WarriorFish's Legio Venator Blog

[WarriorFish]

Time to return to my Marines, a few updates for Kill Team. Combi-plasma bit for the Marine and a couple of Scouts:

I have a lot of projects on the go (as always) I want to finish the Cataphractii soon too but the priority is to get my KT ready

[WarriorFish]

Good to be painting some Marines again, my Kill Team is now ready

[WarriorFish]

Finally making good on the Cataphractii

I'll keep the other four simple, combi-bolter with lightning claw and a power sword on the Sergeant - heavy flamer is probably a bit of a miss on such a slow unit plus this keeps points down

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The Terminator's colors seem contradictory. Olive drab armor does not go well with gold trim, as one color is meant for camouflage (hard to see, doesn't draw attention), while the other is meant for decorations (easy to see, draws attention). Either have olive drab armor with black trim, or jade green armor with gold trim.

[Arkaniss]

Nah, you're wrong there Bjorn. The 'olive drab' as you call it is just the chapters colour - it's not camo. Also you're wrong about the colour scheme as it looks great

 

He is nice and chunky and as always a neat and tidy paint job :tu: When can we see some squad mates for him?

[WarriorFish]

I don't see how green is meant for camouflage, or anything really it's just a colour. I'm not sure how well camouflaging a Cataphractii Terminator would work anyway given their size :P The others haven't progressed further than the legs from before but I'm aiming to finish them soon, along with getting a decent picture as the above didn't turn out so great.

[WarriorFish]

Quick bit of action from Kill Team, getting my two newly repainted models on the table top :) We went for a simple start as nobody knew what they were doing, so nothing fancy going on like Scouting or Command Points just the mission - Terror Tactics where you get 2 VPs for getting a model off your opponent's table edge.

The Legio is up against the perfidious Eldar; it has been some time since I last faced them but I was fairly aware of all the tricks they can pull. First turn wasn't too eventful, my opponent got the initiative and moved up keeping the Dire Avengers within the 5++ bubble and snipers wound my sniper.

I move up my flamer and bolter Marines, but otherwise hold to try and do what I can in shooting:

Which isn't too much unfortunately. A Dire Avenger pops but otherwise they're mostly unharmed.

This is followed up by another not terribly exciting turn as both sides exchange fire but are generally unable to achieve anything for it. The bolter Marine takes a would, and the Exarch takes two but doesn't go down.

My Missile Launcher is disappointing, as despite his vantage point and the Comms from the sniper he keeps failing to do anything. Things would be quite different if he managed to pull off some damage when the Dire Avengers clustered He somewhat redeems himself by putting a load of wounds on a Ranger taking him out, but it's too little too late. A Dire Avenger managed to sneak off the table and I lose the bolter and heavy bolter Marines (the latter doing nothing).

The game ends on turn 4, giving my opponent the win. Another turn would probably have changed that as my combat Scout and flamer were about to get some good work done. Not bad for a first game and I learned a lot. Firstly not to forget my hidden combat Scout for the first turn - could have got a draw! Camo cloaks are rather nice at long range so poor rolls aside the Scout tag team had a lot going for them.

Flamer was excellent, and to think I put him in because I didn't know what else to take! He reliably dished out wounds as a dangerous threat Kill Team is a lot of fun so looking forward to getting some more in... also maybe some more sniper Scouts

[hushrong]

Nice batrep! I'm loving kill team and I've played quite a few games where it felt like we were shooting cap guns and blanks for a few turns. So I know how that feels. Then there are games where things died and most of those games involved the flamer. Those things are absolutely brutal in KT. I seriously wish I could be like the TS and just have everyone take one.

[WarriorFish]

I wasn't expecting the flamer to do so well, but in hindsight I should have as a lot of KT reduces the chance to hit. From the flamer's perspective it gets to ignore cover again The Exarch was a pain as he kept passing saves, had enough wounds put in him to take him out at least twice! I do like the injury mechanic though, makes things less clear cut as a model can hold on a bit longer if he's lucky (very lucky in the Exarch's case).

 

It does lead to some situations where things take a dramatic turn or the tide turns which is good, keeps you on your toes. For example in another game (batrep still to come) my Guard took on some 'nids and we had a situation where multiple charges happened and they mostly only inflicted injuries which stunted my opponent's momentum and let me snatch some initiative (though not literally, which is another story!).

 

Anyway, the flamer's performance did make me think of my Thousand Sons as I've been planning to use KT to get them on the table top and an AP-2 flamer sounds pretty tasty. For my Marines this is the motivation I need to finally repaint my Scout snipers, and I'll piggle away on the long standing Cataphractii project too

[hushrong]

Yeah, my buddy runs for rubrics with flamers and I think his asp. sorcerer had a the pisol variant. Anyways, the rubrics advance, they can shoot with the warpflamer since its assault, and its D6 auto hits. The ap -2 just makes it hurt more. So they are literally running up the field trying to start fires. And if you charge...d6 autohits coming at you.

 

The injury mechanic is nice. There is a chance that your model may get to stay in game for a bit longer instead of just being wiped out. You just have to suffer the -1 stuff from fleshwounds. Unless you have transhuman physiology where that is ignored on the first one. The changing momentum of the game is also pretty fun, it definitely keeps it entertaining.

[WarriorFish]

Back again to try out the new codex! Fresh from collecting it earlier in the week I had to rely on the old fashioned way to create a list The point changes are rather nice as it makes a difference across those Tacticals and Dreadnoughts - though not a great deal at 500pts.

Legio Venator vs Black Legion at 500pts

No mercy, no respite, kill them all!

Legio

Hidden Content

Captain

- Plasma pistol

- Teeth of Terra

- Rites of Battle WT

6x Tacticals

- Lascannon

6x Tacticals

- Missile Lancher

5x Scouts

- BP/CCW

- PF Sgt

Dreadnought

- Assault cannon

- DCCW w/stormbolter

Black Legion

Hidden Content

Chaos Lord

- BP/CCW

10x CSM

- BP/CCW

- flamer

6x CSM

- Plasma gun

10x Cultists

- 6x autogun

- 4x pistol/CCW

5x Havocs

- 4x missile launcher

Helbrute

- Autocannons

- Missile launcher

Deployment

It's a small evening game without much room and the aim to kill - deployment is quite straight forward

I kept my forces together so the auras and abilities could all support each other, with the Scouts playing picket. Against a heavily combat based opponent it felt a lot like my Guard games where I had to get some good shooting in to thin them out as much as possible. Which is just as well as there's only so much long range you can muster at 500pts so I was expecting the bolters to do most of the talking.

Things go well when I grab first turn, so off to a good start!

Turn 1

Not much to be done, I advance my characters a bit but otherwise hold my ground. My Dread is made for close support so my Tacs need to lend a hand, sadly the Lascannon fails to wound but the Missile launcher scores a hit for 4 wounds - not bad!

In response my opponent advances most of his forces, but his shooting is abysmal. Lucky for me he can only take out a couple of Scouts! Turn 1 is a solid one for me so I look to improve upon this...

Turn 2

I decide to switch down to the Tactical Doctrine as the number of bolters I have mean I can do more with it as I need to handle as much as I can before fisticuffs. With my two heavy weapons I'm confident they can do their bit against the Helbrute. So it proves when the Lascannon redeems himself and scores a neat 4 wounds to finish it off. This is further improved when the rest of my forces pour fire in to wipe out the 5 man CSM squad and inflict a few more on the 10 man squad. A flying start to the game indeed.

My opponent advances up again, which I considered a mistake. I was proven right sooner than anticipated when the dice gods seemed to agree... I lose a Scout and a Marine from the right hand squad but am otherwise completely unscathed!

Turn 3

Things are going extremely well for me, so I'm sure I can handle what's coming at me without too much trouble. It'll only be a matter of tracking down the Havocs with what I have left. I swap to the Assault Doctrine and move everything up in preparation to charge

Dice are thrown at the heretics and it hurts. A Command Point re-roll on on the Chapter Master's plasma pistol (AP-4!) slays the last of the 10 man CSM squad, and the Scouts and Tacs have no problem thinning the Cultists out ready to charge.

The CM fails his charge but it's not needed - the Dreadnought alone is more than enough to see the job done. The extra attack and AP means the Cultists have no chance and are wiped, leaving me free to consolidate and start the advance on the Havocs...

Not having the chance to strike back my opponent knows his goose is cooked; perhaps if I had suffered more casualties it'd look better but odds weren't looking rosy. This would have been improved had the four kraks all gone through - with exactly 8 wounds all I needed to roll was one 6 to keep him in the game, and I got three! With his Techmarine chaperone that means he was likely to stick around.

Turn 4

There's not much to be done other than advance and shoot. I use a Stratagem to jump back up to the Tactical Doctrine which helps put the hurt on.

From here on out it's just a case of mopping up, as the surviving Havocs can't hope to stop the onslaught. My opponent's luck definitely ended as it began here; a crushing victory for the Emperor's finest!

Looking back, I think the game was decided turn 2. My opponent had apparently deeply offended the dice gods somehow so struggled to do much at all, and I had pretty decent to great rolling. Add in fighting a new codex on top and that's a steep hill! Not that anyone needed telling, but C:SM is a shooting codex even more than before so sticking to what they do well yields fruit.

It was great to get my Marines some more table time, and felt really good to have some flavour! Especially as there were so few decent Stratagems before I didn't need my cards I could just remember them The Chapter Master one is good now it's 2CP, I tried it out as I had some to spare and it made a nice difference (I still think it should just be a unit entry though).

The doctrines were cool, offered some nice flexibility which felt Mariney especially with the ability to jump back up one with a Stratagem. The AP-1 bonus across the board seemed to make a big impact especially with the Tactical Doctrine and all those bolters, I imagine that's where I'll sit most of the time.

With a new good codex I reckon my Marines will be getting more games in now. Some decent point changes is nice but the new flavour is what makes the biggest difference Everyone needs to watch out, for the Legio are back and... well, I guess they never took prisoners anyway

Perhaps good timing, as the Cataphractii are one of my desk projects I have made an oath to complete. For a final bonus, time to also sit my WIP topic where it belongs - when you're been playing as IH this long no point beating around the bush

[Kierdale]

Congratulations on the victory! :tu:

[WarriorFish]

I've got another game coming up next week, the Legio will be able to get a fuller game in. The list is made (5 Dreads) but that made me think about someone who needs adding to the roster:

I know this is adding yet another project to my backlog I'm trying to clear, but he'll be a quick one and will provide some spice to squeeze in between the other projects It'll be good to have another Techmarine running around, and on a budget

[Arkaniss]

Another Tech Marine will be good for your Dreadageddon list :P An old school one is the icing on the cake! It's good to see your Marines being worked on again and I do like Cataphractii models so I'm looking forward to seeing them done

[WarriorFish]

Time for a quick batrep from my game over the weekend. Bit of a funny game so I didn't learn much from it, but good to get a taste of things to come all the same

Legio vs Tyranids @ 1800pts

Kill Points

Classic Deployment

Legio

Hidden Content

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [6CP, 1,070pts] ++

+ HQ +

Chapter Master [-2CP, 83pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Plasma pistol, Power sword, Rites of War, Stratagem: Chapter Master, The Burning Blade, Warlord
. . Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Faction: Imperium, Infantry, HQ, Chapter Master, Warlord

Lieutenants [128pts]
. . Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Faction: Imperium, Infantry, Lieutenants, HQ
. . Lieutenant: Bolt pistol, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Power sword
. . . . Categories: Character
. . Lieutenant: Bolt pistol, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Power sword
. . . . Categories: Character

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [72pts]
. . Categories: Faction: Imperium, Infantry, Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Scout, Scout Squad, Troops
. . Scout Sergeant: Combi-flamer, Frag & Krak grenades, Power fist
. . 4x Scout w/Boltgun: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

Tactical Squad [156pts]
. . Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Faction: Imperium, Infantry, Tactical Squad, Troops
. . 7x Space Marine: 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Boltgun, 7x Frag & Krak grenades
. . Space Marine Sergeant: Frag & Krak grenades, Melta bombs
. . . . Boltgun/Bolt pistol: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Lascannon
. . Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Bolt pistol, Flamer, Frag & Krak grenades

Tactical Squad [149pts]
. . Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Faction: Imperium, Infantry, Tactical Squad, Troops
. . 7x Space Marine: 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Boltgun, 7x Frag & Krak grenades
. . Space Marine Sergeant: Frag & Krak grenades, Melta bombs
. . . . Boltgun/Bolt pistol: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy bolter
. . Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Meltagun

+ Heavy Support +

Whirlwind [82pts]: Storm bolter, Whirlwind castellan launcher
. . Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Faction: Imperium, Whirlwind, Vehicle, Heavy Support

+ Flyer +

Stormtalon Gunship [176pts]: Twin assault cannon, Typhoon missile launcher
. . Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Fly, Faction: Imperium, Stormhawk Interceptor, Vehicle, Aircraft, Flyer

+ Dedicated Transport +

Razorback [112pts]: Storm bolter, Twin lascannon
. . Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Faction: Imperium, Vehicle, Transport, Razorback, Dedicated Transport

Razorback [112pts]: Storm bolter, Twin lascannon
. . Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Faction: Imperium, Vehicle, Transport, Razorback, Dedicated Transport

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [1CP, 730pts] ++

+ HQ +

Techmarine [61pts]: Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades, Power axe
. . Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Faction: Imperium, Infantry, Techmarine, HQ
. . Servo-harness: Flamer, Plasma cutter, 2x Servo-arm

+ Elites +

Dreadnought [104pts]: Assault cannon
. . Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Dreadnought, Faction: Imperium, Vehicle, Elites
. . Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter: Storm bolter

Dreadnought [116pts]: Assault cannon
. . Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Dreadnought, Faction: Imperium, Vehicle, Elites
. . Dreadnought combat weapon w/Heavy Flamer: Heavy flamer

Ironclad Dreadnought [140pts]: 2x Hunter-killer missile, Meltagun, Seismic hammer
. . Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Dreadnought, Faction: Imperium, Ironclad Dreadnought, Vehicle, Elites
. . Dreadnought combat weapon w/Heavy Flamer: Heavy flamer

Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [167pts]
. . Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Dreadnought, Elites, Faction: Imperium, Relic, Vehicle, Relic Contemptor Dreadnought, Relic Elites, <Chapter>
. . Dreadnought melee weapon: Dreadnought combat weapon, Storm bolter
. . Kheres assault cannon

Venerable Dreadnought [142pts]: Twin lascannon
. . Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Dreadnought, Faction: Imperium, Vehicle, Venerable Dreadnought, Elites
. . Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter: Storm bolter

My list was, naturally, full of Dreads I almost took the Leviathan but his build is pricey and I wanted more units. The Legio are no strangers to fighting the great devourer, such that it's more the great starving, and the mission roll made it a very straight forward game. That said, the 'nid army wasn't a load of units even managing to finish deploying first so it wasn't too lopsided.

Deployment

This was curious, with the table I was expecting to have to load the right flank and hold out as best I could but when my opponent started loading the centre up I responded. I was wondering what I was missing, but I think it was just a mistake looking back! I consolidated my forces as spreading out would only make for easy pickings, with characters central for support I planned to let that take the hits and try and move up to counter attack and envelop with the flanking Dreads.

Alternatively, the Dreads could likely hold flank attacks long enough for me to redeploy in support. Unseen to the right is my Stormtalon, trying to stay away from the opposing flyer as I know what it can do...

After three draws I win the roll off, but the first turn is seized from me! Not a great start, but I figured that I can probably weather a first turn of shooting without too much pain.

Turn 1

Not a great deal happens as it turns out. The giant stealer squad advances with the Broodlord, as other units move up. The enemy flyer zips along to shoot the Stormtalon, inflicting a lot of damage but I spirit some away with jammy 6+ saves and a couple of 6+++ rolls no doubt saving the gunship! I get lucky with other shooting as the nids fail to get through.

As mean as some of their shooting is that's not what I need to worry about as the list is mostly about stabbing things. The giant stealer squad needs to die or I'm in big trouble, but I also want to take out the flyer or mine will be toast next turn. I decide to go for it and zip my Stormtalon up to lend its prodigious firepower against the foot hordes and trust in my lascannons to handle the flyer.

With some help from the Chapter Master the lascannons blast the flyer down - but it takes every one! The Stormtalon's shooting is poor but fortunately the rest of my army can direct their guns on the stealers and I manage to take them all down, but only by the smallest of margins! While that was a lot of dice, it has bought me some vital breathing room and dealt a harsh blow to my opponent along with putting my 3VPs up

Turn 2

It was a bad first turn for my opponent, but there's still plenty to work with. For starters the Dica..ma..thing and the fex are trotting round my flank happily and there's nothing I can do yet, and the Trygon pops up with a giant horde of gaunts in front of my lines to replace the stealers. Despite this I'm confident that things shouldn't go too badly for me and I can counter attack well enough.

The giant nid charges the Ironclad in an all too familiar scene of him not getting to do anything, but the dice gods take pity and I 6+++ him to life! He whiffs on the return a bit (perhaps in shock he's still around) but that's still 5 wounds For shooting the nids mostly bounce of ceramite, though the Stormtalon is taking a battering - but still operating well enough thanks to the new Iron Hands trait To complete this, the 5+ over watch plays an important role too as the poor Broodlord charges only to eat a lascannon to the face, rolling neatly with a 5 to remove his last 5 wounds...

With this bountiful luck I make the most of my shooting phase. The lascannons freem to life once more, taking out the Trygon - that AP-4 is brutal with no invulnerable save. The Stormtalon takes out some of the Warriors, though the pesky one with the nasty gun yet lives. Otherwise every gun I have aims for the gaunts and mows them down, I can't muster the dice to wipe the squad but enough damage is done. To complete the turn the Ironclad gets support from his entombed peers who have no issues finishing the best off, and with some Techmarine support the Ironclad begins to repair up ready for the next charge.

Oh, and some spore mines came down on my left flank but are mostly gunned down by my Scouts and Dreadnought.

Turn 3

Things have gone pear shaped for my opponent as my dice are hot, so every attempt he makes meets a sticky end. There's still the flyrant even if he can't win the game. Psychic powers and a charge takes out 7 Marines, but thanks to the Chapter Master there's no need to roll for Leadership The fex charges the right Dread and again he is saved by some lucky 6+++ rolls.

In response it's mostly time to mop up. Shooting has no problem slaying the remaining Warriors, and the combined might of my assault forces have little to fear from the flyrant.

Very little, even if the Ironclad can't make the charge (maybe still in shock at surviving all game). The flyrant's 3++ save is a real pain though and I struggle to deal some wounds before the Venerable pitches in and obliterates the beast's remaining 9 wounds - a brutal victory to the Legio!

What a victory too! Deployment can make or break games, I really did expect my opponent to go for his left flank for set up where he would have much more cover, but what I didn't know was that he wanted the space to move his large squads. I likely unwittingly helped foil that plan by changing my own to counter deploy. That's part of the game though and what helps make it interesting.

It was no death knell of course, but once my guns started firing and the dice gods turn their beneficent gaze upon me I started to mount advantages quickly. I planned to move to the Tactical doctrine as early as turn 2 to try and mow the hordes down but luck would mean that it wasn't necessary, letting my heavy weapons do a lot of talking.

Perhaps the best indicator of who had the luck was the two occasions I rolled two 6+ saves for my vehicles to save them from certain destruction! Though that said, my 6+++ saves did surprisingly well also, so maybe not so certain after all Unfortunately due to how the game went there wasn't much to take away from it.

The Chapter Master is great, at 2CP much improved too (though as ever I must say: should be a unit choice!) as he can make a real fire base. The problem is that it makes you terribly static, if we hadn't rolled a mission that was all about the killing he'd not have been as much use as my forces would have diverged as necessary.

The Iron Hands supplement should alleviate this concern for the most part, as I can - for the first couple of turns or so at least - have my mobile Dreadnoughts back! It's gratifying to see my "usual" style of list (i.e. mostly Dreads) coming into its own finally, I'm keen to try out other units though to see how the do in the new codex.

This was the first time I've used a flyer in 8th too, the Stormtalon did ok. Mostly it was lucky to survive the first turn though the shooting didn't always get results, but I suppose there's only so much luck to go around... The Dreads were great doing their best work in combat against hard targets as always, its why I don't leave home without a DCCW.

Next up, I think some Terminators might be good to try - not just the Cataphractii either. I'd like to get some Assault Marine action in but I'm wondering if the party might well be over by the time I get to the Assault Doctrine (one way or the other...)?

[WarriorFish]

I've been poking through the supplement slowly and there's a lot of good stuff to be had. From a 4+ block of psychic powers (after deny attempts) which will be great to help stop that vital enemy trick going off, a 4+++, 4+ overwatch and more there's a lot to chew. It's like a feast after the famine of the previous codex, the problem is I'm not used to having to remember so many Stratagems
 
My immediate plans are unchanged naturally, the Techmarine and Cataphractii need finishing! But my mind cogitates future work... I want to get my sniper Scouts on the table for old time's sake especially after I stripped them. I've been thinking about my Stormraven for some time now and having seen/felt the might of one long enough I think it's time to add some of my own. It wouldn't hurt to have a more credible answer to enemy air power for once.
 
Then there's that other Ironclad... does anyone have experience with the character Stratagem for Dreads yet? It seems like a lot of fun and might actually help my Ironclad survive long enough to do something I'm also keen to try out Betrayer's Bane, used to love the combi-melta relic back in the day when having an infinite-ammo combi weapon was a big deal
 
Oh, and maybe whisper this one - but is it time for my two Vindies to come out of hiding..?

[Arkaniss]

Wait are Vindicators good again? Is there a strategem to help them? Anyway, the Cataphractii have be waiting a long time to be completed so that will be good to see :)

[WarriorFish]

Good is still to be discerned, but going to a straight D6 shots makes them better against vehicles and the like - enough for them to be back in to consideration :) Fortunately they just need a dust off before getting on the table top unlike the Cataphractii... I will try and get the Techmarine finished first I reckon. He'd be less work and it'd be good to chalk something off the list.

[WarriorFish]

I can almost tick the Techmarine off now, ready for the Cataphractii to follow:

He's done aside from a couple of wires, as you can see from the picture daylight isn't great but I'll finish them off when it is and try for a better picture then

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Good job on the Techmarine.

[WarriorFish]

Now with a better picture and the missing cables:

It's been over 10 years easily since I last painted a Techmarine, I feel like I need to do another now but I'll be good - next for the Legio is the Cataphractii

I've pondered the Vindicators some more and while I will definitely use them (I've dusted them off ready) not for my next planned list. It's a bit heavy on the short ranged fire power so given the choice of swapping the two TLLC Razorbacks out for them I elected to keep them. Next list will begin with the Vindicators and the rest will build around them

[Captain Idaho]

Regarding Vindicators, I suspect they can be quite competitive in the same way a Necron list uses 3 Doomsday Arks.

 

I love Vindicators so I'm really hoping this is the case.

[WarriorFish]

I'm not aware how Doomsday Arks are used, but my assumption was that scooting around delivering D6 powerful shots would be a good way for a couple of Vindies to spend their time I used to use them back in the day to cover anti-armour duties which the pie plates did well (same for Guard) so going to a flat D6 shots against vehicles again (i.e. small "units") is a marked improvement. Anything that is a hard target should be a viable recipient of the dustbin!

[Captain Idaho]

My only disappointment with Vindicators is they don't much scare blobs of infantry. I mean, yeah sure no one individually wants to get hit by one, but 30 Ork Boyz don't much care about D6 shots.

 

Maybe one day I'll get myself 3, likely when GW releases plastic Breachers...

[WarriorFish]

No, but dealing with infantry should be easy enough with other units. Let the specialist units do their work, and have the supporting elements cover for them. With the bolter rules Tacticals can put some hurt on hordes, and with nearby Dreads also to lend a hand it's not so bad. Add in the specialist anti-infantry units and you can make it work

 

I always thought that rather than just a buff to the minimum they should have further bonuses for ever larger units. So maybe something like D6 shots per up to every 10 models. Part of the swerve to a hordes edition in 8th was the removal of the blast markers. While this was done to help speed things up which is good, GW neglected to note that pie plates being thrown around was one of the answers to hordes... A conversation for another time and place though!

 

 

I'm thinking about the Cataphractii weapons load outs and I'm a bit stumped. Originally I wanted something a bit different in lightning claws, let them go to town on enemy infantry. However with the changes lightning claws have alas returned to being a bit pricey by comparison for what you get Should I swap to power fists? Not sure if I should still keep the heavy off, help keep costs down.