[HH1.0] Blood Angels Tactica - Assault Cannons For Days

[Slips]

^Nah, pretty much every invuln and FnP in heresy comes with the caveat of a 3+ cap.

 

The Emperors Children relic parrying blade is about the only one that isn't.

And the only reason that it has a 2++ cap is because you trade another stat for it on top of its points cost.

[Sanct]

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon (360pts)

··Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Cyclonic Melta Lance, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod, Leviathan Siege Drill]

 

 

 

Give 'em some nipple mounted assault cannons!  2 assault cannons > 2 heavy flamers

[Slips]

If I had the points for it, sure. But the list was pretty much on the dot and other upgrades were bringing more to the list than MORE guns on the Leviathan.

[TheCelticRaven]

If you REALLY wanted to, you could swap both Primus' in my proposed list for Vigilators with Jump Packs who come stock with a Cameleoline.

 

Stealth + Shrouded From Pods + Cover Save from Dropping in.

 

So yeah.

 

Its a thing you can do.

even better if you get night fighting

Edited March 24, 2016 by TheCelticRaven

[Sanct]

If I had the points for it, sure. But the list was pretty much on the dot and other upgrades were bringing more to the list than MORE guns on the Leviathan.

 

You can trade the cyclonic melta and/or siege drill for it. I'd probably go for a phosphex discharger as well.

It's pretty much a wash but you could also drop the leviathan entirely for another cortus.

Either way you're deep striking the guy so more guns for that early alpha is useful.

 

 

Legion Praetor (205pts) [Artificer Armour, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Jump Pack, Mastercraft a Single Weapon, Melta Bombs, Paragon Blade]

··Master of the Legion [The Day of Revelation]

 

 

 

and drop the mastercrafted/meltabombs for a power fist.  Less fluffy but a little more focus on melee than tank slapping.

[Blindhamster]

If you take a power fist, I'd also swap the paragon blade for blade of Perdition.

[Slips]

This Leviathan Loadout is to deal wtih heavy armor; something this list is lacking. Id keep if as is since it has the potential to 1 shot a knight when it drops in.

 

If this list had an Infantry Killing problem, id be surprised.

 

Id never swap a melta bomb out for a Power Fist. The S8 Armorbane is more useful to me, especially on a character like this, than +1A and the possibility of striking at I1 S8 ap2.

 

In this instance, the power fist would only really be used vs MCs, which you ID on a 6 with the Paragon Anyways or multiwound marines...which you can ID with the Paragon while going first anyways.

 

Using the power fist at any point as an actual weapon just ups the chance of your Preator getting killed at the same time as everything else at i1 instead of going at i6 on the charge and possibly dealing more damage.

 

The meltabomb, however, would let you deal with any charging dreadnoughts or to pop a vehicle here and there when required.

 

So, to me, its only real use would be as +1A and for its cost, Id rather just keep Master-Crafted for a re-roll since that would average out to roughly the same outcome.

 

But, if you free up the cost of a Power Fist from elsewhere in the list and take it in addition to everything else as a bonus +1A then fine, whatever.

 

Besides, due to Legion Rules your Woundinf on a 2+ anyways.

 

@Blindhamster: the Blade of Perdition is Two-Handed. Youd be getting literally no benefit for running that combo :p outside of having two weapon options.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Blindhamster]

Paragon blades are two handed as well.

 

The benefit of blade of Perdition vs paragon blade is that a MC paragon blade is twice the points cost and the blade of Perdition will put out more wounds on average.

 

After my last game where I used one I'm totally in love with the weapon if you hadn't guessed.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Blindhamster

[Slips]

No they arent. Theyre Specialist Weapons.

[Blindhamster]

Lol somehow whenever I've read their rules my brain has always inserted two handed in there!

 

However I still think the blade of Perdition is going to get better milage most of the time. 5 attacks, 6 on the charge is potentially 10-12 wounds on the best day. It was a dream to use in my last game.

[Slips]

Its good for forcing saves or chewing through stuff that has a large wound pool true! And thats a very good selling points.

 

However, the day youre up against a preator with a source of FNP and either a 4++ or better (3++ being the cap in 30k), that Single Instant Death wound that goes through will be worth much more than all the wounds caused by the blade of perdition.

 

But if you want a cheap but effective Preator, the blade of perdition is a solid choice.

[Blindhamster]

Anyone that's good at math hammer fancy working out the odds for each?

 

Seems to me that in the case where a praetor has a great invulnerable, the chances of getting that ID wound through are slim?

 

Vs such a praetor I doubt either build has a good statistical chance to win in a round, but I'd love to see the maths for it.

[Charlo]

OKAY so, against another Preator:

 

6 attacks with each weapon for digi-lasers and charging...

 

VS 4++

 

-Paragon Blade: 3 Hit > 2.5 Wound > 1.25 Wounds suffered. 0.41 chance of it being ID

-Perdition: 3 Hit > (2) 4 Wounds > 2 Wounds suffered. No ID.

 

VS 3++

 

-Paragon Blade: 3 Hit > 2.5 Wound > 0.83 Wounds suffered. 0.41 chance of it being ID.

-Perdition: 3 Hit > (2) 4 Wounds > 1.33 Wounds suffered. No ID.

 

VERY basic, but unless you are going for that insta-gib the Perdition may be better?

[Blindhamster]

Yeah that's what my instincts were saying.

 

Obviously that ID is what you really want, but you have such a tiny chance of getting it, seems like we are better served by going first and trying to force more wounds through - even more so if we can get rad grenades from another character being involved or a librarian lowering enemy toughness or save chance (biomancy or divination respectively)

Edited March 24, 2016 by Blindhamster

[Charlo]

I did! 

 

Hence why 3 hits from a paragon translates into 2.5 wounds (5/6 OR 2+) to wound and 3 hits from the Perdition goes to (2)4 wounds, as it is 4/6 OR 3+ wound.

[Blindhamster]

Haha yeah I realised I was going mad and combating the wrong numbers just after writing that extra bit which is why I removed it!

 

To me it seems like the blade of Perdition is better and is easier to make even better through outside sources to reduce enemy toughness, add strength or attacks etc.

[Blindhamster]

Also as the blade of Perdition is MC it has a slightly better chance to hit.

 

If we say the paragon blade is also MC then it's twice as many points, so the one with Blade of Perdition has likely got a better gun. Or something else in the army has benefited from those points

[Charlo]

With the master crafting the Perdition gets...

 

2.333 Wounds vs a 4++

1.555 Wounds vs a 3++

 

...ish.

[Sanct]

Against another Preator: 

6 attacks with each weapon for digi-lasers and charging

 

VS T4 4++

 

-Paragon Blade: 3 Hit --> 2.5 Wound --> 1.25 Wounds suffered. 0.417 ID wounds suffered (actually about a 23% chance of 1+ unsaved ID wounds)

-Perdition: 3.25 Hit --> (2.167) 4.333 Wounds --> 2.167 Wounds suffered. No ID.

-Power Fist: 3 Hit --> 2.5 Wound --> 1.25 ID Wounds suffered  (about a 75% chance of 1+ unsaved ID wounds)

 

VS T4 3++

 

-Paragon Blade: 3 Hit --> 2.5 Wound --> 0.83 Wounds suffered. 0.278 ID wounds suffered (about a 15% chance of 1+ unsaved ID wounds)

-Perdition: 3.25 Hit --> (2.167) 4.333 Wounds --> 1.444 Wounds suffered. No ID.

-Power Fist: 3 Hit --> 2.5 Wound --> 0.83 ID Wounds suffered  (about a 59% chance of 1+ unsaved ID wounds)

 

VS Castellax (T7 5++)

 

-Paragon Blade: 4 Hit --> 1.3 Wound --> 0.89 Wounds suffered. 0.44 ID wounds suffered (about a 63% chance of 1+ unsaved ID wounds)

-Perdition: 4.222 Hit --> (1.407) 2.815 Wounds --> 1.877 Wounds suffered. No ID.

-Power Fist: 3 Hit --> 2.5 Wound --> 2.22 Wounds suffered. No ID

 

Paragon is better for generalist work, low invul MC and wish-fulfillment on multiwounders 

Power Fist is better versus non-EW multi wounders, very high toughness and 3++ (but at I1)

Perdition is better versus EW multi wounders (but with no T8+ capability)

 

note: expected number of wounds is not probability.

 

 

Id never swap a melta bomb out for a Power Fist.

 

Different strokes for different folks and all but I appreciate being able to multi-charge a tank and a squad so the character can slap the tanks rear armour while still being tied in combat during my opponents next turn.  Pile in and spank the squad with the character in their assault phase.

 

You could drop 3 hk missiles and the mc for me ideas but you seem fixed.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Sanct

[Blindhamster]

 

 (but with no T8+ capability)

 

 

 

is that the case? our LA rule says we wound 1 easier than normal. so, if something is toughness 8 and we normally couldnt wound it, wouldnt we wound it on 6s?

 

 

different question, how about swapping one of the raptors in Slipstreams list for a xiphon? (im doing an order later so hoping for input haha)

[Sabadin]

 

 

(but with no T8+ capability)

 

 

 

is that the case? our LA rule says we wound 1 easier than normal. so, if something is toughness 8 and we normally couldnt wound it, wouldnt we wound it on 6s?

Without having the book, it depends on the exact wording. If states that it increases your S or decrease their T, then yes. Otherwise no, because 6+1 =/= N/A,which is what the to wound chart says you need.

[Blindhamster]

Hmm if that's the case I start to think our rules are bad again. No effect on vehicles and being unable to wound t8 makes it inferior to furious charge in a lot of cased as most fights don't take more than a round

[Charlo]

Pfft no need for it to affect vehicles. That is what we have inferno pistols for!

[Slips]

Also, how many T8 units/models can you name from the top of your head?

[Blindhamster]

Fine fine I'll stop being doom and gloom! :P

 

So... xiphon, worth using?