The future of Sisters

[BitsHammer]

Chaos Daemons can have a unit regenerate back to full and KDK can get free daemons.

 

And that's not even getting into Malefic psychic powers.

 

I won't claim my Acts are perfect but I mixed needing a 5+ (4+ for one Order) with needing to lose characters (if not the units they were in) to gain the more powerful options. Basically it's half KDK and half Malefic but with less boosting.

 

I'm thinking of keeping the same thing and changing it to an army wide AoF that can be used once per game not unlike the Ultramarines Chapter Tactic and with the later you use it the stronger each Act gets as the Martyrdom of great heroes inspires the Sisters further.

[Goonbandito]

There is a chance on the chaos boon table to get a Deamon Prince, greater Deamon or a free unit of deamons. It is a small chance but it is there.

 

Chaos players roll on that table with the hope every time that they roll on of the results that gives them one of those free units. Getting those once or more has a big impact on the game.

 

I'm not looking for our own version of the boon table, but I don't think it is out of line to expect our rules to have that level of impact with a similar frequency.

I think you'll find that the Boon Table for Chaos Space Marines, and the Warpstorm Table for Demons are not particularly liked, mainly because they're so random and unwieldy (especially the Boon Table).  I personally don't mind the Warp Storm table so much now, mainly because I've pretty much memorised it from doing it so often, and there are now ways to get back control over it with the new 'decurion' for Chaos Demons but there's definitely noticed a strong element of frustration with it amongst players.  There's a reason why you almost always see Kairos Fateweaver as the Warlord in competitive Demon Lists - his guaranteed Warlord Trait is the one that lets you re-roll the Warpstorm Table.

 

Any Faith system for Sisters needs to be one that is simple to use, easy to comprehend (especially for the opponent) and is very light on book keeping.  Having to roll d6's to determine effects, different models providing different levels of bonus and keeping track of effects on individual units gets far too messy imo. The KDK Blood Tithe is probably about the right level of balance, but even then that's only because I've got the datacards which make it easy to track your Blood Points (ie use the cards themselves as counters, and you've also got the rules printed right there on the card too). 

[CaptainHelion]

What about the Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus special rules? Doctrina Imperatives and Canticles of the Omnissiah might have some inspiration?

[Spacefrisian]

The Ultramarines with there battle doctrines isnt that far off as an option for acts of faith either, eg something special once per game. And it could be used with fancy cards that you pick before battle and than activate at any given time. Maybe 1 army wide act of fate card per HQ character? and a bonus when you bring certain formations?

[MrFlutterPie]

What about the Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus special rules? Doctrina Imperatives and Canticles of the Omnissiah might have some inspiration?

 

I was thinking about this as well. 

[Servant of Dante]

 

 

What about the Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus special rules? Doctrina Imperatives and Canticles of the Omnissiah might have some inspiration?

I was thinking about this as well.

This night be a good idea, I'm not sure how to execute it, but if AoFs are automaticity successful, they lose a good portion of their miraculous feel. I don't mind consistsncy, but it shouldn't be as simple as a SM player saying "I'm using assault doctrine this turn!"

[BitsHammer]

Making it heavilly limited and then making you roll for it isn't fun, even of it is thematically sound. Nothing like your Space Nuns not able to be faithful enough to manifest a minor miracle on multiple games due to luck to tick you off.

[Servant of Dante]

Making it heavilly limited and then making you roll for it isn't fun, even of it is thematically sound. Nothing like your Space Nuns not able to be faithful enough to manifest a minor miracle on multiple games due to luck to tick you off.

Which is why I'm not in favor of a single act per game, as is necessitates making it automatic.

[Teetengee]

I'll just quote once, even though I am responding to more.

 

-snip-

 

But on the other hand if it is your entire army gains armourbane, fleshbane, rend, shred, soulblaze, and strikedown to CC and Shooting for the rest of the game... that probably shouldn't happen every game... or at least it should not take effect on turn 1 or 2 of every game.

 

That, alongside the chaos boon table (and actually a bunch of chaos rules) are also all terrible rules. They are never balanced in a single game, they put you at a disadvantage most games (by making you less points efficient) and give you a massive balance wrecking bonus in the games they do go off.


The unit based boosts, or things like doctrines, canticles, blood points, those all are well designed (more or less) ways of doing that sort of thing. They vary in effect throughout the game and between games, but they are reasonably predictable and will have a similar impact each game. It's the same reason I think leadership needs a massive rework, as leadership tests these days are more the former terribly swingy thing then they are the equal playing field effect. (The reason they don't get more flak is that this is a random risk of massive problem which slightly reduces unit costs (and thus most games is an advantage) or is balanced by the glut of fearless/atsknf/etc...)

[MrFlutterPie]

Making it heavilly limited and then making you roll for it isn't fun, even of it is thematically sound. Nothing like your Space Nuns not able to be faithful enough to manifest a minor miracle on multiple games due to luck to tick you off.

 

Agreed.

 

Besides the Sisters are always MAX FAITH ALL THE TIME so why not have them go off easily? 

 

Because of the abstraction of the table top game there has to be some concessions.  As a gamer I would rather have the ability to trigger abilities when I what as it makes it easier to balance and more fun for me as I can count on my troops to preform.  The chaos boon table is a good example of poor game design even if it is fluffy.

 

The cool thing is the Cult mech guys get different bonus depending how many units you have on the table.  Sisters could be a reverse of that.  As you take more damage your powers get stronger ala martyrdom. 

[Teetengee]

That's perfect.

[Servant of Dante]

 

 

Making it heavilly limited and then making you roll for it isn't fun, even of it is thematically sound. Nothing like your Space Nuns not able to be faithful enough to manifest a minor miracle on multiple games due to luck to tick you off.

Agreed.

 

Besides the Sisters are always MAX FAITH ALL THE TIME so why not have them go off easily?

 

Because of the abstraction of the table top game there has to be some concessions. As a gamer I would rather have the ability to trigger abilities when I what as it makes it easier to balance and more fun for me as I can count on my troops to preform. The chaos boon table is a good example of poor game design even if it is fluffy.

 

The cool thing is the Cult mech guys get different bonus depending how many units you have on the table. Sisters could be a reverse of that. As you take more damage your powers get stronger ala martyrdom.

I think I could get behind this

[graysparrow]

As you take more damage your powers get stronger ala martyrdom. 

 

 

I love it!  :D

[BitsHammer]

I saw this last night on my way home and scribbled up something I stuck over in the update thread. Reverse Canticles to include some minor knicking of effects from the Cogheads (the leadership one and the strength buffing one).

[ValourousHeart]

If we want the faith and martyr mechanics tied to the unit then how about having the Superior give one bonus while she is alive and the martyr bonus when she is dead.

That way the only record keeping is checking to see if she is on the board or not.

I was thinking that the superior gives the re-roll on faith test while alive.

 

The simulacrum could do something similar too.

Roll 2 dice for faith, pick the highest, while it is on the table and a martyr bonus when she is removed.

Or a martyr bonus while she is on the table and hatred when she is removed.

Again the only record keeping is checking to see if the model is on the board or not.

 

**** oops, this was meant for another topic, but I guess it works here too.

[Servant of Dante]

EDIT: In short, I'm an idiot.

[Aqui]

I post this merely for completeness and to give a heads up. My intention is not to imply anything regarding the future of our beloved army, but the Dialogus and Blessed Banner Sister are no longer listed on the UK GW site.

 

I knew I should have gotten a Blessed Banner or two when I had the chance...

[dracpanzer]

Blessed banner has been missing for quite some time. I think the same for the dialogus.

[Aqui]

Blessed banner has been missing for quite some time. I think the same for the dialogus.

It was on the UK site as being no longer available, but the last day or so, the models have been taken off entirely

In any case, keep the faith, Sisters

[Isolia]

Same on the french site I was at my local store today and was checking them out for a fellow client who was asking about the dialogus when I noticed the out of production girls had been removed from the catalogue entirely. I better store up on melta-chicas before they retire too !

[Servant of Dante]

Blessed banner has been missing for quite some time. I think the same for the dialogus.

It was on the UK site as being no longer available, but the last day or so, the models have been taken off entirely

In any case, keep the faith, Sisters

I refer you to my Signature (the big, red, all caps line)

In any case, I will be sorely hurt to see (Emperor forbid) the whole Sisters range dissapear off the GW website, but as I have said multiple times before, that will not stop me from playing and growing my Sisters army, and NOT as counts as Space Marines. I would rather make my own errata to keep the current 'dex playable that use my Sisters as a counts as army. *shudder*

Not that there is anything inherently wrong with a counts as army.

[Spacefrisian]

Maybe we should raise a kickstarter to buy 51% in gw shares, and than force them to do Battle Sisters properly....and cash in when they start selling like hotcakes.

[Gobsmakked]

I've been picking up any Sister's models that come through my local game shop whenever I can in fear of the dwindling stock. Don't think i'll ever have enough to start an army but I've always found them to be such iconic sculpts.

 

Given that Imperial Knights, Skitarri, Adeptus Mechanicus, Harlequins, Heresy era Power Armour/Terminator Armour/Dreadnoughts, Wulfen, Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults have all been introduced or re-introduced into the game with plastic models I don't think its beyond all hope that Sisters might get new models.  GW seem to be on a roll with their latest runs of plastic sculpts, and I can't imagine that 'sleeves' would be any problem now if that is what was stopping them in the past.  And if I had to bet on anything, I'd say maybe a board game involving Battle Sisters and some other force like with Betrayal at Calth or Deathwatch: Overkill.

 

As knights,skitarri, harlequins and stealer cults are all concepts that originate from Jes Goodwin there is reason to be optimistic that we may see a plastic re-vamp of SoB as I remember him sculpting most of the original range. While GW pruning the fantasy line of the low sellers may be cause for concern, you could also see their removal as potentially opening up shelf space for more 40k/30k expansion.

 

Course that's the glass half full view. One would hope that it's not simply a case of "can't market them to our target demographic" that pushes them down in priority.

 

I spoke with Jes Goodwin in mid-June, and I briefly asked him about SoB. Not because I play them at all, but because they are a huge anomaly now given everything else that GW has been releasing of late (as listed above).  And also because I remembered rumours that they were supposedly done shortly after the 5th ed. DE codex dropped, except for the fact that GW couldn't quite get the filigree on their armour quite right.

 

Jes replied in the same vein - "given all that has been happening recently with small army and other specialty releases, if you had to guess what was going to happen to them, which way would you lean towards right now? Just give it some time, be patient, and it may not even be quite as long as many people think."  [not verbatim, but close enough]

 

The 5th ed. DE codex was released late-2010.  Considering that Jes' Skitarii design book I was flipping through that day had sketches for current units dating from 1993, I would say that time is rather relative at GW and even without the SoS factor from FW, I personally am quite positive that we will plastic SoB in the not-too-distant future.  2016 or 2017.

[Servant of Dante]

 

I've been picking up any Sister's models that come through my local game shop whenever I can in fear of the dwindling stock. Don't think i'll ever have enough to start an army but I've always found them to be such iconic sculpts.

 

Given that Imperial Knights, Skitarri, Adeptus Mechanicus, Harlequins, Heresy era Power Armour/Terminator Armour/Dreadnoughts, Wulfen, Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults have all been introduced or re-introduced into the game with plastic models I don't think its beyond all hope that Sisters might get new models.  GW seem to be on a roll with their latest runs of plastic sculpts, and I can't imagine that 'sleeves' would be any problem now if that is what was stopping them in the past.  And if I had to bet on anything, I'd say maybe a board game involving Battle Sisters and some other force like with Betrayal at Calth or Deathwatch: Overkill.

 

As knights,skitarri, harlequins and stealer cults are all concepts that originate from Jes Goodwin there is reason to be optimistic that we may see a plastic re-vamp of SoB as I remember him sculpting most of the original range. While GW pruning the fantasy line of the low sellers may be cause for concern, you could also see their removal as potentially opening up shelf space for more 40k/30k expansion.

 

Course that's the glass half full view. One would hope that it's not simply a case of "can't market them to our target demographic" that pushes them down in priority.

 

I spoke with Jes Goodwin in mid-June, and I briefly asked him about SoB. Not because I play them at all, but because they are a huge anomaly now given everything else that GW has been releasing of late (as listed above).  And also because I remembered rumours that they were supposedly done shortly after the 5th ed. DE codex dropped, except for the fact that GW couldn't quite get the filigree on their armour quite right.

 

Jes replied in the same vein - "given all that has been happening recently with small army and other specialty releases, if you had to guess what was going to happen to them, which way would you lean towards right now? Just give it some time, be patient, and it may not even be quite as long as many people think."  [not verbatim, but close enough]

 

The 5th ed. DE codex was released late-2010.  Considering that Jes' Skitarii design book I was flipping through that day had sketches for current units dating from 1993, I would say that time is rather relative at GW and even without the SoS factor from FW, I personally am quite positive that we will plastic SoB in the not-too-distant future.  2016 or 2017.

 

Well, that's lovely if it's true.

 

[Spacefrisian]

Iam finding it rather vague, lets light it up with fire...