they'd have to fight a Bear tooth and claw". Also I'm comfortable with 117,000 Bears dying during this battle. Alright those are my too late night notes lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) Antonidas and possibly Odyssalas have it. Also Slips and I settled on Paragon of Glory for Odyssalas (the plan is that each of their name/rule-given leaders will have a different Warlord Trait) Neither of which have been given a rules-check yet, so they're safe. I know none of the Grave Stalker characters have Eternal Warrior. Redd has it, but he's been greenlighted it awhile ago for it. Aandeg doesn't have it. And the Godslayers just reached this point. So, the real question is do the Godslayers warrant access to Eternal Warrior outside of the Primarch? I'm not sure because it doesn't seem like that the deity-specific legions get it, instead, they'll get all of the daemonic boosts when the time comes. Thus far, the Iron Bears have access through Redd. That leaves at least two more slots open for other legions. EDIT: Also, need to come up with a similar level of familiarity for Primarch vehicles. So far, I'm not aware of any of our Primarchs requesting one. Edited September 19, 2016 by simison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Sim in regards to Eternal Warrior my plan for the FK was allow generic paetors to buy it (Adamantine Mantle) but have no characters with it. Also FK have no 3++, so not Salamander level beat stickery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) At the moment no warden has it. But i thought if giving it to scorpion as i will have only 2 character slots used. I could also see it fitting to the legion Relict "agony", Arngrims axe. So preators and champions able to wield it are worthy to get the eternal warrior. Edited September 19, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) Fire Keepers wish to claim one slot. As do the Wardens of Light. Thinking on it, no psyker legion can lay claim to the Eternal Warrior buff, since they could theoretically get it through Endurance. That removes the Harbingers and the Halcyon Wardens from the running. The Iron Bears already get access, so that reduces the potential number of candidates to 15. I'm still debating barring the daemon legions from it, that would rule out the Drowned, the Godslayers, the Grave Stalkers, and the Berserkers of Uran. That leaves 11 candidates. Should any of the Pariah legions have access since they'll already get a unique tree to help stand them out? Following up on the Primarch-transport topic, thus far, only Dorn and Perturabo have one. Neither of them have jump packs, so any of our jump pack or jet pack Primarchs will be out of the running. Edited September 19, 2016 by simison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) But pariah legions are compared to normal legions more expensive and are only really useful against psyker and daemon armies. And from a fluff standpoint: Raiden Athrawes should have it. Edited September 19, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 But pariah legions are compared to normal legions more expensive and are only really useful against psyker and daemon armies. And from a fluff standpoint: Raiden Athrawes should have it. Which is another reasons to remove them from the list. They're already going to be expensive without throwing in Eternal Warrior. Why Athrawes? Abbadon doesn't have Eternal Warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) Abbadon has no arms, how can he be an eternal warrior? Hmmm that is a point but then you have to consider legions specific rules as well because some give you a fnp reroll, some ignore fnp etc. Edited September 19, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 What exactly does the Eternal Warrior mean? That someone can't die? What does someone need to become an Eternal Warrior? Could fit one of my chiefs, Thoruk, who was the Legion master before Andezo and turns against his Primarch after Terra in order to stay loyal. (see timeline) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 It's an immunity to Instant Death. No more, no less. Usually, fluff-wise, it has to be a warrior of either tremendous skill or prestige. Again, the 40k examples are Dante, Calgar, and Grimnar. 30k examples would be Rhy'tan and Sigismund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Squig Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) Notes Too expensive. What is Piercing Blow? Why does he have Eternal Warrior? Ahh, Piercing Blow is the old 5+ Rending, I thought I'd edited that out all the profiles but I must have missed him. Normal Rending would be the equivalent now. In regards to Eternal Warrior, a couple of Godslayers characters had it previously (from a fluff standpoint because of their durability as a Legion, from a crunch standpoint because their Primarch was at the time lackluster in combat) and he was the only one that survived the initial cut. He was essentially the Legion's fighting character, more so than Koschei, but after Koschei's update on Grifft's advice I'd be happy to remove the rule from Volkov. Edited September 19, 2016 by Big Bad Squig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Abbadon has no arms, how can he be an eternal warrior? Hmmm that is a point but then you have to consider legions specific rules as well because some give you a fnp reroll, some ignore fnp etc. ADB will throttle you if you carry on like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Redd doesn't have eternal warrior anymore Hesh thought it made him too survivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Actually, Antonidas doesn't have EW, Inna does and thats because he's a special snowflake more than anything :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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