TheWolfLord Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Looks like i need to get some more Preds and some Land Raiders. Gonna run the Mastodon flanked by 2 Spartans and the Raiders Back it up with Sicarans & predators My other list requires some work. Got to get some use from 2 fire raptors a storm eagle and a caestus. I'm building a list centred around my Mastodon. The fact you can run 4 units in it makes it a pretty low cost transport unit for unit. The only issue is the risk of explosion. If you fill it with units with a good invuln save you don't have to worry very much but anything else will be removed very very easily. Unfortunately in 30k a 4++ is the best we can get which is a little too risky for my liking, however a Mastodon is possibly more survivable in 30k as D isn't as widespread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Remember the -2 to the Catastrophic Damage table from Reinforced Shell. Also if someone can alpha strike your Mastodon I would buy that guy a beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Remember the -2 to the Catastrophic Damage table from Reinforced Shell. Also if someone can alpha strike your Mastodon I would buy that guy a beer. Never place a free beer on the line when an Irishman is involved.... CHALLENGE ACCEPTED LADDIE! Slave to Darkness and Supe robot gangster #1 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 im not irish , but ill take that bet as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW1 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Love the mention of beer and the wolves come howling. I'll have a go as well. :p Hmmm ... So onto sage advice required ... So I have around 200 marines ready to attach arms to and unsure what to arm them with. So slayers ... Thinking of a 20 blob with bolters and another 20 armed for CC. I've got old metal over the shoulder heavy weapons to do 10 man plasma cannons, 10, lascannons, 10 missile launchers, 10 heavy bolters. I can probably make most of them using the metal long fang models. Though I was thinking of maybe using the more heavily armoured long fangs as AA pack leaders (bare headed ones not the mk7 helmeted ones). I've also got 10 Kromlech shotguns so do recon marines make sense in a SW force? Tanks wise I've got the bodies/tracks for 40ish old school rhinos which can be converted up to preds or rebuilt as rhinos. I'm stripping and starting from scratch my full SW force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWolfLord Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Remember the -2 to the Catastrophic Damage table from Reinforced Shell. Also if someone can alpha strike your Mastodon I would buy that guy a beer. The -2 has never helped me so far. In 30k it's fairly easy to alpha strike the Mastodon, in 30k the power has been dialled back a little but you're playing against many more points therefore the opponent has more firepower. You need to consider it if you choose to run a Mastodon, losing 2000 points of your army in 1 go is a pretty tough thing to swallow Coptimas 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robzilla Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I think the mastodon is quite a good unit to discuss. I mean, after all, it seems some of the biggest gripes are surrounding transport and delivery of units, and the mastodon is the big-daddy of transports. It seems to work out at about 175 points per ten men, for an assault transport. A reasonable saving on land raiders, but more expensive than dreadclaws. However, there are a fair few downsides - I question how useful the seige melta is, considering the range, and where your infantry will be after a disembark, and this is the main armament. Plus, all of your army is going to end up in the same area of the board upon delivery. Depending on the composition of the enemy army, it could be easy to just feed it a sacrificial unit or two, whilst the rest of the army redeployed and blasted the tank. Land raiders on the other hand (or a pair of Spartans) cam assault multiple points on the table. All in all, I'm not sold. Sadly. I really want one :p Purge the Daemon and Coptimas 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranwulf Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Well, if you consider the Mastodon size combined with Warrior's Mettle, you get some good threat range for your forces, specially if you turn the whole model, since your acess points are so far from each other. Ran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Deploy sideways and then move access points over 6" without actually moving at all by pivoting the model :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Wait, can we use a gorgon? If so that could help quite a bit as its cheaper I think and depending on the hullpoibts we can run multiplies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Deploy sideways and then move access points over 6" without actually moving at all by pivoting the model That's not legal thanks to the new FAQ. A model cannot end a move with any parts past it's given movement distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coptimas Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) The Mastadon is a fantastic piece of kit, and fills lots of extras over the standard Spartan or Raiders assault, just a shame that really it only becomes effective turn two onward and doesn't have side exit. I'm interested to know from the wise and experienced what your theory is to a take all comers list? Purely Wolves, no allies. Do you focus on find what works for the army and build according to that, or look at the most effective list out there and try to counter? I have seen and heard a lot about SA Dracosian spam armies, Mech Castilax and others. Are these simply people building around the army and what works or finding a strong unit and spamming it to the Max? Whats the opinion on armour? The fact that the games is shooting biased armoured lists across the board seem to be the general consensus for a way forward? I ask as I can't get away from the need to make my Wolves both fluffy and effective against all the above. This means heavy infantry based, covers all the bases, and doesn't just get mauled by a "stronger list". I regularly play at 3000 pts, and the group I play with invariably turn up with one of the following; IF Sigismund Templar list, large breachers backed by strong armour, Spartan, Leviathan, Deredeo etc. Salamanders, Vulkcan, Firedrakes, apothecary deathstar, Typhon, Pyroclasts rhino, special weapons squads etc. EC traitors, Fulgrim, Pheonix, Apoth deathstar, Spartan, Eidalon assault marines, Kacophany, Palatine blades, land speeders etc. IW Portarubio, Iron Circle etc deathstar, allied to main detachment of Mechanicus Anacharis Scoria, Thallax, Castilax, etc etc. With all the above in mind, and knowing that flexibility is key I want a list that can take whatever RoW is needed at the time to best suit the above. What I have come up with is below; HQ - Red Blade Wolf Priest SotD - MB's, Aether Rune Armour Damocles Troops - GS - 2 x 15, Huscarl AA, GFB, MB's. Vexilla, 2 Combis, 1 Fist, 5 PW's and 6 CS. Recon - x5 Serg AA, Fist, Melta. Camo, CC Support - x7 Serg AA, Fist, Melta. extra CC, Plasma Elites - DS - 9 with Rad and GFB Contemptor Mortice twin Kheres Fast Attack - Seekers - Serg AA, Fist, Melta. x5 combis Lightning - Krak x2, Augs, Servitor Heavy Support - Caestus with missiles LOW - Russ, Brother and Sister This however takes me some 240 ish points over. I know fat can be trimmed, but its really down to losing Seekers/Support/Contemptor for me. I would really like some positive criticism, bearing in mind the tactical flexibility, takes all comers attitude. Many thanks in advance, and sorry if the list is sloppy, first one posted, any pointers on layout etc appreciated. Edited February 12, 2017 by Coptimas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Wait, can we use a gorgon? If so that could help quite a bit as its cheaper I think and depending on the hullpoibts we can run multiplies. And nope, now gorgon unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWolfLord Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 You need to move forward as fast as possible turn 1 due to the 6" movement limitation for a turn 2 disembark. Luckily as a Superheavy you don't sacrifice shooting to do that. Turning sideways is the best option, the Mastodon must be nearly 12" long to a 6" disembark and a run/charge with Grey Slayers and Veterans means you are covering quite a large section. Even if you continue to face forward when disembarking the u it's can spread out and cover an area at least 24" wide without much difficultly. It does work out to be surprisingly good value if you transport 4 units and it's super survivable. It's weapons system are its weakest area. The Skyfire/Intercepting turret is a great edition as it gives that anti air you might be missing, it'll deal with a single flyer easily. 2 Las Cannons are always useful but no Twin-Linked isn't great. The Heavy Flamer are in such a position you'd rarely use them as range will be an issue, for a Super Heavy at this points cost having them as Torrent wouldn't be over the top. The main Melta Array is great but Robzilla touched on the main issue, the range is awful. 12" range of a blast means you cannot shoot first turn unless the enemy goes first. 24" apart with a 12" movement puts you exactly 12" apart. The hole at the centre of a blast must be placed completely over a model. That automatically means you are trying to shoot it 12" plus a few extra millimetres. No 700 point Super Heavy should be unable to fire it's weapons turn 1 because of range. Coptimas 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWolfLord Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Deploy sideways and then move access points over 6" without actually moving at all by pivoting the model :) That's not legal thanks to the new FAQ. A model cannot end a move with any parts past it's given movement distance. There's no rules against moving sideways, backwards or in any direction you wish. I think Jarkaira meant starting it deployed sideways and literally just moving it 6" or 12" closer to the energy without pivoting it. Whilst legal it feels like an abuse to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) Deploy sideways and then move access points over 6" without actually moving at all by pivoting the model :) That's not legal thanks to the new FAQ. A model cannot end a move with any parts past it's given movement distance."If a model moves, no part of the model (or its base) can finish the move more than the model’s move distance away from where it started the Movement phase." That means a lot of consideration with extremely large models like Mastodon since it ends up restricting the movement a lot if taken as it is now. Some mastodon owner could just check how many angles you can pivot it until it ends up eating the whole movement. ^ That is basically what it is for Mastodon with the current FAQ as pivoting eats a lot of movement. Edited February 12, 2017 by Jarkaira Coptimas 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Hm. The thought never occurred to me that you would ever consider moving any tank sideways without pivoting, much less a mastadon. Certainly defies physics and isn't very cool to look at either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 That doesn't look cool either and defies logic but is still done :) http://kuofi.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Viikkokatsaus-12-8-e1486807537216.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Just because someone else wants to play illogically or unfluffy, doesn't mean I have to. If his whole battle plan revolves around a mis-use of the rules, then maybe you should play someone else. 'cause moving vehicles sideways without pivoting first is just plain stupid. Brother Sutek 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Anyway, here's a test 2500 point list featuring Russ. I want to have two separate lists, one 2000 point list featuring Red-blade, and a 2500 pointer featuring Geigor and Russ. How's this?There has to be some allowance for list ineffeciency, as I'm dead set on running Varagyr, in the hopes that eventually they'll get 2W a piece. Pale Hunters Rite of War HQ Geigor Fell-hand (goes in the spartan) Speaker of the Dead (goes in the spartan) Wolfkin of Russ (goes in the spartan) Troops Varagyr (6 dudes, Spartan DT, flare shield) Varagyr (5 reaper autocannons) Varagyr (5 reaper autocannons) Fast Attack Javelin Javelin Javelin Heavy Support Sicaran Venetor Lord of War Leman Russ (goes in the spartan) I was just thinking, it's kinda funny that Freki and Geri are very bulky, but Russ is ony bulky. Also, RaW cataphractii aren't barred from being taken in Bloodied Claw. Cataphractii armour doesn't actually have the SaP special rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Just because someone else wants to play illogically or unfluffy, doesn't mean I have to. If his whole battle plan revolves around a mis-use of the rules, then maybe you should play someone else. 'cause moving vehicles sideways without pivoting first is just plain stupid. Of course not. Just pointing out it might happen while in battle and shouldn't bother too much for seeing such a WAAC attitude in action. Funny though that the same time you wonder about your list having inefficiency :) Fear not, it lacks only a bit of anti-air in my opinion to be efficient enough to be played at normal games but is too efficient against people wondering how they deal against Spartans without multiple melta bombs per unit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 @Runefyre That's a good point and I think it's deliberate because FW had to specifically remove SnP due to people making roving 10 man lascannon squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Just because someone else wants to play illogically or unfluffy, doesn't mean I have to. If his whole battle plan revolves around a mis-use of the rules, then maybe you should play someone else. 'cause moving vehicles sideways without pivoting first is just plain stupid. Doesnt it say a vehicle can pivot any number of times when it moves ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Yes you can do doughnuts with your Land Raider if you want to. You could even pivot that sideways deployed Mastodon first to go "straight" and then pivot back in order for not a single part moving extra mileage. Imo don't know if it is worth that much of unnecessary movement as you can just move it straight sideways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 For kicks and giggles, I threw together a sky-hunter phalanx list (2000 points) Geigor Chaplain (jet-bike, refractor field, great frost blade) (2x) Grey Slayer squad (aa, power fist huscarl) (2x) Jet-bike squadron (volkite, sergeant, power weapon) (2x) Storm Eagle (las-cannons) (3x) HS Jet-bike squadron (sergeant, power weapon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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