[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[The Scorpion]

 

Vigilator comes to mind.

 

 

Indeed, but then the vigilator is wasted. His rifle loadout means he is a shooty character meant to hang in the backlines with recon or seekers, and not only will he be taking away one HQ from your FOC, but also Warrior's Mettle from the poor slayers.

 

The other idea I had was fishing for the Master of Ambush starategic trait from the BRB... until I remembered that the wolves are locked with their own warlord table that is.

 

Creating cool synergies that play to the legion's strengths is harder than it seems, between the compulsory slayer troops, the HQ tax of characters that cannot join said troops without debuffing them, and the limited access to warlord traits, the listbuilding of the VIth is surprisingly deceptive.

The fluff hints at a flexible and loosely organized force with a diffuse command structure, whereas the crunch is very restrictive.

[Gorgoff]

"His rifle loadout means he is a shooty character meant to hang in the backlines with recon or seekers"

Right premise, wrong conclusion. ;)

The Vigilators sole purpose is to get units to outflank or let them scouts. Everything after that is a nice bonus. But he is kind of cool to scout seekers because they suck if they can't.

But otherwise I'd outflank units with him which gain something out of it.

 

"and not only will he be taking away one HQ from your FOC, but also Warrior's Mettle from the poor slayers"

Give him a jump pack, scout and after that jump him somewhere else.

 

"The other idea I had was fishing for the Master of Ambushstarategic trait from the BRB... until I remembered that the wolves are locked with their own warlord table that is."

Yes, sucks.

I'd add the tax HQ to a unit without Warriors mettle instead. Like a very expensive sergeant.

[The Scorpion]

You know what would fix the Grey Hunters? Making it more similar to Recon Company RoW. I was re-reading book 7 and it dawned on me that this rite was meant to embody a reconnaissance force. The artwok for Inferno shows a MKIV recon marine as the posterboy for the "pale hunters" formation, and even mentions how he carries melta bombs to counter the lack of amoured support (single Heavy Support restriction comes to mind). The part about the censure force's strategical disposition for the battle of prospero also describes it as a recon formation.

 

So how would this work in game? By allowing recon marines to be troops in pale hunters.

 

For starters, instead of making Grey Slayers compulsory in SW armies, simply give Support Squad to all non-slayer troops. That way the wolves still need to take slayers as their default troops, but can take the vanilla RoWs in the same way as the other legions.

 

As for Pale Hunters, allow for Recon Squads to be taken as troops alongside slayers. That way you get units with in-built access to Scout who synergize with the theme of coming from reserves and outflanking.

The RoW should keep the Heavy Support restriction, but specify that the LoW choice cannot be of the tank type. Apply this to the vanilla Recon Company RoW too, so people don't get around the HS restrictions by fielding Shadowswords.

[Bung]

Your suggestion is already in the FaQ

 

A Space Wolves Detachment must fulfil its compulsory Troops choices with Grey Slayer Packs (see page 230). All other Troops choices found in a Space Wolves Detachment gain the Support Squad special rule (if they do not already possess it). Note that when making use of a Rite of War which stipulates that another unit can be taken as a compulsory Troops choice, a Space Wolves detachment may instead take that unit to fulfil its compulsory Troops choices in order to meet the requirements of that Rite of War

[The Scorpion]

Your suggestion is already in the FaQ

 

A Space Wolves Detachment must fulfil its compulsory Troops choices with Grey Slayer Packs (see page 230). All other Troops choices found in a Space Wolves Detachment gain the Support Squad special rule (if they do not already possess it). Note that when making use of a Rite of War which stipulates that another unit can be taken as a compulsory Troops choice, a Space Wolves detachment may instead take that unit to fulfil its compulsory Troops choices in order to meet the requirements of that Rite of War

 

Oh nice. I thought they had just slapped a rule that allowed to bypass the previous requirement.

 

 

I still hope that the other legions will get the Night Lords treatment in future Red Books though. Especially the recently released Dark Angels, but it appplies to the wolves too. Their listbuilding is hella inflexible.

[Bung]

Personly i think SW are a rather flexible army as the Grey Slayers have flexible equipment like veterans.

After playing against SW since third Edition 40k i dont think the HQ requirements are much of a tax. Not with all the options you have in 30k.

[Gorgoff]

Personly i think SW are a rather flexible army as the Grey Slayers have flexible equipment like veterans.

After playing against SW since third Edition 40k i dont think the HQ requirements are much of a tax. Not with all the options you have in 30k.

Same here.

Who takes tactical squads?

World Eaters happily but most of the other legions only do so if they can't help it.

Same with Assault squads and breacher.

There is a reason why player love pride of the legion and other Row which allow other units like terminator as troops. Grey Slayer are a whole other cup of tea. They can punch the can shoot and the have tons of option. And for a infantry unit they are reasonable fast because they can run and charge without the need to take any additional models or RoW.

[Gorgoff]

DOUBLEPOSTACTION

 

15 slayer with ten bolters, two poweraxes, two powerfists and a Huscarl with Great Frost Weapon is a good choice, no?

[Leman Russ SW]

Huscarl can't take a great frost weapon just regular ones. How you deploying the unit?

[Gorgoff]

Huscarl can't take a great frost weapon just regular ones. How you deploying the unit?

In the FAQ it says he can take a Frost Weapon. Not blades. So I say: Yes, he can.

Anyway, I plan of taking two squads of round about 15 dudes with 10 boltguns, two power axes, two power fists, Vexilia AA+ meltabombs+ frost weapon at the Huscarl. I think about giving him a combat shield as well.

With Hvarl Red-Blade in this army the can scout and that sounds like a good way to field them.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Gorgoff

[Lucien Eilam]

In the FAQ it says he can take a Frost Weapon. Not blades. So I say: Yes, he can.

 

I’m afraid you’ve been misled by the stupid way they wrote the FAQ. It says exactly the opposite.

 

The original entry in Inferno was:

 

​The Huscarl may take one of the following options:

• […]
• Exchange their close combat weapon for a frost weapon. +15 points

 

The FAQ says:

 

Grey Slayer Pack (Page 230)

In the Options selection, under the following bullet point, replace the reference to ‘frost weapon’ with ‘frost blade’:

 

‘The Huscarl may take one of the following options:

• Exchange their close combat weapon for a frost weapon…’

 

 

Key text: “under the following bullet point, replace the reference to ‘frost weapon’ with ‘frost blade’”.

 

i.e. the bit in red is listing the old, wrong text that you're supposed to change to “frost blade”, not the new text that should replace what’s in Inferno.

[Gorgoff]

 

In the FAQ it says he can take a Frost Weapon. Not blades. So I say: Yes, he can.

 

I’m afraid you’ve been misled by the stupid way they wrote the FAQ. It says exactly the opposite.

 

The original entry in Inferno was:

 

​The Huscarl may take one of the following options:

• […]
• Exchange their close combat weapon for a frost weapon. +15 points

 

The FAQ says:

 

Grey Slayer Pack (Page 230)

In the Options selection, under the following bullet point, replace the reference to ‘frost weapon’ with ‘frost blade’:

 

‘The Huscarl may take one of the following options:

• Exchange their close combat weapon for a frost weapon…’

 

 

Key text: “under the following bullet point, replace the reference to ‘frost weapon’ with ‘frost blade’”.

 

i.e. the bit in red is listing the old, wrong text that you're supposed to change to “frost blade”, not the new text that should replace what’s in Inferno.

 

Damn.... you are right.

That's a bummer since I've already build two Huscarls with Great Frost Weapons... 

 

EDIT: Is there a reason to give a Huscarl a frost weapon for 15 points instead of a power fist for 10?

Edited March 30, 2021 by Gorgoff

[Leman Russ SW]

Nope

[Gorgoff]

Nope

That's a damn shame.

Since 5th edition I usually only play one HQ if I can help it but know I have to take 3 of them for a regular 2000 points game. It makes writing a list a challange.

What to take and where to put?

In Slayers you don't want any character apart from not-Bjorn Fell Hand or an apothecary which makes is even more difficult.

[The Scorpion]

http://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1646223616144.jpg

 

Bulky(4), huh? So Russ has the same bulk as his wolves now. And with the new Land Raider Proteus (Carrier) becoming an assault vehicle with Transport Capacity 12, looks like the squad will fit inside like a glove.

[MichaelCarmine]

So...how much Assault Squads do you guys plan to field?

Since, if the rules stay that way, everybody and their mother practically get Warriors Mettle? xD

 

Edit: I know, they now lack Meltabombs, but with the new outflank rules, i think anti-tank is not the problem.

 

Just a shame, that there are no more puppies for our ICs... I always tried to field as many as possible... =(

Edited April 25, 2022 by MichaelCarmine

[Gorgoff]

I twll you when I have the new rules in my hands.

[MichaelCarmine]

Aaaaand IF they would stay like those from Phase 3? =]

[Gorgoff]

Aaaaand IF they would stay like those from Phase 3? =]

I tell you when I have the new rules in my hands. ;)

My project SW is on ice so far because some of the models I bought for that army have been gone apparently. Or not? I don't know. Until then I can't say which units ar viable or even in the list.

So far I think that units with boltpistols and chainswords are better but I can't say if they are better than units in Land Raiders etc.

[MichaelCarmine]

 

Aaaaand IF they would stay like those from Phase 3? =]

I tell you when I have the new rules in my hands.

My project SW is on ice so far because some of the models I bought for that army have been gone apparently. Or not? I don't know. Until then I can't say which units ar viable or even in the list.

So far I think that units with boltpistols and chainswords are better but I can't say if they are better than units in Land Raiders etc.

 

Yeah, i got you, my Caestus was (is?) an integral part of my List(s) so far, just becaus i love it so much...

If it should really be gone for good, that would be a mayor bummer...

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well assault squads would get WS 5 on the charge instead of charge and run, as jump packs can't run in this edition.

 

Still very useful, but not run and charge.

[MichaelCarmine]

Well assault squads would get WS 5 on the charge instead of charge and run, as jump packs can't run in this edition.

 

Still very useful, but not run and charge.

except that assault squads are equipped with legion warhawk jumppacks, which still allow them to run.

So - 12" - 4" - snapshots - 2d6+2"

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

Well assault squads would get WS 5 on the charge instead of charge and run, as jump packs can't run in this edition.

 

Still very useful, but not run and charge.

except that assault squads are equipped with legion warhawk jumppacks, which still allow them to run.

So - 12" - 4" - snapshots - 2d6+2"

I definitely feel like I read that very early on, and then forgot about it by the time I read the core rules stuff. The layout of rules is a bit unintuitive at this point.

 

Definitely take assault squads then; they're terrifyingly fast (rip white scars and their obviously in progress rules).

[MichaelCarmine]

Yeah, same here xD

 

Yessum! I already have one, but think will build a second one - 'cause we'll need all the Line-Troops, we can get xD