Alternative Sisters

[BitsHammer]

Exactly. Leave the 21st century logic out of the 41st millennium already.

[Nomus Sardauk]

Exactly. Leave the 21st century logic out of the 41st millennium already.

Indeed, I mean, the game itself warns you specifically of this in the introduction:

"Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only War."

 

Side note, that original introductory segment is still the most epic, awe-inspiring, metal-as-hell piece of literature I've ever read in my entire life.

[Evil Eye]

For what it's worth, somewhere on my hard drive I have a part-written background writeup for a homebrew Sister Order made using 1d4chan's excellent Order creation tables whose defining feature/schtick is that they're "heretically compassionate"- so they'll attempt to convert/re-educate more or less anyone to the Imperial Creed that isn't actually an alien or an outright traitor (probably putting them through numerous horrific torture/brainwashing processes to the point where death would have been a nicer alternative of course). They're still very much "loyal" and believe in the Emperor's Light (they'll butcher Eldar and pump bolter shells into Chaos Space Marines/renegade Guard quite happily) but present them with a misguided tribe of inadvertent Chaos-worshippers and rather than going "Purge the heretic! *WOOMF*" they'll go "These poor, forsaken wretches, let us show them the true faith!" (which will probably end in the excruciating deaths of most of said tribe anyway through the "re-education" process, because grimdark).

 

On the one hand, they're pretty good at said brainwashing, and their charitable and kind nature (at least outwardly) makes them popular with the citizens of the Imperium. On the other hand, the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition are very suspicious of them, and it's only because of their location in a highly remote corner of the galaxy with precious little Ecclesiarchal presence that they haven't all been blammed yet. To make matters worse, the star system they inhabit has a mysterious, and highly ominous black gas giant in it, which some suspect may have daemonic influence. Really it's a matter of time before they get a nasty visit from the Inquisition.

 

TLDR: Sororitas equivalent to the Celestial Lions/Deluded, naive Order that's been out in the far reaches of the Halo Stars a bit too long.

 

I dunno, I thought it'd be pretty unique in comparison to the average "I really really don't like Heretics" fan-Order, whilst not actually toning down the Grimdark too much (and also allowing for a potential setup for fallen Sisters other than the oh-so-cliche SLAANESH HIJACK LOL). I am an awful, awful person.

[CaptainHelion]

Hereticaly compassionate lends itself very well to "I'm doing this for your own good" sorts of atrocities, which is, of course, entirely in keeping with the aesthetic of Sisters and 40k in general.

[Evil Eye]

Yeah, that's more or less exactly what I was going for- Well-intentioned extremists as it were. They're still lunatics, but a different kind of lunatic. I wanted to semi-deconstruct the common "Sororitas except NICE!" thing, so whilst they seem on first appearances to be far more tolerant, kind hearted and "nice" than the average Sister Order, they're still totally nuts- they're building orphanages in devastated warzones, but they're also building interrogation chambers just next door. Likewise, whilst they very rarely make use of Repentia, that's largely because they prefer to make use of...alternative methods of penitence (and also because many Sisters in the Order are former "converts" and are so terrified of the idea of going through the process of "redemption" again that they're extremely unlikely to commit even the most minor transgression- and if they do, they'll most likely keep it to themselves). The genuinely terrifying thing about them is that they honestly believe they are being benevolent and gracious, and cannot understand for the life of them why those they "redeem" seem to hate the process so much ("Surely they'd be grateful for being shown the Emperor's light? Why are they screaming so much?") nor why the Inquisition takes such a dim view on them.

[TheOneTrueZon]

Saint Celestine proxy:

 

 

 

 

 

[Naminé]

I think that's the first RH model I have no problems with. Looks good :)

[Evil Eye]

That is a fantastic sculpt but ARGH WINGS and OHGODSNO ZETTAI RYOUKI.

[Aqui]

She is certainly the least "Fan Service-y" of the range, and the more I look at the model, the more I'd get her just to paint and display in my flat - she'd never see a game.

 

In actual fact, I might get her to use as a statue of Celestine for scenery purposes - Sisters have little to none related scenery.

[Servant of Dante]

She is certainly the least "Fan Service-y" of the range, and the more I look at the model, the more I'd get her just to paint and display in my flat - she'd never see a game.

 

In actual fact, I might get her to use as a statue of Celestine for scenery purposes - Sisters have little to none related scenery.

Maybe as a statue, but I still stand firm in my stance that Celestine has no wings.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the official model doesn't have wings, so Celestine doesn't have wings.

 

Still a cool proxy.

 

I think that's the first RH model I have no problems with. Looks good

Agreed

[Aqui]

Maybe as a statue, but I still stand firm in my stance that Celestine has no wings.

I don't disagree with you, but to me that model is an "Allegorical" take on Celestine. Perhaps an eyewitness account by a civilian or Guardsman was overheard by a sculptor and the account was either misinterpreted or embellished to make her even more heroic or angelic by the addition of wings. For example:

 

The Guardsman was nervous. Command had ordered him to report to the Governors' quarters, for who knows what for. He was getting on a bit and older than the rest of the platoon by a decade. For a Guardsman to reach fifty was unheard of in his regiment, so it might be time, according to the powers that be that he has outlived his usefulness...

 

"Your honour," addressing a man so corpulent, so bloated with avarice it made him sick to his core, but he was this planet's leader, so was entitled to respect.

 

"Go on, trooper!" the man roared, "Tell the artisan what you saw! Simple minded ruffian! And be sure to take a decon shower! You smell awful!"

 

The trooper was annoyed by the last part. Shower? He hadn't seen one of those since his regiment had landed here, over eighteen months ago. He sighed and repeated what he saw...

 

The Sisters were terrible to behold, their fury was palpable and resolute. Everything in their way was either burnt to ash or was so badly riddled with bolter fire the corpses were unrecognisable as having once been human. A little further ahead, he could see the Canoness swing at a Chaos Cultist, a champion for all intents and purposes. He didn't last very long, his head rolling to join the others in the trench.

 

"Guardsman! What are you gawping at?!" She snarled, her anger defused when she saw the look on his face. "Trooper?" The Sister turned looking in the direction he was fixated upon and saw a being that seemed to shine, eye achingly bright, a cloak that spread behind her like wings...

 

"Wings?!" The Governor exclaimed. "She had actual wings?!"

 

"N-No, your honour. She looked like she had wings."

 

"Hmm, yes, well. I think that you're a little shell shocked." The Governor replied. "Artisan, depict this woman as the witness has stated."

 

"B-But, I never said...!" The look upon his superior officers face silenced the rest of the sentence.

 

"This woman was an Angel sent by Him on Earth. She should be depicted that way.

 

"You may leave us."

 

The trooper shook his head as he was ushered out by the regiments' Commissar and Sergeant. That wasn't what she was. She was sent by the God-Emperor, he was sure of that. But that was no Angel soaring above the battlefield. Her wrath was terrible, her ire unmeasurable. He was extremely glad that he hadn't been on the other side. More so after he had seen her tear enemy cultists apart like a piece of paper...

 

tl:dr - I think that the depiction of Celestine as having wings and being "angelic" is to make her more palatable to the Imperium at large. Having artwork or statues that show her tearing apart enemies like confetti might cause a lot of consternation to the unwashed masses... That and GW and its artists can't be consistent in her depiction...

 

(Forgive the short story, it came to me in a flash and I had to get it down whilst I had a chance. I just wished my BL submission was as easy to write as that...and I'm still waiting for BL to let me down gently...)

[Servant of Dante]

 

Maybe as a statue, but I still stand firm in my stance that Celestine has no wings.

I don't disagree with you, but to me that model is an "Allegorical" take on Celestine. Perhaps an eyewitness account by a civilian or Guardsman was overheard by a sculptor and the account was either misinterpreted or embellished to make her even more heroic or angelic by the addition of wings. For example:

 

The Guardsman was nervous. Command had ordered him to report to the Governors' quarters, for who knows what for. He was getting on a bit and older than the rest of the platoon by a decade. For a Guardsman to reach fifty was unheard of in his regiment, so it might be time, according to the powers that be that he has outlived his usefulness...

 

"Your honour," addressing a man so corpulent, so bloated with avarice it made him sick to his core, but he was this planet's leader, so was entitled to respect.

 

"Go on, trooper!" the man roared, "Tell the artisan what you saw! Simple minded ruffian! And be sure to take a decon shower! You smell awful!"

 

The trooper was annoyed by the last part. Shower? He hadn't seen one of those since his regiment had landed here, over eighteen months ago. He sighed and repeated what he saw...

 

The Sisters were terrible to behold, their fury was palpable and resolute. Everything in their way was either burnt to ash or was so badly riddled with bolter fire the corpses were unrecognisable as having once been human. A little further ahead, he could see the Canoness swing at a Chaos Cultist, a champion for all intents and purposes. He didn't last very long, his head rolling to join the others in the trench.

 

"Guardsman! What are you gawping at?!" She snarled, her anger defused when she saw the look on his face. "Trooper?" The Sister turned looking in the direction he was fixated upon and saw a being that seemed to shine, eye achingly bright, a cloak that spread behind her like wings...

 

"Wings?!" The Governor exclaimed. "She had actual wings?!"

 

"N-No, your honour. She looked like she had wings."

 

"Hmm, yes, well. I think that you're a little shell shocked." The Governor replied. "Artisan, depict this woman as the witness has stated."

 

"B-But, I never said...!" The look upon his superior officers face silenced the rest of the sentence.

 

"This woman was an Angel sent by Him on Earth. She should be depicted that way.

 

"You may leave us."

 

The trooper shook his head as he was ushered out by the regiments' Commissar and Sergeant. That wasn't what she was. She was sent by the God-Emperor, he was sure of that. But that was no Angel soaring above the battlefield. Her wrath was terrible, her ire unmeasurable. He was extremely glad that he hadn't been on the other side. More so after he had seen her tear enemy cultists apart like a piece of paper...

 

tl:dr - I think that the depiction of Celestine as having wings and being "angelic" is to make her more palatable to the Imperium at large. Having artwork or statues that show her tearing apart enemies like confetti might cause a lot of consternation to the unwashed masses... That and GW and its artists can't be consistent in her depiction...

 

(Forgive the short story, it came to me in a flash and I had to get it down whilst I had a chance. I just wished my BL submission was as easy to write as that...and I'm still waiting for BL to let me down gently...)

 

Exactly. It's fine as a statue, but I wouldn't use it as a proxy.

 

Awesome bit of writing there as well

[*Furyou Miko]

Why on earth would any Guardsman have a problem with an Angel that tears the enemies of mankind to shrebbons?

[Eddie Orlock]

Why on earth would any Guardsman have a problem with an Angel that tears the enemies of mankind to shrebbons?

'Cause she's been preached at for years by both her priests and commissars to abhor the mutant, witch, and alien? The Angel is unnatural and thus probably one of those from her in universe perspective. If she wasn't properly wary she'd be at serious risk of a summary execution for heresy.

[Blackarmor_redtruth]

She wouldn't have to proxie St. Celestine, just name her your own Living Saint of equal power (until we get options...) and there you go.

[Aqui]

She wouldn't have to proxie St. Celestine, just name her your own Living Saint of equal power (until we get options...) and there you go.

That's what I have done with mine

[*Furyou Miko]

 

Why on earth would any Guardsman have a problem with an Angel that tears the enemies of mankind to shrebbons?

'Cause she's been preached at for years by both her priests and commissars to abhor the mutant, witch, and alien? The Angel is unnatural and thus probably one of those from her in universe perspective. If she wasn't properly wary she'd be at serious risk of a summary execution for heresy.

 

If s/he's already accepted that the being is an Angel, though, why would they then have a problem with the angel dismembering things?

[Noeh]

 

Why on earth would any Guardsman have a problem with an Angel that tears the enemies of mankind to shrebbons?

'Cause she's been preached at for years by both her priests and commissars to abhor the mutant, witch, and alien? The Angel is unnatural and thus probably one of those from her in universe perspective. If she wasn't properly wary she'd be at serious risk of a summary execution for heresy.

 

But a Living Saint is the ultimate gift of the Emperor himself. It's actually not deemed heresy to worship the living saint instead of the Emperor because it's simply an extension of his will.

 

My saint is just my own creation as well. She's not Celestine, nor does she wield the same armor or sword. Plus she keeps coming back every fight, unlike some of the other saints.

[Eddie Orlock]

But a Living Saint is the ultimate gift of the Emperor himself. It's actually not deemed heresy to worship the living saint instead of the Emperor because it's simply an extension of his will.

I wish to first differentiate between 'absolute heresy' and 'perceived heresy'. For this I'll define the former as something between what the omniscient narrator would call heresy and what a reasonable conclave of Inquisitors would pronounce heretical. The latter would be somewhere between what the viewpoint character and his local representatives of authority would call heresy. These two terms are in no way guaranteed to completely overlap. Which, as an aside, is a wonderful source of narrative conflict between local authorities.

 

So, just because the angel is an extension of the Emperor's will (assuming this for the sake of the argument) doesn't mean that the guardsman's platoon commissar agrees. This also doesn't mean that said commissar is a heretic either. If you were a guardsman, how willing would you be to debate theology with your commissar? If my commissar said it was heresy, I wouldn't argue with her.

 

Of course, we could then turn and inquire why our commissar isn't up on things, but then why would she be. Her role in the Imperial war machine is the moral of her troopers, not chasing usually obscure bits of theology. Maybe the saint is too new to have percolated out that far to where they've been campaigning. Demons and false lights are common enough and Tzeench is tricky. The same arguments that apply to her shielding her subordinates would also apply to her superiors shielding her.

 

The argument's a bit epistemological, how would the guardsmen know to trust an authority that vouches for the angel in the presence of one to her perception equally informed that condemns it? We both know the angel's a 'good' character, but how do the characters in the setting know this?

 

In the grim darkness of the far future it's usually safer to trust in suspicion and adhere to your standing traditions.

[Noeh]

 

But a Living Saint is the ultimate gift of the Emperor himself. It's actually not deemed heresy to worship the living saint instead of the Emperor because it's simply an extension of his will.

I wish to first differentiate between 'absolute heresy' and 'perceived heresy'. For this I'll define the former as something between what the omniscient narrator would call heresy and what a reasonable conclave of Inquisitors would pronounce heretical. The latter would be somewhere between what the viewpoint character and his local representatives of authority would call heresy. These two terms are in no way guaranteed to completely overlap. Which, as an aside, is a wonderful source of narrative conflict between local authorities.

 

So, just because the angel is an extension of the Emperor's will (assuming this for the sake of the argument) doesn't mean that the guardsman's platoon commissar agrees. This also doesn't mean that said commissar is a heretic either. If you were a guardsman, how willing would you be to debate theology with your commissar? If my commissar said it was heresy, I wouldn't argue with her.

 

Of course, we could then turn and inquire why our commissar isn't up on things, but then why would she be. Her role in the Imperial war machine is the moral of her troopers, not chasing usually obscure bits of theology. Maybe the saint is too new to have percolated out that far to where they've been campaigning. Demons and false lights are common enough and Tzeench is tricky. The same arguments that apply to her shielding her subordinates would also apply to her superiors shielding her.

 

The argument's a bit epistemological, how would the guardsmen know to trust an authority that vouches for the angel in the presence of one to her perception equally informed that condemns it? We both know the angel's a 'good' character, but how do the characters in the setting know this?

 

In the grim darkness of the far future it's usually safer to trust in suspicion and adhere to your standing traditions.

I more meant that the ecchlisiarchy wouldn't have any problem with it. Imperial guard are a whole different situation. But they also would likely refer to the ecchlisiarchy before trying anything against a planet with a saint.

[grimsanity]

I'm starting a sisters army and looking for model alternatives. I'm currently doing the dreamforge conversion. but i can't seem to find alternatives for repentia(no RH or GW) any ideas would be appreciated. Also looking for seraphim alternatives, i like the look for the RH ones from this posts but does anyone have other options? again any help would be great. 

[*Furyou Miko]

You could look at the Shadowforge Sci Fi Marines for converting into Repentia - they look like female truescale catachans.

[grimsanity]

thank you furyou i'll look into them. Anymore anyone can recommend?

[Wulf Vengis]

Grishnak.

 

I don't have a link for them but I saw one on here or some other site recently.

[grimsanity]

those are nice wulf thank you but i'm really only looking for repentia and  seraphim