[HH1.0] Thousand Sons tactica

[Mango Polo]

Regular Apothecaries are not IC ;)

[Zeratil]

Thanks, I also found the FAQ entry second time around. It seems clear that the intent is you join him to some Ammitara as their rules complement each other well. Setup in some ruins for a 2+ cover save from the start of the game. I'm not sure it's worth the points, and it leaves your IC that lacks an inv out with a not very durable squad especially if you're going 2nd.

[Mango Polo]

An alternate thought is Seekers + Proteus + Exploratory Web + Amon held in Reserve. Maybe even use Amon's auto-arrive ability on his own unit to guarantee a turn 2 appearance... but if you are going second, you are most likely wasting his bubble.

 

Blah. I'm sorry Amon, I love you, but you might be relegated to secondary HQ role at 2k points and above. Alternatively, second HQ at sub-2k with a Delegatus. He has quasi Praetor stats and ML3 for cheaper than a make-your-own which is nice.

[1ncarnadine]

I think that's fine, honestly. His WL trait is ok but he gives enough bonuses without it. He's an obvious candidate to roll all on Telepathy, too. Maybe you'll get Invisibility, maybe you'll get Shrouding? Both are good for what he wants to do, and that's hang out with the Ammitara, provide a crazy no-fly bubble and make himself and his unit impossible to shift with a ridiculous cover save or invisibility. 

 

You may even be able to dick around with things via Hallucination or Dominate. Or cast Invisibility on other units from his advanced position? Honestly still not seeing him or the Ammitara as all that bad so far. Not great, but I wouldn't mind using them at all.

Edited February 6, 2017 by LetsYouDown

[Charlo]

The sniper guys are really cool and they occupy a greatly uncontested spot: Fast Attack, so they're easy to fit in.

 

Rerolls are powerful.

[TemujinZero]

Rerolls are powerful.  That WC2 power they have to harness on 4s almost doubles their damage output vs MEQ.  The problem is that sniper rifles are terrible - without their unique blessing, 5 of them will kill about 1 marine a turn.  After you throw 5 or more dice on that power, assuming you don't blow up your army in the process, that doubles to 2 marines a turn.  In either case, their chances of assassinating anything important are dismal.  If they have nice models, they'll make for a pretty nuncio vox caddy that can be infiltrated to allow for no scatter Sekhmet teleports.  Any greater expectations are likely misplaced.

[Halandaar]

That's if they get models at all, as FW seem to be reluctant to do anything in Scout Armour.

[Zeratil]

The sniper guys are really cool and they occupy a greatly uncontested spot: Fast Attack, so they're easy to fit in.

 

Rerolls are powerful.

I actually find FA incredibly contested, Seekers, Speeders, Javelin, MB Jetbikes and the Lightning are all really good, and Seeker and Jetbikes get better with TS. Outside of that the Xiphon, Storm Eagle, Outriders and Dreadclaw are more situationally great. Only the tarantula is so-so.

[Mango Polo]

 

The sniper guys are really cool and they occupy a greatly uncontested spot: Fast Attack, so they're easy to fit in.

 

Rerolls are powerful.

I actually find FA incredibly contested, Seekers, Speeders, Javelin, MB Jetbikes and the Lightning are all really good, and Seeker and Jetbikes get better with TS. Outside of that the Xiphon, Storm Eagle, Outriders and Dreadclaw are more situationally great. Only the tarantula is so-so.

 

Agreed, FA is an extremely competitive slot.

Another problem with Amon in an Ammitara squad... his weapons have zero synergy.

 

I'm thinking at low/mid-points either a Delegatus with Chosen Duty, or Ahriman with Pride of the Legion, as solid options.

 

2x Vets w/ Corvidae as the compulsory choices, 1x Breachers w/ Raptora scouting up midfield, Legion Cataphractii peppered in. Solid core.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Mango Polo

[jgascoine011]

The sniper guys are really cool and they occupy a greatly uncontested spot: Fast Attack, so they're easy to fit in.

 

Rerolls are powerful.

 

The problem i see with them is why bother taking them over sniper vets with Asphyx ammo, Brotherhood of Psykers and Corvidae Cult.

With Heavy Bolters, they put out more shots, can move and shoot, and re-roll 1's to hit and all to wound rolls without needing to use any warp charges.

And if you really want to, you can use 1 warp charge to do exactly the same thing as the Ammitaras, only much better (and you cast it on a 3+, instead of needing 2 4+)

Oh and they are scoring

And can take rhinos.

 

The only time the Ammitaras are better is at ranges of 24-36".

However they have to sit still to shoot, while sniper vets can move and shoot...soo, really its only at ranges of 30-36" where they are better.

 

Edit: oh and their weapons are S4/S5 with rending instead of S1 with rending so can even hurt light tanks...honestly, i am starting if forgeworld ever thinks through their rules sometimes

Edited February 6, 2017 by jgascoine011

[Slips]

Ill say it again but Sniper USR =/= Rending.

[Zeratil]

Ill say it again but Sniper USR =/= Rending.

 

Indeed, and against vehicles sniper weapons are S4. Neither are better at killing tanks than normal bolters. Although Vets that roll misfortune could do it by making their target suffer Rending.

 

 It should also be noted that the Ammitara's power combines the effects of prescience, Asphyx and perfect timing into one WC1 power. Vets can never match that because even if they roll Perfect Timing they need 3 WC and to casr 2 powers in a single turn, which they can't do.

 

 Ammitara aren't amazing, but they're not as redundant as people say, they're just rather niche. If they had Impacable Advance I think they'd go from Okay to Very Good.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Zeratil

[jgascoine011]

Ill say it again but Sniper USR =/= Rending.

 

Yea, i was getting confused with old rules.

Still, you can take the odd pot shot at AV10/11...and might roll up Misfortune, especially if you have Ahriman.

 

Anyway my point still stand, sniper vets are just much better than the Ammitara's which is a shame 

[jgascoine011]

 

Ill say it again but Sniper USR =/= Rending.

 

Indeed, and against vehicles sniper weapons are S4. Neither are better at killing tanks than normal bolters. Although Vets that roll misfortune could do it by making their target suffer Rending.

 

 It should also be noted that the Ammitara's power combines the effects of prescience, Asphyx and perfect timing into one WC1 power. Vets can never match that because even if they roll Perfect Timing they need 3 WC and to casr 2 powers in a single turn, which they can't do.

 

 Ammitara aren't amazing, but they're not as redundant as people say, they're just rather niche. If they had Impacable Advance I think they'd go from Okay to Very Good.

 

 

 

Ahh I was forgetting they had ignore cover.

Well if you get really lucky, then you might be able to kill the odd sergent or lascannon dude

[Mango Polo]

Moving on from Amon, Ahriman is an odd character. Feels like Pride of the Legion is the best way to run him; Guard of the Crimson King would make for pretty bleh compulsory Sekhmet.

 

Two x10 Corvidae Veterans as the compulsory choices, a Raptora Breacher to Scout ahead. Solid core to work from.

[Black Cohort]

Don't all troop choices have to have the same cult as the warlord?

[Mango Polo]

No, only the compulsory troops. That's why Pride works well for Ahriman: make the Veterans Corvidae, and the rest can pick whatever they want.

 

It's also why a generic Praetor would be a better pick for the Crimson ROW, as Ahriman is forced to make the two Sekhmet termies Corvidae.

[Angmarred]

The more I read I really think Asphyx Marksmen Vets are the real winners here. Running Pride, even with Raptora as Troops i think they're pretty solid. I'm thinking a Pride list with 3 vet squads, an assault squad with a beatstick Biomancy Praetor, 2 support Consuls (Chaplain and Primus?) as a pseudo deathstar and then whatever AT support you can muster. A Biomancy Praetor can potentially out out a ton of s8 ap2 wounds at initiative

[Athrawes]

Don't all troop choices have to have the same cult as the warlord?

 

On the two compulsory troops choices.

[Withershadow]

Interesting, I find bikes of both varieties infinitely better than FA jetbikes. The Scouts seem fine to me, not amazing but usable. Implacable advance would make them very good, but we can't have ALL the cake.

[jgascoine011]

OK so thinking about this for a 2K List

 

ROW: Pride of the Legion

 

HQ

Ahriman

 

Command Squad

+2 Chosen, Volkite Chargers

 

Osirion Dreadnough

Plasma Cannon with Aether-fire upgrade.

 

 

Elites

10 Sekhmet Terminators

Raptora Cult, 2 Chain Fists, Asphyx Shells

 

 

Troops

3 Units of 10 Marksmen Veterans with Corvidae Cult

All have:

2 Heavy Bolters, Asphyx Shells, Rhino

 

 

Heavy Support

2 Vindicator Laser Destroyers

 

 

 

This is not the most competitive list, but I am trying to keep it somewhat fluffy

Ahriman joins the command squad or terminator squad. Pretty much use the laser destroyers to blow up transports, then shoot the infantry to death. Ahriman will be used to just buff the squads.

 

 

 

Going up to 3k I add:

Magnus the Red

 

10 Khenetai Occults belonging to Pavoni Cult

 

Anvillus Drop Pod

 

Sicarian Tank Destroyer

 

 

Now this is where it gets sick

Magnus joins the terminators and rolls either all on biomancy or telekensis (I dont want to cheese it up with invisibility).

The terminators teleport Magnus around and he just blow :cuss up with his witch fire powers.

 

The Kenetai come in with the drop pod, assulting on turn 2.

 

The sicarian is there for anti-titan duty.

 

The only thing i would maybe do is drop the Osirion Dreadnough for heavy support squad with volkite weapons and put Ahriman in with them.

[Withershadow]

Heavy bolters are garbage and a waste of points.

[Mango Polo]

If you picked the Heavy Bolters because of the asphyx shells... those don't apply to them.

[Excessus]

Have a 1500p event coming up at the end of the month, I haven't completed my list yet but I think divination delegatus with chosen duty, 2x corvi asphyx sniper vets with apothecaries. 3x corvi quad rapiers...and then I can't decide anymore...

 

btw, corvidae rapiers...must I reroll the 1s to hit with pieplates as well???

[Nusquam]

The power is not useless even if you're rerolling ones, because getting shred on sniper rifles that are always wounding on 4+ is pretty good. Plus, I'm half convinced they will be better as a forward nuncio vox and backup melee/anti-tank unit rather than snipers sitting on an objective. They don't score unlike Recon squads, so no point just parking them in one place.

But they have sniper rifles and scout armor, parking them is what they're designed for. Sure they can take a meltabomb and two meltaguns, but then you're paying for primary equipment you're not using. Sure, you don't always use the kit you have like bolt pistols, frags, etc but those are base-level standard equipment just about everyone outside termis get landed with. You're paying for the added sniper rifles. With the short range of meltas, and even shorter for using a meltabomb, their range is wasted. If only they could take shotguns or even bolters. That would increase their value tremendously. I'm also not saying Mind Killer is bad, just that most of the time a third of it won't be needed. Perhaps its more for meltaguns or plasmaguns in the unit, but again, sniper rifles.

 

You're not an infiltrator if you're not infiltrating. But at this point I just reread infiltrate and you can't choose not to infiltrate(that hurts mirror match infiltrator matches); So you'd have to outflank with them instead.

 

My dreams of Mind Killing turn one bombardments are dashed. It would be turn three at the soonest; outflank, stand still then fire. And I'm not fishing for master of ambush.

 

Edit: Actually scratch that. You can have and IC like Amon join a unit of infiltrators like the psyscouts so long as it's in your deployment. Just deploy the IC first where you want him and infiltrate the scouts next to him. I dont have the BRB on me to see when the check for ICs joining a unit if they're in coherency actually "checks" or if its triggered. They would technically be two units during deployment but at the latest you could join them in your movement phase without actually moving them.

 

Dream undashed.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Nusquam