[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[Cavalier73]

 

Question on this. Since we have to take an HQ for every 1,000 points are those both considered compulsory choices? In which case we can't use a priest as the second. Or are compulsory HQs only based on the force organization/detachment requirements?

 

 

The rule says we need to take a HQ per 1000 points regardless of force organisation. So the compulsory HQs will be determined by the force organisation used, not our unique army selection stipulations.

[HvitrValdyr]

 

Question on this. Since we have to take an HQ for every 1,000 points are those both considered compulsory choices? In which case we can't use a priest as the second. Or are compulsory HQs only based on the force organization/detachment requirements?

 

 

The rule says we need to take a HQ per 1000 points regardless of force organisation. So the compulsory HQs will be determined by the force organisation used, not our unique army selection stipulations.

Thanks for clarifying that.

[Cavalier73]

You're welcome. Have to say, I'm very happy with our rules.

[SpiritFox22]

Man I cant wait to start building up a few Deathsworn packs.  They look pretty fun especially since they're our pseudo Wulfen units, or at least that's how I see them

 

 

[grouj]

So, what do you all consider the best set up for our new terminators? I am considering frost claw and fist, but I wanna hear other ideas too if yall have'em

[Cavalier73]

So, what do you all consider the best set up for our new terminators? I am considering frost claw and fist, but I wanna hear other ideas too if yall have'em

 

I concur. Alternatively, reaper autocannons and power fists/frost claws. 

Edited February 4, 2017 by Cavalier73

[Runefyre]

 

So, what do you all consider the best set up for our new terminators? I am considering frost claw and fist, but I wanna hear other ideas too if yall have'em

 

I concur. Alternatively, reaper autocannons and power fists/frost claws. 

 

Yup. I could see scouting 3 large footslogging squads of these guys with Red-blade to add an additional 12" total to the range of their autocannons in the first turn.

 

Overall I like our new rules, even moreso now that I re-read bestial savagery. I like having the WS pip when WE charge. Leaves less control in the hands of the enemy.

 

My biggest disappointment is Russ' lack of anti-psychic abilities.

 

I've got a really beautiful image in my head of an all varagyr army lead by Russ and Red-blade. Pale Hunter RoW.

[The Native]

Shall we talk about Russ? A Primarch killer, his abilities and points reflect that. But that is it, really. He's not a force multiplier and he can be tarpitted by a tactically astute player.

 

Has anyone mathhammered him against the other Primarchs yet?

[Plaguecaster]

So can grey slayers get the great frost sword??? It just lists the option as frost weapon whilst the terminators specifically calls out their frost weapons as only being claw, sword or axe) would be funny if can with normal troop guys running around with praetor style weapons

 

Gregior seems like a nice cheap way of getting a ROW into your force especially since delegatus is now doesnt count as a compulsory hq

Edited February 4, 2017 by teutonicavenger

[SpiritFox22]

Shall we talk about Russ? A Primarch killer, his abilities and points reflect that. But that is it, really. He's not a force multiplier and he can be tarpitted by a tactically astute player.

 

Has anyone mathhammered him against the other Primarchs yet?

 

Sorry I haven't done the math hammer yet, however he's going to make everyone have a hard time hurting him. 

 

At a glance anything that's not WS5 base will only hit him at a 6+ on the first turn, after that they cant even touch him thanks to the -2 to hit penalty.

 

Everyone WS5-9 hits him on a 5+ turn one and 6+ after that, making him stupidly hard to hit in Close combat.  Most other Primarchs are probably going to attempt to avoid him at all costs as he'll be on 3's/4's against them.  Even a supped up Agron is not going to want a one on one with Russ in the best scenarios.

 

Main thing I can see with Russ is to avoid getting him tarpitted with 20+ blob units as he'll be stuck there for 3+ turns if things don't go right.  That and don't leave him alone in the open as he'll be shot to pieces, because lets be honest I would do so in a heartbeat.

[The Native]

The only Primarch that I wonder about is Horus. Russ smacks everyone else. But he needs a reliable delivery to his target and/or a screening unit to intercept tarpits.

[betrayer41]

Haha can someone teach me what all this means.....i am finally ready to get into the gaming aspect and not just the hobby. I have ALOT of studying to do

[depthcharge12]

Lol does anyone notice that Red Blade has a freakin heavy bolter strapped to his Tartaros armor? :D

[depthcharge12]

Haha can someone teach me what all this means.....i am finally ready to get into the gaming aspect and not just the hobby. I have ALOT of studying to do

PM me if you have questions man!

[Nova_chron]

So after reading over purchase rules etc I'm a bit bummed as I have to run a minimum of 3 troop units to take anything other than grey slayers (who look like an excellent unit mind) but I'm still at a loss on the HQ choices and what I will do now that my list I had been playing is totally invalid now lol

[Baluc]

I'm not sure I want the priest...

 

No option to be on anything other than foot is a pretty serious limitation. We can still take Apothecaries for FNP... Yeah I'm a little lost, the list obvious is directing us to an infantry assault list. I just don't think that kind of build is very good, and being forced to field 3 hq choices hurts a ton.

[GraemePaul]

Are we certain that Gray Slayers as compulsory troops rules out the use of Pride of the Legion.

 

The way I read it, and taking into account Russ's own ability to modify the compulsory troops I think RoW that modify this would override the SW detachment requirement.

 

Anyone at the weekender want to ask tFW to clarify this.

 

Personally I am not a huge fan of our personal rites of war. The heavy support limitation is excessive.

 

I am also a little disappointed we have not seen our own special units yet.

[sturguard]

Question- so if you put a character other than Geigor with a unit of Grey Slayers, does that mean they lose their ability to run and charge or shoot and charge since that HQ would not have that ability?

[sturguard]

Do the terminators seem just meh to anyone else but me? If you slap autocannons on them they are much more expensive than Tyrants, they dont have 2 wounds, a thunderhammer isnt a big deal unless you have str 5 which they dont so why do they cost so much?

 

Also the Deathsworn- again, dont they seem very expensive? Yes they get their attacks if they die and one member of the squad is still around- but what if one isnt? Or what if they get shot before doing anything? They seem like a very cool unit fluffwise, but with no invul, they seem awfully expensive.

 

One more thing- any I would classify myself as a novice of 30k (longtime 40k player)- hit and run just seems meh for power armor marines. Everything kills power armor in 30k. It doesnt seem a rule you would use very often- people agree/disagree?

Edited February 5, 2017 by sturguard

[Baluc]

It looks like warrior's mettle doesn't carry over... so golly gee do we do with these 3 hq choices? And, so long apothecary...

[depthcharge12]

Do the terminators seem just meh to anyone else but me? If you slap autocannons on them they are much more expensive than Tyrants, they dont have 2 wounds, a thunderhammer isnt a big deal unless you have str 5 which they dont so why do they cost so much?

 

Also the Deathsworn- again, dont they seem very expensive? Yes they get their attacks if they die and one member of the squad is still around- but what if one isnt? Or what if they get shot before doing anything? They seem like a very cool unit fluffwise, but with no invul, they seem awfully expensive.

 

One more thing- any I would classify myself as a novice of 30k (longtime 40k player)- hit and run just seems meh for power armor marines. Everything kills power armor in 30k. It doesnt seem a rule you would use very often- people agree/disagree?

They are meant in rules and fluff to be a suicide unit. Drop them out of a Dreadclaw with a Speaker of the undead for a 5+ FNP. Even if they die in overwatch they'll still get their attacks as long as one survives.

 

You're also not factoring in their insane stasis bomb (no im not mad as a Dark Angel you took on of our cool toys and made it better :/). A free fleshbane AP2 blast weapon? Sign me up.

 

Also take into consideration you can get a -1 I AP2 frost great weapon that will strike before most AP2 weapons.

[sturguard]

Oh I am factoring those things in, they are just too expensive to be a suicide squad, especially in a 2k-2.5k game, they amount to over 10-15% of your army, not including the dreadclaw- with the speaker you are looking at what 400-500 pts for a unit which may kill 1 unit? Now, if they had some sort of invulnerable stacked with the Speaker (like the 40k Wulfen) then okay, because they have a chance to not just suicide against a unit, but live and attack another unit. I think they are too fragile.

 

I am interested in what people build and how the lists compare to the top 30k lists. I think Grey Slayers are pretty good compared to other troop choices but overall, 30k is still a shooting game and I don't think the Wolves have enough of that to be anything but mid range (Which is fine). Phosphex is still going to wipe Grey Slayers off the board not to mention a plethora of other units. Now if you could tank with a character with 2+ armor in those GS units they would have a chance (like add in a Speaker of the Dead and combat shields).

 

Dont get me wrong, I started my space wolf army in the late 80's, I'd love to see someone prove me wrong, but my honest opinion is between the custodes and 1k Sons, the Wolves pulled the short straw.

[Baluc]

Oh I am factoring those things in, they are just too expensive to be a suicide squad, especially in a 2k-2.5k game, they amount to over 10-15% of your army, not including the dreadclaw- with the speaker you are looking at what 400-500 pts for a unit which may kill 1 unit? Now, if they had some sort of invulnerable stacked with the Speaker (like the 40k Wulfen) then okay, because they have a chance to not just suicide against a unit, but live and attack another unit. I think they are too fragile.

 

I am interested in what people build and how the lists compare to the top 30k lists. I think Grey Slayers are pretty good compared to other troop choices but overall, 30k is still a shooting game and I don't think the Wolves have enough of that to be anything but mid range (Which is fine). Phosphex is still going to wipe Grey Slayers off the board not to mention a plethora of other units. Now if you could tank with a character with 2+ armor in those GS units they would have a chance (like add in a Speaker of the Dead and combat shields).

 

Dont get me wrong, I started my space wolf army in the late 80's, I'd love to see someone prove me wrong, but my honest opinion is between the custodes and 1k Sons, the Wolves pulled the short straw.

I'm running into a lot of dead ends list building currently.

[sturguard]

In my experience, and again alot of you guys know 30k better than I,  power armor is power armor- it might as well be swiss cheese in 30k.

 

If you try and make GS durable- ie, put in a Speaker of the Dead, they lose their special ability to run/charge, so they die just like tac squads. They also have no long range shooting and the more items you put on them, the more expensive they get without any sort of durability.

 

To me when rating a good unit in 30k you look at 3 things-

1. Durability- how hard is the unit to kill

2. Firepower- how shooty they are, or how situational is their firepower, in this case, the GS have to get in melee combat

3. Price Tag

 

GS arent durable, they can't reach out and touch anything but their price is good. So if you just look at them as regular tac marines, give them few upgrades to keep them cheap as chips and expect nothing from them (or lets say nothing more than a standard tac marine would accomplish) they are okay. The problem is, people dont design lists around standard tac marines, at least no battle reports I have seen online or games I have played. I have heard World Eaters can do it.

 

Our terminators fail on all 3 accounts. They arent durable. They dont have any additional firepower unless you make them more expensive than Tyrants and they are very expensive. Yes we can have thunderhammer, but without str 5, you might as well have pfists for free as there are no storm shields with them.

 

The Deathsworn are okay- essentially the 30k version of wulfen, the problem is, they omitted the two things the wulfen have that make them good- 1. durability, the inbuilt 5+fnp and 2. an invul save with storm shields. Yes, you can give the Deathsworn the Speaker of the Dead for the 5+ and you can also give them a ride, but by the time you are done, they are expensive as heck and still have no invul which other good melee units will have. So even though they get their attacks when they die, if they die thats a bad thing for you, you just lost an expensive unit.

 

Some big time 30k tournament player please prove I am wrong and post a list that would hang with the best 30k lists- or heck even a 1K Sons or Custodes list.

 

As a long fang myself Ill be the first one to say the feel of the units and the fluff feels good, but from a competitive play standpoint I feel like we are mid tier at best. 

[Dantay VI]

Thats cos fw dpent so much time focussing on their new pet project (custodes) & balancing T-Sons that Wolves got sidelined with sub-par rules.

Btw varangyr do not get plasma blasters?