[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[1ncarnadine]

So I did ask Alan about Rites of War and the Grey Slayers compulsory troops restriction vs Pride of the Legion & Primarch's Chosen and he cryptically responded with, "Well, due to their restrictions there are some Rites of War they will not be able to take." So, not a direct yes or no, but probably leaning towards no?

[sturguard]

So, Hvarl gives 3 units scout. I understand that a unit that has scout also grants this ability to the dedicated transport they are in- so they both can scout-or outflank. Can you also add in a HQ to the unit since it says only 1 model needs to have the scout rule? So in this instance, a 5 man melta support squad with say a Speaker of the dead in a rhino?

 

Thanks

[sturguard]

I see 30K Wolf players are continuing the tradition of being the whiniest Legion despite being better than many older rulesets. Sad.

 

So unless people are just cheering for the rules they are whining? I'd rather have some discussion with everyone expressing their opinion- good or bad (after all that is what conversation is) than read remarks like this which are just bullying at heart. The message you are passing along is, if you say anything negative, you're a whiner and should leave, come on man, you're better than that.

[Withershadow]

Vague answer from Alan potentially very severe. Yeah the fluff talks about them just using masses of warriors rather than proper combined arms forces, but that means Pride of the Legion is not an option and if you want troop vets you must take Russ?

Edited February 6, 2017 by Slipstreams

[Robzilla]

Huh... If that's the case, it's a bit of a rough deal.

I mean, you could still take the vets and termites with pride right? Just as support squads... You would still need the grey slayers mind.

 

Not sure how I feel about that. Bit of a pain, but at least slayers are pretty solid I guess...

[Hfran Morkai]

As I'm not likely to be using Russ I imagine my first two Slayer packs will be ten men with bolters, maybe a hidden Fist and some toys on the Huscarl.

 

As I'm planning on using Orbital Assault most of the time I might have those come on later allowing me to get the tastier stuff on the table.

[sturguard]

Nah, I'll just ask you tactics questions and try to pull some answers out of you-

 

So Fury of the Pack, if you declare a charge and successfully roll to get into combat, then say a second squad also assaults that same target, are they now counted as being locked in combat?

 

What do folks think about Deathsworn in a Phobos LR then have Hvarl give them scout. The LR could then outflank and should arrive on turn 2 if you are using the first SW RoW. You could even put Hvarl with them giving them preferred enemy infantry and Hvarl is nice as he has a bit of anti tank too if needed.

 

For the Bloodied Claws RoW, are terminator units considered Slow and Purposeful? I never get the Cataphractii vs Tartaros rules right. 

[Baluc]

Disappointing but not unexpected. Assault rules do not a powerful army make. I'm a wolves player, and I'll grind the math until I figure something out though.

 

At a glance hidden fists seem like a trap. 1 A model? Rather have a plain old power weapon and load the sgt to kill aa/fist characters.

[Baluc]

Cataphracts don't have slow and purposeful. Nothing in the legion list does of the top of my head.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Pride is off the table, since you must fill it with vets/terminators and your legion rules say you must always fill with slayers; pride is part of the Age of Darkness list

[Nova_chron]

Cataphracts don't have slow and purposeful. Nothing in the legion list does of the top of my head.

I totally forgot that change happened so we can run our unique wolf guard unit in the rite... Was literally the biggest thing pushing me away from running it. I'm used to having to charge close stuff as I played in the era of headstrong bloodclaws in 40k may have to look at that again because other thanno allies it is not all that limiting to my army

[Marshal Rohr]

I'm feeling an all shield bearing shattered legion army. Ultras with shields and Gladii, Fists and Wolves with shields and Axes, And Iron Hands with volkites. The ultimate shield wall.

[Baluc]

I have no idea why our terminators are so expensive. I think they may be the most expensive terminator unit in the game... more than Justaerin. Madness.

[The Native]

Tyrant Siege Terminators, Red Butchers and Firedrake Terminators are all more expensive. Phoenix Guard Terminators are five points cheaper. If you don't know why Varagyr are the price they are then you probably need to study the unit entry and their special rules. Edited February 5, 2017 by The Native

[Baluc]

3 terminator units are more expensive than them and 2 are 5 points they are 5 points cheaper than the units more expensive than them... both have 2 wounds

The 3rd have CYCLONE MISSILE LAUNCHERS!
 

Edited February 6, 2017 by Slipstreams

[Robzilla]

OK, so just noticed something with the grey slayers which makes things quite nice potentially.

 

One in five can have a power fist (hidden fists are always good!) but any number can have power weapons too (axes seem like a good choice if you're skipping fists).

 

However the huskarl is allowed a 'frost weapon'. No restriction against taking a great frost blade right? You can chomp away at other powerfist sergeants with relative impunity.

 

170 points for two hidden power fists, a sarge who can strike at ap2 before fists and axes, and guaranteed +1 attack in the first round of combat is brutal. It's a nasty unit dropping out of a pod, that's for sure!

[The Native]

Yes. And tooled up like that it's only 20 points more than a regular Tac squad before upgrades.

[Coptimas]

Good evening ladies and gentlemen, I'm new here and not particularly experienced when it comes to internet forums etc, so may I first say hello to all and greetings from a heresy mad fanatic who loves some fluffy, themed but also absolutely balls out backs to the wall gaming, and by this I also mean the same for my amry lists too .

 

As such with some deep thought and much consideration I think that our Vlka Fenryka are fantastic.

 

The standard legion list provides some really wholesome skulduggery when it comes to specific units for specific jobs and what Forgeworld have done is replace the bogo tacticals' and simple legion terminators with two Swiss army knife units that can be fantastically focused should the need arise.

 

Sure we have some weaknesses, but those are manly only going to show up with poor list building, or against lists that are designed with tournament level brokenness at there fore front, and that can be planned for accordingly.

 

I cant wait to ram 20 Grey Slayers kitted out with combi melta, combat shields, Vexilla and led by an artificer armor wearing great frost blade wielding pack leader down some poor souls throat.

 

As an aside, do lists go here? or is it just tactical talk and mild probing etc?

 

Many thanks

[1ncarnadine]

Did not realize that you're effectively always 2 attacks with a power fist on the Grey Slayers between charging or Counter-Attack. That is a nice trick!

 

Sure we have some weaknesses, but those are manly

 

Welcome to the forum! I see you already have some profound wisdom for us all ;) (not knocking the typo, it just ended up being a sweet quote)

 

The Tactica is primarily for theory-crafting. There is a separate forum in the AoD section for lists, but sometimes they end up here, or parts of them, and that's ok. I think we mostly just want to avoid list-glut in these threads or they become hard to read.

[Baluc]

I'm not sure what tactics there are to discuss. Its basically a unit selection puzzle. Finding places to put all these mandatory hqs, that aren't grey slayers since then they would lose their rules...

 

I'm actually sitting here writing lists with no RoW because any more restictions and I'll be unable to field and army that can make it across no man's land.

[Charlo]

Edited out my childish response to a particular frater.
 

 

OK, so just noticed something with the grey slayers which makes things quite nice potentially.

One in five can have a power fist (hidden fists are always good!) but any number can have power weapons too (axes seem like a good choice if you're skipping fists).

However the huskarl is allowed a 'frost weapon'. No restriction against taking a great frost blade right? You can chomp away at other powerfist sergeants with relative impunity.

170 points for two hidden power fists, a sarge who can strike at ap2 before fists and axes, and guaranteed +1 attack in the first round of combat is brutal. It's a nasty unit dropping out of a pod, that's for sure!

 

That is really great and sounds super wolfy

Edited February 5, 2017 by Charlo

[Baluc]

For example 10 grey slayers are actually on paper a decent unit. Relative good flexability, should be able to with modest investment beat up on other army's troops.

Except you then realize that people do everything in their power to not field those units. So, then invest a bit more and hope they punch above their weight. Normally this would mean units like apothecaries, which they can't do.

So flow leads back to cheap and cheerful compulsory troops. Probably jusy 2 combis and a great frost blade, in a rhino.

The problem I keep running up against is that my 3 hqs just end up deathstaring because I can't see myself going deeper down the foot infantry tree.

So its Praetor, Champion and forgelord all on bikes or jetbikes. Since I can't take a dreadclaw, and I want to aoid the beardiness of 3xIC and terminators in a spartan.

I think people miss understand my ire. I can build a tournament level list. Its everything short of that we are going to struggle with. No legion has as many restrictions as SW the most intellectually free and independant legion...

Edited February 5, 2017 by Baluc

[Coptimas]

Did not realize that you're effectively always 2 attacks with a power fist on the Grey Slayers between charging or Counter-Attack. That is a nice trick!

 

Sure we have some weaknesses, but those are manly

 

Welcome to the forum! I see you already have some profound wisdom for us all (not knocking the typo, it just ended up being a sweet quote)

 

The Tactica is primarily for theory-crafting. There is a separate forum in the AoD section for lists, but sometimes they end up here, or parts of them, and that's ok. I think we mostly just want to avoid list-glut in these threads or they become hard to read.

 

 

Thanks for the warm welcome! An although a typo, manly is the name of our failings.

 

With regard to the Grey Slayers I really think they are worth the points investing in them. Obviously dependent on what lists you usually face but I really cant get away from the idea of sixty of these boys charging up the field as quick as they can, do you all regularly come across battle fields that can account for that many deaths early in game?

 

I think parameters wise these boys could really be the change in meta for not fielding lots of infantry.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Coptimas

[depthcharge12]

I have mentioned my 2000 point list and have yet to have anyone comment lol. Quite handy for what it does, and it gives 40 Gray Slayers a 5++ while they're running across the board.

 

If anyone plays against you in a 2000 point list with 3 leviathans, you're playing the wrong game, or you should be that guy and just spam shatter shell rapiers to teach the guy a lesson. Or hell, take Russ and watch those leviathans not be able to hit him by turn 2 in combat.

 

I think many of you are getting your minds wrapped around unforseeable battles that won't even take place unless you know a guy that runs a jerk list in your meta. In which case, list tailor to your hearts content.

 

I could give a crap beyond the Deathsworn living past killing an elite unit. Points shmoints, if you take out the big nasty in your enemy's army, they still have to deal with 40 or so Gray Slayers that want to punch them in the face.

 

Still any comers for giving a fair assessment of my 2000 point list besides "spam shatter rapiers, and spam vets?" Because seriously that makes every legion boring.

[temneb]

Yeah I'm liking the grey slayers on paper as well. Red Blade provides some interesting options as well, in scouting dedicated transports. My only issue is I'm already invested in WE and the play styles look like they are going to be too similar for my to be able to justify a move into Wolves. Which is a shame as Wolves where my original 40k army.