[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[Brofist]

I don't play your army, but you have it pretty good. I wish I had some of your awesome units and awesome wargear options. Grey Hunters are one of the best infantry units in the game and they are cheap, great at melee, and they can get there without a transport. Good thing too, since you have to take 2 of them in any list you run regardless of your ROW.

 

As basic troops choices taking two giant blobs and going for that turn 1 or turn 2 charge is how I'd run them. You're threatening most of the table on the first turn. It's an aggressive horde army and you'll need to build your list around it. I'm still digesting all the information, but SW are shaking out to be a top tier legion.

[Jarkaira]

 

 

Shall we talk about Russ? A Primarch killer, his abilities and points reflect that. But that is it, really. He's not a force multiplier and he can be tarpitted by a tactically astute player.

 

Has anyone mathhammered him against the other Primarchs yet?

Sorry I haven't done the math hammer yet, however he's going to make everyone have a hard time hurting him.

 

At a glance anything that's not WS5 base will only hit him at a 6+ on the first turn, after that they cant even touch him thanks to the -2 to hit penalty.

 

Everyone WS5-9 hits him on a 5+ turn one and 6+ after that, making him stupidly hard to hit in Close combat. Most other Primarchs are probably going to attempt to avoid him at all costs as he'll be on 3's/4's against them. Even a supped up Agron is not going to want a one on one with Russ in the best scenarios.

 

Main thing I can see with Russ is to avoid getting him tarpitted with 20+ blob units as he'll be stuck there for 3+ turns if things don't go right. That and don't leave him alone in the open as he'll be shot to pieces, because lets be honest I would do so in a heartbeat.

Scoria should be one of the better guys to spar against.

[Robzilla]

Are we certain that Gray Slayers as compulsory troops rules out the use of Pride of the Legion.

 

The way I read it, and taking into account Russ's own ability to modify the compulsory troops I think RoW that modify this would override the SW detachment requirement.

 

Anyone at the weekender want to ask tFW to clarify this.

 

Personally I am not a huge fan of our personal rites of war. The heavy support limitation is excessive.

 

I am also a little disappointed we have not seen our own special units yet.

That's how I read it.

Basically, if we look at the army from the legion astartes crusade army list, the only compulsory troop is grey slayers. The rest are support squads.

 

Rites of war (should) change things up as per the usual.

 

I mean come on, this makes sense right? There's no other case of this with any other legion army list, forgeworld generally want to give us flexibility when list building, so why would this be the special case?

 

I know some people are disappointed with the current batch of rules, but there's no need to let this cloud up what should be a sensible decision.

[Dantay VI]

Am I reading the second RoW correct.

 

If I run Bloodied Claw, I can take no allies at all?

[SkimaskMohawk]

"Wolves have sub-par rules" 

 

top kek

 

275 gets you 20 troops with power weapons that can run (with +1) and charge with WS5.

 

Did we mention that russ is only under magnus in terms of bustedness?


As for the Slayers, it looks like you're locked in. The first sentence is unambiguous; they're compulsory troops. The second sentence is also unambiguous; every other troop in the AoD list is support, all the RoWs are in the list. Russ is also unambiguous; he specifically can take stuff as compulsory instead of slayers. 

 

Still...aforementioned squads are one of the best in the game

Edited February 5, 2017 by SkimaskMohawk

[1ncarnadine]

Am I reading the second RoW correct.

 

If I run Bloodied Claw, I can take no allies at all?

 

Yup. You get a bunch of buffs including a Howl of the Death Wolf at the cost of not taking Medusae, Tarantulas, Rapiers or allies. That's not an uncommon set of RoW restrictions.

[Robzilla]

 

As for the Slayers, it looks like you're locked in. The first sentence is unambiguous; they're compulsory troops. The second sentence is also unambiguous; every other troop in the AoD list is support, all the RoWs are in the list. Russ is also unambiguous; he specifically can take stuff as compulsory instead of slayers.

 

Still...aforementioned squads are one of the best in the game

See, I'd argue this.

 

The second sentence reads, "all other troops choices found in the age of darkness army list get the support squad special rule"

 

In things like pride of the legion terminators and veterans are allowed to be taken as troops, but strictly speaking, they aren't part of the troops choices in the age of darkness list.

 

To be fair as well, just using common sense, that rites of war ammend the army lists and legions as they go anyway. Often they say a certain unit counts as a compulsory troop choice (like recon squads, for example) when this was not the case.

 

I'd say that your choice of RoW should supercede this legion restriction, where applicable.

[1ncarnadine]

 

As for the Slayers, it looks like you're locked in. The first sentence is unambiguous; they're compulsory troops. The second sentence is also unambiguous; every other troop in the AoD list is support, all the RoWs are in the list. Russ is also unambiguous; he specifically can take stuff as compulsory instead of slayers.

 

Still...aforementioned squads are one of the best in the game

See, I'd argue this.

 

The second sentence reads, "all other troops choices found in the age of darkness army list get the support squad special rule"

 

In things like pride of the legion terminators and veterans are allowed to be taken as troops, but strictly speaking, they aren't part of the troops choices in the age of darkness list.

 

To be fair as well, just using common sense, that rites of war ammend the army lists and legions as they go anyway. Often they say a certain unit counts as a compulsory troop choice (like recon squads, for example) when this was not the case.

 

I'd say that your choice of RoW should supercede this legion restriction, where applicable.

 

 

 

Well, unfortunately for Pride, it does say that Vets & Terminators must be Compulsory Troops as well. Same "must take as compulsory" goes for Armoured Breakthrough and Primarch's Chosen as well, I believe. It's not "may be taken." It's "must be taken," which conflicts with Grey Slayers. I'll try and ask Alan if I have a chance, although I bet others will make a go as well today.

[Robzilla]

Fair play!

Must be misremembering the wording.

 

Either way, this one will just end up going back and forth until some official confirmation is given.

 

Might as well talk about something productive!

 

I know a few people have dismissed the first rite of war for the puppies, but I think there's a fair bit if room for potential, especially if taking advantage of the fast attack slot.

 

Rough idea for a skeleton of a list:

 

Mandatory Redblade

 

Mass of grey slayers

 

Outrider squads geared for close combat or melting enemy elites (plasma... Expensive though)

 

Cortus squad for grav, and acting as anvils for the slayers/outriders

 

Apothecaries to buff the slayers

 

Land speeders for anti tank (grav and mm)

 

The either more anti-tank, or something very big and hitty (terminators+delivery system? Caestus?)

 

Between redblade scouting some of the infantry, the bikes having scout, and the Cortus having fleet, you should be able to put a lot of pressure on the enemy very early on in the game.

 

Not sure what to make of the hit and run utility... I'd be trying to bait the enemy into charges, and then counter charging as the second waves make their way up the board.

 

I think the trick is figuring out how best to use the heavy slot, but I fear it will no doubt go to giving one of the heavy units (terminators, or maybe deathsworn) a delivery system.

[Ranwulf]

The problem with Apothecaries to buff slayers is that if they RUN or SHOOT, they can't charge after it because they don't have the Warrior's Mantle special rule.

 

Ran

[Leman Russ SW]

I personally think the Termi unit is very good.  Arm them with a frost claw and power fist and they get 3 attacks base and can deal with 3+ or 2+, they cause fear with can be a big deal in 30K plus they are stubborn and WS6 on the charge so should be hitting most other units on 3's.  They I can see them going toe to toe with any other special unit apart from Suz's and Death Shroud.

[Robzilla]

The problem with Apothecaries to buff slayers is that if they RUN or SHOOT, they can't charge after it because they don't have the Warrior's Mantle special rule.

 

Ran

Gah, forgot about that.

Still think there is some merit to the overall list, in that it is swiftly applying enough pressure.

Bit of a pain you can't add in apothecaries to the squads though.

[Dantay VI]

So what is the point of them if they debuff the units you want to add them to?

 

Or will they still work well with the support units because they are from the AoD list,insteadof being legion specific?

[helterskelter]

When have apothecaries debuffed anything? You can attach them to Terror squads (as an example of something unique), they just need to update the entry for apothecaries to encompass the new units. Edited February 5, 2017 by helterskelter

[Robzilla]

They are fine to add to any unit that doesn't have warriors mettle.

 

Heck, they are fine to add to units who have warriors mettle, just means you won't be able to take advantage of the rule. It's fine if you're in a transport, not fine if you are footslogging.

 

Swings and roundabouts.

[Nova_chron]

I feel that we will be very similar to world eaters lists for the near future with squads in land Raiders outside of taking redblade for scouting 60 grey slayers forward ohhh man I'm getting a little excited just thinking about it

[Baluc]

Was up to 2 am... got no where. To people who think Wolves are "very" strong I suggest writing a list. If spamming marines was a viable strategy people would have been doing that already instead of doing everything in their power to bypass tacs and taking just enough vets to get a job done.

 

I think both RoW are a no go, people are failing to realize that the seeming "light" restrictions on the RoW and LA:Space wolves are compounded by the inbuilt restrictions to the army lists. For example priests can't take jump packs/bikes/jetbikes, meaning we are severly limited in units that they can be placed in. Grey Slayers can't have character support not even an apothecary. Only Speakers of the Dead can join Deathsworn, so we are looking at taking anywhere between 4 and 5 infantry units, in a game that now includes an 18 S:D nova. Take a look at the armylist forum I doubt you find a lists that has two responses before someone suggests trimming the fat and adding more armour. Guilty's 3x Drop Levi's are giving me a nervous break down.

 

I'll be spending today looking at OA likely, maybe just air dropping a Primarch into the opponents army will work. Its not how I would prefer to play but alas it seems to be FW intent that this is how I will play my wolves under 3k.

[Nova_chron]

I'm going to have a noodle at it later today and will post what I come up with on the board here for people's thoughts

[sturguard]

On a side note can someone ask when the actual models displayed will be sold- ie the Contemptor Dread, the IK Sons stuff- the only stuff FW has put up on their site is the custodes. When will the book go up for pre-sale?

[Slips]

There is literally no timeframe. Some could pop up next week, some might take a few months like the moritats weve known about for almost a year now.

 

Also, tactica is for tactics so keep it at that; we have discussion threads for models and stuff.

[Leman Russ SW]

I am personally going to run Wolves as an orbital assault army.  Russ or Preator, wolf priest and terms in a Special K.  Slayers in pods with 2 combi meltas a couple of PW and Huscarl with great frost blade and AA.  This will be my core then add to taste, maybe some flyers and assault marines.  Levi in pod, dread talon in pod.  

[Leman Russ SW]

That is something that I think need clarifying, hopefully someone will grab Alan today and find out.  The fact that Russ has a rule that allows other units to become compulsory makes me think that the rite of war rules will over ride it but it can be read either way, I can see an FAQ coming soon to clear up some points and make some fixes, especially with Magnus being able to hit everyone within 18" with S D lol

[Robzilla]

Seems to be split opinion on the matter.

I for one think it modifies the core legion list, and in turn can be modified by the rites of war.

Some Other opinions, not so much.

 

I think overall, there are a solid set of rules behind the Wolves. Probably going to commit to a force of them myself soon enough.

 

To be fair, it's hard to argue that they are pretty against the grain as far as the current meta goes, but that isn't truly a bad thing.

 

It's certainly shaken up my list building a lot and that's a good thing!

 

Edit:

I think the key (rather fluffy it is too) to success will be aggression. Get up close, fast, and hit the enemy hard, or force them into bad choices.

 

I'll admit I'm not quite up to making full lists using the SW only rates (still working on it)

But there's a lot of room for powerful lists with angels wrath, orbital assault, and drop assault vanguard (assuming the grey slayers aren't needed, Or you pop them in fliers) all apply pressure fast.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Robzilla

[AceofAllTradez]

Not sure if this has been answered yet, but do the unsaved wounds caused by sever life cause additional wounds if the toughness test is failed again?

[Leman Russ SW]

Usually with stuff like this it says does not cause additional hit, volkite etc.  So my guess would be no.