[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[Runefyre]

MM scouting rhinos isn't a bad tactic there. Didn't think about that. could put mm's on LR's as well.

 

The more and more I think about it, the more I realise that the Wolves are quite a balance between shooting and melee. Outflank+devastate something in the shooting phase+get counter-attacked/charge T3.

[depthcharge12]

MM scouting rhinos isn't a bad tactic there. Didn't think about that. could put mm's on LR's as well.

 

The more and more I think about it, the more I realise that the Wolves are quite a balance between shooting and melee. Outflank+devastate something in the shooting phase+get counter-attacked/charge T3.

I agree, you will need to use your legion benefits to keep the pressure on your opponent. I wouldn't worry about AC since most people do not want to drop the points on it below 2500.

 

I was even considering scouting a multi melta heavy support squad up...slap on an augury scanner and you will control the entire middle of the board from armor incursions and drop podding dreadnoughts.

[ILikeItWhatIsIt]

You can't flat out rhinos after disembarking, unless you mean disembarking in the scout phase.

 

Sure you don't get charges till turn 3, but what do want to assault turn 1? Most units are on the other side of the board, or are in a Spartan or what have you. Things like NLs won't even be able to deploy close enough to you...so I'm missing the point of why you want your mandatory, 3+ save units out in the open so fast?

 

This way they have a reliable way of deploying where they need to without wasting points on a transport. Combi plasma aren't a waste when you deploy right up next to an enemy unit and double tap into them. Baluc seemed to complain about GS not having anything able to fight contemptors or vehicles, and are just useless in the first place, so I'm trying to give you a way to counter that. S7 plasma can hurt rapiers, stop medusae from shooting for a turn, or hurt TEQs that might be running around the board. If a unit assaults you, then all the better. I don't know why people insist on making assault units get into combat T1 or two. Having played assault Legio lists for a while, there's some sense in seeing where your opponent moves, or making a concerted charge. Running GS up the board, as lamented above will get them killed by Scorpii, Thanatars, medusae, and whatever else your spammy opponent decides to run.

 

Scout move for the las proteus is essential, it lets you move into cover or get around whatever deployment your opponent used to counter you. That way, you won't have to move your first turn and lose a good portion of your shooting to snap shots. It also provides a reliable way to move up another close ranged shooty unit in the form of veterans, who also make the most out the SW assault rules as they are quite decent in assault.

 

If you're not utilizing GS to their full potential, then it doesn't make sense why you even want to play SW besides fluff because it will be no different than a vanilla list with lots of armor and MSU Rhino squads.

Sorry, for complete clarification I'm talking about flat outing rhino's with short range shooting units like vets and seekers ahead as mobile cover, as they can disembark and utilise their abilities to the full the same turn in the way that slayers can't.

 

And I'm not saying you should be making random assaults into whatever, whenever. That would be folly. But if you're an assault focused unit all else being equal you want to be in assault sooner rather than later - I'm not sure that short of 'I literally cannot hurt that thing' there are many situations where you would rather get 10 Slayers into a shooting war. You're using scout to avoid wasting any of the potential shooting from the Proteus, but you're happy that the Slayers hang around? Using them to their full potential means playing to their strengths and accepting their limitations, trying to maximise one and minimise the other.

 

 

Scout is good on Grey Slayers to keep them off the board and alive to take objectives.

Agree absolutely, but I think I personally prefer OA and drop pods at that point.

[Dantay VI]

So this is my collection of 6th legion models. 

 

I collected fr the hell of it with no clear plan in mind plus i thought what I was collecting was fairly safe and would be in the Wolves legion lists

 

I am completely clueless rules wise, so I could definitely do with some help

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/dantay_xv/20170213_102302.jpg

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/dantay_xv/20170213_102311.jpg

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/dantay_xv/20170213_102318.jpg

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/dantay_xv/20170213_102324.jpg

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/dantay_xv/20170213_102333.jpg

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/dantay_xv/20170213_102338.jpg

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/dantay_xv/20170213_102346.jpg

 

I really have no clue as to what to do with it. I am not sure what RoW we can safely use.

 

I have a second Spartan, anther Fire Raptor and a Mastodon in bits to add to the pile.

 

I do not plan on adding any more infantry models until FW start releasng the SW kits, so now is a good time to look at getting the mech side straightened out.

 

I would like to run a pod heavy list (Kharybdis, s dread claws and some dreadnaught pods for Levi's) but what would I need for this?

 

I would like an airborne cavalry list, preferably centred around the Caestus, Eagle (maybe a second eagle) and he 2 raptors... Maybe use jetbikes, outriders or assault troops too. Would this be do-able with the Space WOlves legion?

 

Thirdly an armoured assault utilising Spartans, land raiders and Sicarans or pred variants, with the Mastodon for big games.. What would I need to add to my vehicle pool and is there a RoW we can use for this and keep the wolf flavour?

 

What is Pale Hunter? 

 

As the 2 Space Wolves RoW seem infantry heavy, I will look into these more once the models start flowing from FW.

 

Infantry wise I currently have

20 man breacher unit with 4 meltas

3 x 10 man assault squads

1x10 man veteran squad with 2 meltas

1 x 10 man veteran squad with 2missile launchers and suspensr webs

1 x 10 man seeker squad loaded with combi plasmas

1 x 5 man recon with sniper rifles

1 x 5 man tartaros squad with cmbi melta and chain fist

1 x 5 man catas with dual claws plus heavy flamer

1 x 5 man catas with combi meltas and chain fist pus a plasma blaster

1 x 5 man catas with combi bolters big axes and reaper

1 x 5 man catas with thunder hammer and shields (illegal load out)

1 x 5 man catas with combi weapons and reaper

Russ

10 x Praetors, consuls, Geigor, & priests.

 

Any and all help appreciated

[Baluc]

Sigh... Grey Slayers have the same problems Tacticals have. Are they "better" than tacticals. I would say they are more defensively sound as in they won't give up their ground to the first unit that charges them. They also can get around the battlefield themselves which is a nice bonus, they are a unit "worth" taking for that alone. 

 

But suggestions that players who don't think they are gold plated awesome are somehow denying what it means to play space wolves... All legions mass their marines that is kind of the point of them, their vehicles are pretty mediocre its the inherent power of the space marines that makes the legions tick. Should we be in other tactica threads telling people to leave their toys at home and take a good old tactical squad since that is what legions do? I love wolves or I wouldn't still be in thread after what GW has spend the last 15 years doing to them. 

 

Pale hunter probably should have provided Outflank, without the ability to scout innately the RoW falls pretty flat. Outside of 2+ lightning fighter I guess. Once I dropped Red-Blade I dropped Pale Hunter.

 

I'm finding it difficult to balance objective takers, and units that do damage, the Dreadclaw restriction in pale hunter is especially jarring as it would be one of very few ways to take advantage of its rules. 

[Runefyre]

That's an impressive army there! Dang.

 

I see lots of potential for Pale Hunters, specifically including Hvarl so you can outflank as many units as you need to (considering you don't have many transports).

 

You've got a great base for a Zone Mortalis list (breachers supported by termies).

[Dantay VI]

Thanks RuneFyre

 

Its just a lot of random bits that I like, but as I play very rarely, and when I do I struggle to get the best out of my lists, I really need some help with working out what I should be collecting to put out some decent armies with a chance f at least drawing a game.

 

I have never played zone mortalis :)

 

So yeah, what additional bits would I need for an airborne cavalry style list, a drop pod heavy list and an armoured assault list, building from what I already have?

 

What is Pale Hunter?

[Baluc]

In terms of support units you probably want units that are as flexible as possible. I'll break down a list of units  to look at.

 

I actually think the elite slot is out least useful slot, but there are a few gems.

 

Grab a unit of Deathsworn or Varagyr whichever one tickles your fancy and go with that one. 

 

Legion Terminators: aren't bad in a dreadclaw Ws5 on the charge and counter attack being good rules in general.

 

Cortus: Might be a good cheap reliable way to proc: The Fury of the Pack from Pale Hunter, and they can have melta and grav

 

 

Javs: 1 Jav has 4 krak missiles at bs5 on its first round of shooting or 2 templates and a hb, but with mini 20 grey slayers you should have infantry assault covered anyway

 

Land Speeders: Grav nuff said

 

Bikes: Another good cheap unit to proc Fury of the Pack, can take MB(depending on ruling)

 

Sicaran: Lascannon sponsons, great turret

 

Fellblade: Its an all-rounder Armourbane cannon for tanks and a 7" template for infantry, some lascannons for flavour. 

[Dantay VI]

Oh I'll get deathsworn for sure, but I am more interested in the mech side for now as I can physically buy them and have them ready for when the infantry models get released.

 

I have only one friend who games and I would be putting 30K lists up against 40K armies such Orks (with a lot of Kans, dreads and a stompa, Eldar Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Khorne Daemonkin or his favourite Astra Militarum (with blobs and lots of tanks). He is looking at 30K Dark Angels now though

 

I only have Wolves in either 30 or 40K guises, and I want to move away from 40K Wolves, so it is easy for him to work out what he s up against, whereas for me it is much more challenging.

 

And we never play below 3000 points 

[Purge the Daemon]

Oh I'll get deathsworn for sure, but I am more interested in the mech side for now as I can physically buy them and have them ready for when the infantry models get released.

 

I have only one friend who games and I would be putting 30K lists up against 40K armies such Orks (with a lot of Kans, dreads and a stompa, Eldar Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Khorne Daemonkin or his favourite Astra Militarum (with blobs and lots of tanks). He is looking at 30K Dark Angels now though

 

I only have Wolves in either 30 or 40K guises, and I want to move away from 40K Wolves, so it is easy for him to work out what he s up against, whereas for me it is much more challenging.

 

And we never play below 3000 points

For the unique right of wars Pale Hunters is very limiting in terms of mech. While you gain a bonus to reserve you can't take any drop pods artillery and limited to 1 heavy support.

 

The Bloodied Claw has restrictions on artillery and slow and purposeful but is less limiting.

 

Both right of wars really only give benefits to infantry.

[Robzilla]

=

 

Oh I'll get deathsworn for sure, but I am more interested in the mech side for now as I can physically buy them and have them ready for when the infantry models get released.

 

I have only one friend who games and I would be putting 30K lists up against 40K armies such Orks (with a lot of Kans, dreads and a stompa, Eldar Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Khorne Daemonkin or his favourite Astra Militarum (with blobs and lots of tanks). He is looking at 30K Dark Angels now though

 

I only have Wolves in either 30 or 40K guises, and I want to move away from 40K Wolves, so it is easy for him to work out what he s up against, whereas for me it is much more challenging.

 

And we never play below 3000 points 

 

If It were me, Id be looking at either Bloodied Claw, or Armoured Spearhead.

Bloodied Claw focused on Hard hitting infantry.
Armoured Spearhead focuses on heavy armour and lots of it (tanks)

Id shy away from Pale hunter for now - I mean theres plenty there in your units that would let you do it, but it takes away a lot from your collection (only one heavy support choice allowed and you have..... many :P)

 

As Baluc mentioned - Bikes, Speeders and Sicarians are always good.  There's another thread on at the moment expressing just how amazing speeders are at taking off hull points from vehicles.

I have a soft spot for both them and bikes, I have no shame in admitting.

If you decide to go for a more armoured approach to warfare, landraiders would be a viable purchase too.

[ILikeItWhatIsIt]

I've been playing around with the following components of an OA list. About 1800 points so far, needs a lot of tweaking. Unfortunately I prefer infantry and dreads rather than toys and tanks which is a bit of a millstone.

 

Praetor, Paragon Blade, MB, Combi (Goes in with the MK vets)

 

Speaker, GFB, MB (Goes in with the support squad)

 

Contemptor Cortus, 2xDCCW, grav, pod

 

Vet squad x 5, Melta gun, 3x Combi, PF on sarge, pod, Machine Killers

 

Seeker Squad x 10, pod

 

Grey Slayers x 10, PF on the Huscarl, pod

 

Grey Slayers x 10, PF on the Huscarl, pod

 

Tactical Support Squad x 9, Plasma, pod

 

Needs more Anti-Armour at this level, less anti-infantry and preferably 1 more pod at least (or one less). I like speeders and I could start them on the table, very fragile though

[Robzilla]

Had a go at pumping out a list for 3000pts.
I'm relatively happy with it for a first attempt - there are a few flaws in it (namely the reliance on Grey Slayers) but generally, I think they will end up punching above their weight.

Plan would be:  

Use Redblade's scout moves to either outflank a unit, or redeploy to try and force the majority of my force towards only part of theirs (apply pressure fast).  

Use speed to get Hvarl, and the lighter Grey slayer squads towards the shooty units (Artillery, heavy support squads etc)
Use the Malcadors to harry/weaken the enemy army/soften up the harder units.

Use the Big Grey Slayer squad and the Forge lord as mutual annihilation for the tougher enemy units.

 

**Ive assumed Command Squad counts as one of the HQ slots, and that Hvarl counts as a Praetor.

Theres about 115pts left over - should I?
A )  Drop a couple of bits, and get two speeders, with MM and Grav?
B ) Upgrade tanks here and there (pintle weapons etc)
C ) Kit out some of the Grey slayers with Combat shields, And buff up the command Squad?

D )  Scrap my list, and work harder to Git Gud?
 

the List:

Armoured Spearhead
Hvarl Redblade
210

Command Squad:
4 Chosen.  Tartaros Armour

1x Power Fist
110

Land Raider Phobos (DT)
Pintle Multi-melta
240
 

Forge Lord
Rad Grenades
Great frost Blade
Boarding Shield
115
(goes with Big Grey Slayer blob in Spartan)

 

20 Grey Slayers
10 Power Weapons
Huscarl
Great Frost blade
Artificer Armour
300

(Goes in Spartan with Forge lord)

 

Grey Slayers
Huscarl
Great Frost blade

Artificer Armour
Power Fist x2
Power Weapon x5
195
Land Raider Phobos (DT)
Multi Melta
240

Grey Slayers
Huscarl
Great Frost blade

Artificer Armour
Power Fist x2
Power Weapon x5
195
Land Raider Phobos (DT)
Multi Melta
240

 

Malcador Tank Squadron
Flare Shield
Demolisher Cannon
345

Malcador Tank Squadron
Flare shield
Demolisher Cannon
345
 

Spartan
Flare shield
350
 

Edited February 13, 2017 by Robzilla

[Baluc]

I've been playing around with the following components of an OA list. About 1800 points so far, needs a lot of tweaking. Unfortunately I prefer infantry and dreads rather than toys and tanks which is a bit of a millstone.

 

Praetor, Paragon Blade, MB, Combi (Goes in with the MK vets)

 

Speaker, GFB, MB (Goes in with the support squad)

 

Contemptor Cortus, 2xDCCW, grav, pod

 

Vet squad x 5, Melta gun, 3x Combi, PF on sarge, pod, Machine Killers

 

Seeker Squad x 10, pod

 

Grey Slayers x 10, PF on the Huscarl, pod

 

Grey Slayers x 10, PF on the Huscarl, pod

 

Tactical Support Squad x 9, Plasma, pod

 

Needs more Anti-Armour at this level, less anti-infantry and preferably 1 more pod at least (or one less). I like speeders and I could start them on the table, very fragile though

 

I'd probably drop the seekers or the support sqd, they both deal with infantry. 

 

I'd consider a 2nd Cortus

 

Th problem with OA is a) you have limited hitting power and b) you have a ton of kill points. Without a Levi or 2 OA is always going to be an uphill struggle. How many points is this list supposed to be?

[ILikeItWhatIsIt]

 

I've been playing around with the following components of an OA list. About 1800 points so far, needs a lot of tweaking. Unfortunately I prefer infantry and dreads rather than toys and tanks which is a bit of a millstone.

 

Praetor, Paragon Blade, MB, Combi (Goes in with the MK vets)

 

Speaker, GFB, MB (Goes in with the support squad)

 

Contemptor Cortus, 2xDCCW, grav, pod

 

Vet squad x 5, Melta gun, 3x Combi, PF on sarge, pod, Machine Killers

 

Seeker Squad x 10, pod

 

Grey Slayers x 10, PF on the Huscarl, pod

 

Grey Slayers x 10, PF on the Huscarl, pod

 

Tactical Support Squad x 9, Plasma, pod

 

Needs more Anti-Armour at this level, less anti-infantry and preferably 1 more pod at least (or one less). I like speeders and I could start them on the table, very fragile though

 

I'd probably drop the seekers or the support sqd, they both deal with infantry. 

 

I'd consider a 2nd Cortus

 

Th problem with OA is a) you have limited hitting power and you have a ton of kill points. Without a Levi or 2 OA is always going to be an uphill struggle. How many points is this list supposed to be?

 

Yeah, that's sadly the conclusion I was coming to as well. Like I said I love my infantry, there just isn't enough infantry out there to kill!

 

It's about 1800 as is, I'm working initially toward 2k before thinking about 3k. Dropping the Seekers or the Plasma would let me bring a Leviathan in a pod and a Speeder or two, of the two, which would you drop? The plasma squad is probably the less efficient but it at least gets me somewhere to put the Priest where PE Inf and FNP can really do some force multiplication. I probably don't have enough points to get both a Levi and another Cortus - shame as I love dreads! 3k would probably be Russ and friends (wound counters) in an assault pod and probably another Levi.

 

Any thoughts on meching up instead? I'd like to avoid Spartan-star if possible but not sure that isn't straight up the best way. Oh for the Land Raider Crusader (fits better in my storage ;) ). I'm not sure footslogging dreads work really either which is again sad, the new model I think looks incredible and I'd like to make sure it gets used! 

[Baluc]

The Plasma Squad probably has more impact when it lands, but cover saves might negate that anyway. Have you considered making them vets with just 2 plasma guns and maybe some combi-weapons? 

I'd def suggest the Levi 

 

I have just come to accept that with all these characters a Spartan is just another compulsory choice we will have to take.

[1ncarnadine]

So yeah, what additional bits would I need for an airborne cavalry style list, a drop pod heavy list and an armoured assault list, building from what I already have?

 

I'd echo the people saying Armoured Spearhead is a solid route for the VIth, and for that you probably want some Land Raider Phobos (the plastic one or the plastic with FW MkIIb conversion kit). 2-3 ideally, and if you're not running Armoured Spearhead I don't think it's a terrible idea to run a squadron as a HS choice and fill them with your mandatory Grey Slayers. Even better if you're playing huge games outside of the FOCs, then you can do whatever.

 

And maybe 2 Rhinos? If you want to run Outflanking Vets you'll want some.

 

Grab at least one Dreadnought Drop Pod for those Leviathans. And maybe 1-2 Dreadclaws so your orbital assault is more flexible.

 

Consider picking up some Javelin Speeders regardless of anything else, they're always great for any list. Lascannon or Missile, both are good. Pick your poison.

 

I think that's it man. Your (very impressive) collection has every other base covered, you mostly just need those critical transports.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I am really loving the new rules. I love infantry heavy armies with lots of HQ. Could well be my next army.

[RedwaKe]

So we need an HQ unit per 1000pts and if we take a speaker of the dead he can choose to take a Deathsworn unit instead of a command squad so that would count towards the 1 hq unit per 1000pts right ?

[Lord Blackwood]

I will be testing my orbital assault list on Wednesday against death guard

 

Will report results

[The Native]

Anyone actually played a game yet? Just so there can be some comment with authority on the subject.

[Jarkaira]

Is it enough to witness someone play a game with Space Wolves? :)

[The Native]

Depends how closely you followed the game 

 

Do you have anything to that would be of interest?

[Jarkaira]

I did follow it from start to end as it was our campaign's first game and as our Warmaster I wanted to be sure our guys get through it :)

 

It was a multiplayer game with 1000pts for each player and it was SW&RG vs. AL&NL.

 

What I really noticed is that Space Wolves performed really well on that pts level as their compulsary troops were better than the other players compulsary troops.

 

At the end the traitors had only one Rhino left.

 

I am looking forward to pair up our SW player against competitive players on those point levels and I guesstimate they could very well defend when outnumbered and thus I can save reserve points of our team by pitting 750pts SW against 1000pts attack and such.

[The Native]

Nice. Grey Slayers remind me of when Grey Hunters were the king of troops in 40K. I haven't seem them in a game but I have a hunch they would excel in Zone Mortalis when equipped with Combat Shields.