[HH1.0] Thousand Sons tactica

[1ncarnadine]

AND WE HAVE THE BEST ROTOR CANNONS IN THE GAME!!!! Look at that Shred + Corvidae to re-roll 1's bonus (because you're standing still for Salvo anyway). YEAH. Yeah. yeahh.....

 

Actually I kind of wonder if that's ok-ish? Maybe just for fun? OK, I'm just looking for an excuse to model those neat Proteus Pattern Rotor Cannons they released a ways back.

 

 

I missed that the Osiron is an HQ, it just uses contemptor options. Not a huge deal considering we have 3 slots.

 

They're not an HQ as far as I'm aware? The HQ icon is on their page, but that icon is on every page of their Legion rules and upgrading an Elites Contemptor to an Osiron is just part of the Legion rules. 

Edited February 5, 2017 by LetsYouDown

[Mango Polo]

The unique units list says they are an HQ choice. It's a very odd thing not to mention it on the unit profile, but eh.

[1ncarnadine]

The unique units list says they are an HQ choice. It's a very odd thing not to mention it on the unit profile, but eh.

 

Oh, you're absolutely right. But you can take a talon of them as a single HQ, technically? That's... something. 

[Charlo]

So sorry to ask but does anyone have a scan of the 1KSon rules akin to the wolves/ talons/ titan guard ones floating about?

 

As for the rules, they're super cool - I'm not sold on the blade guys (crunch is good but those models....) but the fact you can apply transfers to everyone to show their cult per squad is just amazing.

[Withershadow]

That would be nice, since I'm still missing a couple of Thousand Sons pages while having everything on everybody else. Have we seen Blade Cabal models already? I have just seen the Osiron dreadnought (awesome), and the Sekhmet (awesome).

 

AND WE HAVE THE BEST ROTOR CANNONS IN THE GAME!!!! Look at that Shred + Corvidae to re-roll 1's bonus (because you're standing still for Salvo anyway). YEAH. Yeah. yeahh.....

 

Actually I kind of wonder if that's ok-ish? Maybe just for fun? OK, I'm just looking for an excuse to model those neat Proteus Pattern Rotor Cannons they released a ways back.

 

 

I missed that the Osiron is an HQ, it just uses contemptor options. Not a huge deal considering we have 3 slots.

 

They're not an HQ as far as I'm aware? The HQ icon is on their page, but that icon is on every page of their Legion rules and upgrading an Elites Contemptor to an Osiron is just part of the Legion rules. 

The Dreadnought is indeed an HQ.  This book seems to have worse editing than usual, technically you can't take the mandatory force blade since Contemptors have a twin-linked bolter, not a combi-bolter.

 

Regarding rotors, it's nice. The reroll effectively makes them S~4.5, wounding marines a little more than half the time. A full squad of 10 (to make it most economical) is 25 points less than a 10-man squad of Calivers. Same range, same irrelevant AP, but the rotors have 2x the firepower, or can shoot 3 times at half range if they move. Assuming standing still and re-rolling 1s, the guns compare as follows:

 

20 Caliver shots result in an average of 12.8 wounds, and any failed saves cause additional hits. 40 rotor cannon shots average 17.4 wounds (i.e. 3 dead terminators). I think this would be a very solid backfield scoring unit, holding down an objective and hosing down any infantry foolish enough to come near them, and remaining functional if they have to redeploy.  Only 210 points for a full squad with an artificer Sgt. You may want to drop a rotor for an augury scanner (so above numbers change to 11.5 and 15.7 wounds respectively).

 

Another interesting thing to note, despite having effectively a khopesh on a stick, Ahriman counts as having an axe, so using the Sekhmet terminator "power swords" as "force axes" should be A-OK.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Withershadow

[Nusquam]

They can be a Talon as an HQ. That's so weird. Doesn't really change much unless you were filling up on Elites.

 

As for the rotor cannons, shred does help. Them being a free swap for the flamers helped too. For 125 points with Corvidae you'd kill about 2-3 marines at 30", vs the same points in tacs at 12" would kill 2-3. For 200 points you'd get 40 shots at 30" killing about 6 marines. Where as if you didn't have shred it'd be about 3 or 4. Not bad, considering they're also scoring.

 

Now compare that to 195 points of 7 heavy bolters. That's 3-4 dead marines with Corvidae.

 

205 points of calivers is 9. They kill in total after delfag 5 or 6 marines. Also scoring and slightly better AP, but are heavy instead of savlo. On the move at half range the shredding rotors would kill about 4 marines.

 

I'd say that makes them go from 'objectively bad' to simply a decent option. Which, relatively, is great. I think they'd do well as support troops for Sekhmet in a Crimson RoW. The candy red metallic FW paint scheme with those new cannon kits would look absolutely mint.

 

I've also figured out what I'd use for AA in my lists. I have two vengeance weapon batteries and icaraus quad lascannons. Set them up on opposing sides of my deployment and let them do their thing.

[BrotherLeonidas]

So with a Raptora ML3 Praetor, what kind of psychic powers should you be shopping for? Biomancy/Telepathy for buffs, or an easier to cast Maelstrom?

[Halandaar]

That would be nice, since I'm still missing a couple of Thousand Sons pages while having everything on everybody else. Have we seen Blade Cabal models already? I have just seen the Osiron dreadnought (awesome), and the Sekhmet (awesome).

From Battle Bunnies;

 

I think it's a bit of a shame that so many legion unique units are in the form of upgrade kits now, because it actually makes them more expensive to buy than a full resin squad of 5 would be.

[Nusquam]

If you want to go full-tilt competitive, everyone who could be fishing for invis, should. A Praetor and two libbies with max ML.

 

Barring that you can't go wrong with Biomancy, especially attached to Sekhmet.

[Charlo]

Really liking the rotor cannons, and for some good conversions you could use the 40k soulreapers... WHICH have a little bird skull on which is the symbol for which cult? CORVIDAE! It all adds up beautifully.

 

Also... You take the Guard of the Crimson King RoW and you can bring another LoW right? As Magnus is HQ.... Right?

[Nusquam]

Right... but you'd have to have a gentleman's agreement not to utterly break the game with Magnus, or no one will play it. Taking effectively a second LoW won't help the case either...

[Charlo]

Right... but you'd have to have a gentleman's agreement not to utterly break the game with Magnus, or no one will play it. Taking effectively a second LoW won't help the case either...

 

DW if I ever play with them, unless it's literally a tournament I'd politely ask my opponent if I can just re-roll invis, that -1 to hit with it is broke.

[Withershadow]

Interesting models on the Blade Cult, I may make my own by borrowing the Emperors' Children Swords of a Thousand Forges practice, and have a wide variety of blades in the unit.  Not sure I like the design of those swords, and the torsos seem kind of chunky. Still, slap those arms and heads on some Rubric Marines, and I think you have a neat-looking unit.

 

Using Soul Reapers would look cool, but would be pretty expensive too. Only bits sellers I've seen want like $7 for one.

 

I'm surprised to see models for the Castellax, although they do look all kinds of badass.  I wonder if folks would have issues with me using the regular ones?

Edited February 5, 2017 by Withershadow

[Halandaar]

Still, slap those arms and heads on some Rubric Marines, and I think you have a neat-looking unit.

 

I think that's what I'll be doing too.

[Nusquam]

 

Still, slap those arms and heads on some Rubric Marines, and I think you have a neat-looking unit.

 

 

I think that's what I'll be doing too.

Fund it. Third.

 

Whats funny is that their armor in-lore is artificer grade and looks up armored too. Ah well.

[Athrawes]

So, for the most part with Magnus I'm perfectly fine with him throwing around D blasts using Mind Wrath, as most of those will be Ap 4 or ap 5. Strong, but not crazy.

 

But out of courtesy,I think I'm going to avoid these four Powers:

 

• Invisibility: makes him literally impossible to hit if it goes off.
• Sunburst: Normally every unit within 9" of caster takes 2d6, ignores cover Str 4, AP 5 hits. But Mind Wrath makes this silly. Doubles range and makes it str D (only needing to show 6 on two d6), which means a 36" bubble, where every unit touched takes 2d6 Str D, ignores cover hits. Yeah, they are AP 5, but still it is really disgusting to think about.
• Cleansing Flame: Nova, same exact problem as Sunburst
• Shockwave: Nova, same exact problem as Sunburst

 

The fact that Novas auto hit all units in range (bubble of 36"), only effects enemy units, and can hit/effect models in close combat is beyond broken.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Athrawes

[Withershadow]

19" radius circle, so everyone behind you is searing their retinas too.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Withershadow

[Athrawes]

19" radius circle, so everyone behind you is searing their retinas too.

 

Yeah, but just take the Crimson RoW and deep strike him in the center of your opponents army.  In fact Nova powers like this only effect enemy models, so you can cast this even with your own army nearby and not hurt them. 

 

On average he is going to cause 14 hp of damage to each vehicle in range, so goodbye any tank your opponent has. 

 

It's not funny, is pretty unfair, and should be avoided by any Thousand sons player who doesn't want to be the worst dick in the game.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Athrawes

[jgascoine011]

I am still a bit confused with some of the TS rules, especially the cult rules.

 

So from what I understand every model/unit must belong to a cult, and each unit can belong to a separate cult (except for compulsory troops and warlord).

Is this correct?

 

If so can a sicarian battle tank belong to Corvidae and re-roll 1's?

Or a leviathan dread get Raptora for a 3++?

 

I am guessing no, and that the rules are each unit with legion astartaes: TS must pick 1 of the cults.

However does the TS psychic dreadnought have the LA:TS rule?

 

 

 

Other than that, what are people thinking for army lists?

So far I am thinking of veteran squads with 2 heavy bolters, Marksmen rule, Corvidae, asphyx ammo and brotherhood of psykers for troops

This just seems broken, I mean 15-24 shots, hitting on 3's re-rolling 1's, wounding on 4's with  re-roll and 6's are precision shots/rending

 

Then take Ahriman and shove him in a heavy support squad with Volkite culverins & corvidae

40, S6 shots, re-rolling 1's, with the possibility to ignore cover, get rending, have a 4++ etc

 

Oh and the TS terminators with raptora for 3++, and levitation/maelstrom 

 

The only real turds I see are

1) Khenetai occult as short of taking biomancy and hoping for Endurance and then pairing them up with Magnus and rolling all 5 of his powers on telepath and hoping for invisibility I just think they wont do much other than die rather quickly and that combo is just too cheesy

1) The new TS dreadnought because 50 pts for ML1 and no way to increase it is rather disappointing

 

 

Also, apart from the heavy support squad with lots of rending S6 shots, what are people thinking to use as dedicated Anti-tank?

With the rest of the list being so good at anti-infantry, I was thinking of using 2 laser destroyer vindicators

[Apostle of the 30th Host]

How do the Cult Arcana interact with one another in terms of characters joining squads? i.e. If a Corvidae Praetor joined a Raptora Terminator Squad.

 

The wording in the photo of the page only says 'the unit', so unless there is a restriction later on it would seem they overlap? For example, the stealth special rule applies to the unit if one model has it so this seems like it works the same.

 

Does that mean that you can stack benefits on units? Like in the example below the Praetor gains the +1 Inv while conferring the re-roll 1s.

[1ncarnadine]

am guessing no, and that the rules are each unit with legion astartaes: TS must pick 1 of the cults.

However does the TS psychic dreadnought have the LA:TS rule?

 

Correct, vehicles don't get cults, and the Osiron Contemptor is not LA(TS). This also means it can't fire psychic powers through Castellax-Achea, interestingly enough, and neither can Magnus.

 

 

How do the Cult Arcana interact with one another in terms of characters joining squads? i.e. If a Corvidae Praetor joined a Raptora Terminator Squad.

 

The wording in the photo of the page only says 'the unit', so unless there is a restriction later on it would seem they overlap? For example, the stealth special rule applies to the unit if one model has it so this seems like it works the same.

 

Does that mean that you can stack benefits on units? Like in the example below the Praetor gains the +1 Inv while conferring the re-roll 1s.

 

I think "the unit" can be a single model. So if you buy some Apothecaries and make them non-Raptora and have them join a unit of Raptora tacticals, the Apothecaries themselves don't get the +1 invuln bonus. Does that make sense? 

[Nusquam]

The only real turds I see are

1) Khenetai occult as short of taking biomancy and hoping for Endurance and then pairing them up with Magnus and rolling all 5 of his powers on telepath and hoping for invisibility I just think they wont do much other than die rather quickly and that combo is just too cheesy

1) The new TS dreadnought because 50 pts for ML1 and no way to increase it is rather disappointing

 

 

Also, apart from the heavy support squad with lots of rending S6 shots, what are people thinking to use as dedicated Anti-tank?

With the rest of the list being so good at anti-infantry, I was thinking of using 2 laser destroyer vindicators

 

Khenetai are quality, for the first 5 guys you're paying 27 points(using vets as a base of 10 points+a special rule) for two force blades(which are worth 30 alone, even as redundant as having two is), WS5(It's actually 6 at 5 models), and ML1. Then the additional models are only paying 13 models for their kit, with a scaling rule that gets better the more they have thus increasing the savings. They're like Dark Furies, they get a lot of essentially free stuff. At 10 models they have 51 WS6 AP3 Instant Death attacks at I4. That's three dead multi-wound termis at I4. Or 17 dead marines, apothecary or not. If they get Iron Arm or Warp Speed it's all over if they get into melee. I won't even do the crunch on those, they'll atomize most things. Endurance would keep them going, Leech Life would help keep an attached IC alive(or psybot if you stick close to them), Enfeeble would stop fists from ID'ing them so you could benefit from an attached apothecary. Haemorrhage is interesting, it could help snipe out Sarges with fists because it just forces two toughness tests or die; there's nothing to "Look Out, Sir!". If anything it would augment Smite like Life Leech. Really, there isn't a bad power on Bio for them if you have an Apoth with them.

 

The Osiron gets more than just a ML; it also gets a S10 AP2 force weapon to murder anything with a toughness in CC, and Asphyx bolts. Powers on a Dread alone are crazy good.

 

For AT I'm using deep-striking levitating Sekhmet with Molten Beam and a few chainfists. I want to like Maelstrom but WC3, even with a 3+ to harness, would eat a lot of charges. Plus the beam is so very exploitable due to the nature of Beam rules, more so with levitate. Beyond that I'm still playing with lists. I keep going back to two venators as well. I'm personally against Lightnings because I already have one in my RG, but they're always quality.

[Withershadow]

What powers would you really take on the Dreadnought given its limited selection of disciplines? Divination to give a nearby unit re-rolls seems the most dependable choice, but with Corvidae on your shooting elements that point is kind of moot.

[Learn2Eel]

Try and fish for Invisibility? If not, just Psychic Shriek things I guess? I'm not sure. Prescience is good in conjunction with the Khenetai though as it lets them roll on Biomancy instead. 

[Nusquam]

Prescience is to hit in shooting and melee. Cast it on himself and go to town on things, or Sekhmet, or Khenetai. There is no bad power for him in Divination with the right kit.

 

Telepathy is also quality. You can't go wrong with either.