The future of Sisters

[BitsHammer]

Not all Sisters should have stubborn, just Argent Shroud since they're known for using their head, not emotions making their Retributors extra scary for the foe as they emotionlessly butcher the heretics.

[Servant of Dante]

Ok. I don't know much about the individual orders.

 

How would you like to express the training of the sisters, specifically.

[grendal1989]

Given how Blood Tithe works, I don't think it is unlikely that sisters would get a similar type mechanic. Generate Faith points, spend them on stuff, BAM MIRACLES! 

[ValourousHeart]

For faith, I love shield of faith. It's one of my absolute favorite special rules. Personally, I don't like the idea of AoFs only really going off once every few games, but that's just me. Maybe if not every UNIT gets their benefit to work . . .

 

I also really like shield of faith, in fact I like it better than the 3rd edition act of faith that gave us an inv save, even though that one was a better save.

 

For faith the frequency really depends upon the power level.

If the faith effect is something like the unit has a 20% chance to becomes fearless this turn, then yeah it should be available every game or better still every turn.

 

But on the other hand if it is your entire army gains armourbane, fleshbane, rend, shred, soulblaze, and strikedown to CC and Shooting for the rest of the game... that probably shouldn't happen every game... or at least it should not take effect on turn 1 or 2 of every game.

[Servant of Dante]

 

 

For faith, I love shield of faith. It's one of my absolute favorite special rules. Personally, I don't like the idea of AoFs only really going off once every few games, but that's just me. Maybe if not every UNIT gets their benefit to work . . .

I also really like shield of faith, in fact I like it better than the 3rd edition act of faith that gave us an inv save, even though that one was a better save.

 

For faith the frequency really depends upon the power level.

If the faith effect is something like the unit has a 20% chance to becomes fearless this turn, then yeah it should be available every game or better still every turn.

 

But on the other hand if it is your entire army gains armourbane, fleshbane, rend, shred, soulblaze, and strikedown to CC and Shooting for the rest of the game... that probably shouldn't happen every game... or at least it should not take effect on turn 1 or 2 of every game.

I'd prefer to keep acts on the unit level, but that is an option. Maybe something like a 20ish percent chance per unit per game. That way you should get to see cool faith action every time you play. A little easier to plan around, that way.

[Blackarmor_redtruth]

I like the idea of each AoF having grand and sweeping effects, but don't happen as often. The current system seems decent IMO, though honestly it's the only one I've ever known/used.

 

For the actual AoF, in the retributor example, say Rending, Ignores Cover, and doesn't need LOS. THAT feels like the Emperor guiding the squad. Perhaps let a canoness's AoF give her and any unit she is with Hatred, Shred, and TL as she guides those around her in a furious round of death. I like the Celestians current one for example, lots of bonuses making sure they get where they need to be (once there ~meh, but that's a different convo.). Things like those, that an opponent would fear going off and that would make a change in the game feel more in line with Faith manifesting itself, more so than some small little thing they have now that seems to me more "oh, I really hate that enemy extra for this round".

 

Shield of Faith 5+ seems good until you see all the crazy heresy out there that is the psychic phase. If it let us Deny things like blessings too, that would be appropriate: "NO. My Emperor says no to that foul thing you call blessings". This would make us pretty anti-psyker (not comment atm for tyranids' Shadow in the Warp...) which is great and what we should be doing. Psykers should fear us when we're on their trail and lose some concentration.

 

[BitsHammer]

All this talk got my home brewing going. I'm going to see if I can crank something acceptable out over the next couple of days.

[Servant of Dante]

All this talk got my home brewing going. I'm going to see if I can crank something acceptable out over the next couple of days.

That's what I was hoping someone would do. I'm not sure I would know where to go, but I'd love to contribute once you've got a concept (If you haven't noticed, writing homebrew rules is one of the things I don when I should be painting)!\\

 

I might do my own home brew as well . . . then we could combine our ideas (or not, your choice)

[BitsHammer]

I'm the kind of nut who mails in a homebrew recommendation to GW in response to the current codex. With bribery chocolate in the envelope.

 

Note: I did this when the 6th Ed book dropped.

[Servant of Dante]

I'm the kind of nut who mails in a homebrew recommendation to GW in response to the current codex. With bribery chocolate in the envelope.

 

Note: I did this when the 6th Ed book dropped.

Wow . . . I assume the stuff I write is mediocre, and even if it isn't I would assume my letter would be ignored.

 

I'd like to think you made someone laugh though. That might be worth it.

 

With my stuff, I always put a lot of effort into maintain the feel and mechanical base of the source material (see the rambling about the Palatine I posted today. Please? Somebody?)

[BitsHammer]

I got a serious reply back. And they liked the chocolates.

[Servant of Dante]

I got a serious reply back. And they liked the chocolates.

Wow! What did you send (on the non-chocolate related side) and what did they say?

 

Maybe they'd like to see my Celestian rewrite . . .

[BitsHammer]

They passed the rules onto the rules team and the chocolates to the female staffers.

 

Mostly it was mainly pleasantries for my suission but the fact they didn't send it back with a note that said "hahahahaha are you joking?" made me happy enough.

 

Might do another submission.

[Servant of Dante]

Might email them the celestian rewrite. I thought those went over pretty well. I don't even want to think what a hassle sending a letter from the US to England would be.

Also, for the AoFs, I'm leaning toward a modification of the 5E system, since it would mirror the psychic phase. I might have you activate faith powers at the beginning or the end of the psychic phase, just so it feels different a bit.

Also, earlier today on BoLS, someone commented something to the effect of "no new models recently, probably something new coming soon" and for a few second I let myself believe it was plastic sisters and a full update to rival that of the eldar. It was slightly euphoric. Then I came back to reality.

Can you tell it's late where I am? Not sure if that face is appropriate.

Edit: I think I want to start a "Sisters Homebrew Repository" thread. It would be fun to have something to curate. I kinda doubt people would take the effort to dig out their old stuff though

[Spacefrisian]

I like doing homebrew stuff, even if my ideas arent always liked.

[BitsHammer]

Thousand Sons, Daemon Primarch Magnus and Deathwatch are what the rumor mongers report as "coming soon".

[dracpanzer]

Would Acts of Faith work better like the old Black Templar oaths? You pick one from a list of say six (perhaps one based on the fluff of each of the original six orders) at the start of the game. Each unit can then manifest their Act of Faith by passing a leadership check in the appropriate turn phase.

 

Sisters units could then tailor their AoF to their opponent. Use the AoF in each turn if they get lucky with their leadership rolls while reducing in game paperwork.

 

Simulacrum could either allow a re-roll on AoF checks, or return to more of a Banner bubble effect. Martyrdom could then be represented by either an auto pass for AoF that turn or as a separate one turn effect akin to a chapter trait the turn after the Martyr is slain.

 

Would fit well in a Sisters tactical objectives set. One card for Martyrdom, six cards to cover each of the six AoF and then the Maelstrom cards.

[Servant of Dante]

Would Acts of Faith work better like the old Black Templar oaths? You pick one from a list of say six (perhaps one based on the fluff of each of the original six orders) at the start of the game. Each unit can then manifest their Act of Faith by passing a leadership check in the appropriate turn phase.

 

Sisters units could then tailor their AoF to their opponent. Use the AoF in each turn if they get lucky with their leadership rolls while reducing in game paperwork.

 

Simulacrum could either allow a re-roll on AoF checks, or return to more of a Banner bubble effect. Martyrdom could then be represented by either an auto pass for AoF that turn or as a separate one turn effect akin to a chapter trait the turn after the Martyr is slain.

 

Would fit well in a Sisters tactical objectives set. One card for Martyrdom, six cards to cover each of the six AoF and then the Maelstrom cards.

I really like what Fulkes has done with AoFs in her revision thread. She tied the power to your "martyrdom total" (the number of dead unit leaders/ICs) which I think helps emphasize the faith aspect, while a "chapter tactics" equivilent helps show the superior training and discipline of the sisters.

[graysparrow]

Might email them....

 

A hand written letter will get much more attention than an email.  A hand written letter, with good penmanship, and chocolate, will get yet more.  

 

 

As far as homebrew rules go, I'd suggest special bolter ammo options for all squads.  It's simple, it's not overpowered, it's an existing rule(s) already in print, and it requires exactly zero changes to the existing model line.  Sisters are supposed to be armed with all the best stuff that the collection plate money of a thousand worlds can buy, so why wouldn't they have some of the rarer ammo?  That's what I'm sending in with my chocolate bribe.  :)

[BitsHammer]

And since we're talking about good penmanship, I typed my letter for neatness.

[MrFlutterPie]

I have braved the foul warp storms of the witch.  I met the unwashed mutant rabble and crushed them.  I endured in the face of apostate teaching and the corruption of the heretic and I have kept my faith. 

 

But the final challenge of possessing good penmanship is task to large for me to over come.  Go ahead of me my brothers and sisters and bring the Emperor's light with you as you traverse this last challenge.  I have failed and will only slow you down and harm our cause.  Now go and make haste for the final days are among us.  While I have failed you must continue to endure.

 

The Emperor protects...

[Servant of Dante]

 

 

Might email them....

A hand written letter will get much more attention than an email. A hand written letter, with good penmanship, and chocolate, will get yet more.

 

 

As far as homebrew rules go, I'd suggest special bolter ammo options for all squads. It's simple, it's not overpowered, it's an existing rule(s) already in print, and it requires exactly zero changes to the existing model line. Sisters are supposed to be armed with all the best stuff that the collection plate money of a thousand worlds can buy, so why wouldn't they have some of the rarer ammo? That's what I'm sending in with my chocolate bribe. :)

I don't actually know how I would go about sending a letter overseas. Whatever. I don't really intend to. I don't really think it would have much of an impact.

 

Yes, inevitable commenter, it is better than doing nothing.

[Teetengee]

On the topic of rules design and acts of faith. As cool as giant bonuses are that only happen every few games, they are bad for game by game balance. Games they don't go off you are paying points for the chance of it, and that means you are at a (likely slight) disadvantage. Games that it does go off you may absolutely wreck the enemy. That means that not a single one of your games will be balanced if you are actually written in a balanced way. I would suggest leaving that sort of stuff to fluff and making it a dependable/controllable aspect of the game.

[Servant of Dante]

On the topic of rules design and acts of faith. As cool as giant bonuses are that only happen every few games, they are bad for game by game balance. Games they don't go off you are paying points for the chance of it, and that means you are at a (likely slight) disadvantage. Games that it does go off you may absolutely wreck the enemy. That means that not a single one of your games will be balanced if you are actually written in a balanced way. I would suggest leaving that sort of stuff to fluff and making it a dependable/controllable aspect of the game.

I would like to point out that we are talking about simply having a smaller proportion of tests each game go off. You should have a relatively consistent number each game, even if it is lower than currently. Yes, there will be games that do not conform to the average, but meh.

[ValourousHeart]

There is a chance on the chaos boon table to get a Deamon Prince, greater Deamon or a free unit of deamons. It is a small chance but it is there.

 

Chaos players roll on that table with the hope every time that they roll on of the results that gives them one of those free units. Getting those once or more has a big impact on the game.

 

I'm not looking for our own version of the boon table, but I don't think it is out of line to expect our rules to have that level of impact with a similar frequency.