[HH1.0] Thousand Sons tactica

[BrotherLeonidas]

How will upgrading Veteran Tacticals with Mastery Level 1 work, can they choose from any psychic discipline, and then also pick an Arcana?

[1ncarnadine]

How will upgrading Veteran Tacticals with Mastery Level 1 work, can they choose from any psychic discipline, and then also pick an Arcana?

 

Correct. Arcana does not have to match, but if it does they get a +1 to manifest when making a Psychic test. 

 

Think those mixed squads from A Thousand Sons vs a unit that is more devoted to one Cult.

 

Prosperine Lore says that any Psykers within Thousand Sons have access to all psychic disciplines found in the 40k BRB except Malefic Daemonology. Note, this means you can take Sanctic, but if you do it does not match any Arcana (and comes with more Perils risks, which this army wants to avoid at all costs).

[BrotherLeonidas]

Ok, so the Arcana and disciplines would match up like this?

 

Pyrae - Pyromancy

Corvidae - Divination

Pavoni - Biomancy

Raptora - Telekinesis

Atheaneans - Telepathy

[Nusquam]

Ahhh yes the falchions, perfect thanks.

 

Trying to figure out a first draft of a 2.5k Crimson RoW. I'm thinking Vet Tacs to fill out the ranks. Marksmen and the Asphyx shells seem perfect. Throw in two flamers. Then upgrade to Brotherhood of Psykers, perhaps go for Divination. Then you'll have twin-linked, shred, precise shots, and not!rending for 235 points on 10 marines. That's pretty good, definitely an equivalent to the traditional 'Legion Specific Unit'. Not quite sure which Cult to give them. Corvidae seem logical if I'm using Divination, but the trade off is that the passive buff is only usable if you're stationary. I suppose if you landed on an objective you could just have them as batteries, or maybe use ignores cover if you got lucky. Plus you can use the 40k rubric marines for some awesome models.

 

Alternatively you could go Weapon Master, Pavoni, Biomancy in an Anvillus with power weapons. That'd be choppy. Maybe swap one out for an Apothecary.

 

Regular Legion Termis get deepstrike too in this RoW. While they don't have W2 like the Sekhmet, they do get to roll on any school. Hmn.

 

So Far I'm at one tricked out ML3 Praetor, 2x5 Sekhmet with combi plas and axes, 2x10 tricked out Vet squads, two Sicaran Venators, and a max Blade Cabal in a Storm Eagle for 2315. Has acceptable AA and AT... Might cut the Venators and just take my Atrapos or something.

[Withershadow]

Having seen the datasheets, I am very happy with the Castellax, because I now have a reason to use my Mauler-equipped Castellax.

 

This would be a CQB unit for me, so mandatory power blades is not a problem at all. Losing targeting arrays as an option is not a terrible thing, since I would want a mob of 3-4 of these guys, and that gets super expensive. Losing flamers is the sorest spot, but is acceptable in exchange for getting shred on the mauler and bolters. Then you get I4 (regular Castellax are I3), can sweep (regular Castellax only do so with Scoria), still fire 3 weapons, and even when outside of control range can maintain relative autonomy (regular castellax go after closest target), get a refractor field for 5+ in melee (Mechanicum gets 6+), and get It Will Not Die. These guys will just pile on the pinning wounds from range, and up close get three S6 AP2 I4 attacks each. Frag grenades would have been nice as an option, but you can't have everything.

 

I would take 4 stock and toss in a plasma cannon to kill the artificer Sgt and let the AP3 maulers do their thing. I wouldn't want to take multiple plasma cannons if only just to keep costs manageable. Then the survivors will be on fire, and forced to take pinning tests at reduced leadership. Solid unit for 555 points. Their only real drawback is being a heavy support choice.

 

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The terminators are fairly costed at base, it only gets a bit unfair once you're 10-strong.   Raptora is the obvious choice here for 4+ or 3+ invulnerable saves. The 40K models will make easy stand-ins for Tartaros with Swords to clean chaff-units. I'll probably make one of those and hopefully FW will make a Cataphractii-based unit that I'll arm with fists and axes so I can have best of both worlds. As Raptora you could manifest TK powers on 3+, but I don't really see any great powers for them out of that discipline except Objuration Mechanicum. Levitation would be nice if you could charge after the jump, but you cannot.  However, after deep striking it would allow you to redeploy 12". Telekine dome would give nearby Raptora a 4+ against shooting, which is something I guess.

 

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The blade cult is wicked, but a bit pricey at full size for essentially a power armor unit that annihilates other power armor units in melee. They are sweet and I'll make a unit out of them for sure, but in the grand scheme of things there are cheaper ways to murder power armored units than 440 points for a 10-man unit in a dreadclaw.  Depending on what they roll on Biomancy, could be downright evil. Only the non-primaris witchfires would be a disappointing result.

 

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The scouts aren't as bad as folks say (and I have high hopes sniper rifles will gain something...like pinning... with the new edition and FW adopts it). Yes it would have been nice to get 1 special weapon in 3 like the Mor Deythan, and thus encourage a fluffy 9-strong unit.   Still, with infiltrate, scout and a nuncio vox they can be a good forward unit for deep striking lists. Give them a meltagun and a meltabomb, and just go hunting vehicles. If they get mixed in in melee, they have BP+CCW for 2 base attacks and their mind bullets power actually lets you re-roll to hit and to wound in melee as well.  I agree that shotguns wound have been a great option here.

 

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Azhek and Mr Kingsley are both great characters, but note that their cults force your troops to take the same.  Magnus broken as stated above. Dreadnought just solid. Shatter on veterans also very solid.

 

All in all, I wouldn't call "most powerful army in game" just yet (other than Magnus), since you do pay for every benefit. For example, sure, you can have a Veteran squad that has Divination for re-rolling to hit, and re-rolls to wound with their shredding sniper bolters, but you are paying 45 points for the privilege regardless of the unit's size. The temptation to overspend can be very strong. It will be interesting to see if the amount of force charges which we have never seen before in 30K even with Word Bearer/Daemon forces will up-end the game.  I don't see it being a big problem unless you're running a summon train, which was always a big power anomaly in 30K.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Withershadow

[Athrawes]

It's worth point out that the Sekhmet Terminator Cabal says it may CHOOSE its powers from Pyromancy and Telekinesis. Every other Psyker entry in the book specifically says "Generate psychic powers from ________"

 

Pyromancy and Telekinesis are sort of sub par psychic disciplines so it is nice that the Sekhmet at least get to choose their powers.

 

Normally I'd chock this up to a typo, but considering that the wording is identical for every other Thousand Sons units, I'd say that the Sekhmet can definitely choose their powers rather than roll.

[Slips]

Welp. Then this is a thing that you could do that might prove hilarious ESPECIALLY if youre playing against a Cult Levy Spammer:

 

Damocles Command Rhino for 24" No scatter DS Bubble

Sekhmet Terminators Squads to taste, take the Pyromancy Nova Power, in a Dreadclaw

 

Deepstrike in T1/2 with no Scatter

Hop out

Pray to RNGesus for rolls to manifest

If successful, pray again for 2d6 roll

????

Profit!

[Nusquam]

Yeah the 'choose' wording looks deliberate for the Sekhmet; every other one says generate so it's not copy/pasted. That makes them considerably better. I'd take random powers from other disciplines first but hey, it's something.

 

Molten Beam and Maelstrom stand out the most. If you take Raptora for the +1 to invul then you can attempt to harness WC for Maelstrom on a 3+, increasing the chance of it going off. Levitation offers some mobility after you deepstrike in a Crimson RoW; you can safety DS far away and then move up 12" and fire of combi weapons. Objuration might be good for any nearby units that will shoot up the termis too. Fiery Form wouldn't be too bad either, once you get into melee, or on Raptora Tartaros to give them a 3++. It's only WC1 too.

[Withershadow]

That distinction makes a huge difference, holy crap.

 

I assume their weapon option is a typo? "May exchange their force weapon for a power fist with one of the following: power fist"? Or is it intentional for them to have two fists while also apparently somehow handling their storm-bolters. A unit of mini-Calgars? :D

Edited February 4, 2017 by Withershadow

[Nusquam]

That's pretty funny.

 

There's a lot of combos you can do with them.

 

You can do 5 Raptora with 5 combi-plas, cataphractii ofr a 3++, levitation, and molten beam. Use the Crimson RoW, deepstrike them in, levitate to a good spot to molten beam a bunch of guys, or vehicle if it doesn't have AC.

 

Raptora Tartaros in a Ram or Eagle, Fiery Form for a 3++, and Maelstrom to nuke something.

 

You could also add in a Primus Medicae with a ML to taste. Any IC in the Crimson RoW can deepstrike too. The Primus can roll on Biomancy. Endurance would be insane on them, Leech life could keep them alive, and the rest are just good.

[Athrawes]

Yeah I think Raptora are the way to go with deepstriking Sekhmet, for the 3++ rerolling 1's in the Crimson Rite of war. As for Psychic powers, I'd just double down with Telekinesis and pick Levitate for some mobility and Maelstrom. I would however pretty much always deepstrike them with a Biomancy Librarian/praetor or even just ML 1 Primus Medicae to make them rock hard survivable. 

[Supe robot gangster #1]

What slot does the new automata take up? And who has access to the new plasma cannon?

[Withershadow]

Why only 5? That's when you are paying the most points. Since you are deep striking, you are not confined by transport capacity.  Each additional guy with a combi-weapon is so cheap, I would be tempted to run 7. With a pair of chainfists and combi-weapons all around, that's 380 points.

[N1SB]

I'm repeating what I said on the HH Weekender news & rumours thread here, but I'm pretty excited for the Raptura Guard of the Crimson King, i.e. the 3++ Red Army.  I'm NOT saying it's best army of all time, but if anyone ever wanted to do an all/near-all TDA army, this really is the best option for that I think.

[N1SB]

Ok, so the Arcana and disciplines would match up like this?

 

Pyrae - Pyromancy

Corvidae - Divination

Pavoni - Biomancy

Raptora - Telekinesis

Atheaneans - Telepathy

 

Yes, you got it all right :D

[Nusquam]

What slot does the new automata take up? And who has access to the new plasma cannon?

 

Heavy and the new automata can take it and anyone with a plasma canon can swap it

 

 

Why only 5? That's when you are paying the most points. Since you are deep striking, you are not confined by transport capacity.  Each additional guy with a combi-weapon is so cheap, I would be tempted to run 7. With a pair of chainfists and combi-weapons all around, that's 380 points.

 

Was just an example. Throwing in a chainfist or two would be a good idea too. I keep making lists and the lack in AT. Deepstriking Raptora Cataphractii with levitate and Maelstrom, with a chainfist or two sprinkled in would do wonders. You could blast one thing with Maelstrom and combi-plas another. Then punch out most things.

 

• A Suped up Raptora Praetor with ML3 and trimmings taking the Crimson RoW.
• 2 Pavoni Primus Medicaes with a power weapon, boarding shield, and ML1 rolling on biomancy. One for each Sekhmet.
• 2x10 Corvidae Vet Tacs with ML1, Asphyx ammo, and two flamers in dozer blade rhinos.
• 2x7 Raptora Sekhmet with 5 combi plas, 2 chainfists, cataphractii with Levitation and Maelstrom
• Xiphon
• 2 Sicaran Venators with dozers

Runs me at 2440. Up to 11 plus the better of 2d6 warp charges.

 

The Sekhmets could deepstrike out of the Augery interceptor range and then levitate in after interceptor could fire.

 

The vet tacs look bloated, but compare them to other legion specifics and theyre cheaper for all the stuff they have. They roll on Div, always wound on at least a 4+ with shred, precision shots, and AP2 on a 6 to wound. May swap the flamers for plasmaguns since they wont be charging. Probably add Artificer Armor and a power weapon on the sarge too.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Nusquam

[Withershadow]

I must be missing a rules page, so not only Praetors, but ALL Consuls can take mastery levels?

[Supe robot gangster #1]

I must be missing a rules page, so not only Praetors, but ALL Consuls can take mastery levels?

From what I've read praetors can get up to ML3 whereas centurions/ consuls can take only ML1 and take a force weapon.

[Nusquam]

Any non-psyker IC can take one master level and swap a power weapon they have for a force weapon at a cost

[Mango Polo]

Keep in mind that Veterans cannot be troops with the Thousand Sons unique ROWS and characters.

 

e. I checked and Zardy Layak has the same wording: he can choose powers from Pyromancy and Daemonology. And everyone agrees, Zardu gets to cherry pick. So I agree, the Sekhmet are absolutely getting to pick their powers.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Mango Polo

[Nusquam]

Veterans don't need to be troops, they have scoring, and the RoW forces you to take Sekhmet as troops anyway.

[Athrawes]

Looking at the rules for the Castellax-Achea

 

I have two questions:

 

1. Where can I find the rules for Power Claws? I can't seem to find them in any of the other black books.
2. What is the Aether-flame cannon? is it the same as the Aether-fire cannon? If not, where can I find rules for it?

[helterskelter]

I can't see a flame cannon in the pages I've acquired

[Athrawes]

I can't see a flame cannon in the pages I've acquired

 

Yeah, all I see in my copy is the Aether-fire cannon so I'm wondering if it's just a typo and they are both the same thing.

[N1SB]

 

Looking at the rules for the Castellax-Achea

1. Where can I find the rules for Power Claws? I can't seem to find them in any of the other black books.

 

 

Oh, you mean the Castellax Power Blades?  Hang on, we got it in the Mechanicum Red Book:

 

Battle-automata Power Blades, Str: User, AP: 2, Type: Melee, Rending, Paired Weapons (Battle-automata power blades are paired weapons and so add +1 to the model's attacks and counts as being two-handed)