Solar Auxilia Tactica

[Hesh Kadesh]

Ah yes.

 

So hit on 3+, but at I1 with a t3 4+ sv chassis. Against a 10 man tac squad there is one shooting phase, 20 shots, 12-13 hits, 8-9 wounds, 4-5 dead. This is rapid firing bolters. Bolters are naff. overwatch;it is 20 snap shots; 3-4 hits, 2-3 wounds, maybe 1-2 casualties, bring 5-8 on a good day.

 

11 attacks, hitting on 4's, wounding on 3's is another 1-2 dead.

 

On a very good day, a Tactical Squad can kill a single power axe squad, or even using the lower averages, even killing 6.

 

In return? The Solar Auxilia kill only Tactical Marines.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Ah yes.

 

So hit on 3+, but at I1 with a t3 4+ sv chassis. Against a 10 man tac squad there is one shooting phase, 20 shots, 12-13 hits, 8-9 wounds, 4-5 dead. This is rapid firing bolters. Bolters are naff. overwatch;it is 20 snap shots; 3-4 hits, 2-3 wounds, maybe 1-2 casualties, bring 5-8 on a good day.

 

11 attacks, hitting on 4's, wounding on 3's is another 1-2 dead.

 

On a very good day, a Tactical Squad can kill a single power axe squad, or even using the lower averages, even killing 6.

 

In return? The Solar Auxilia kill only Tactical Marines.

 

Why are you axes disembarked and getting shot by bolters?

 

Tacticals can't shoot much while they're being reduced to molten slush by my Malcador either.

 

Also factor in Household Retinue get Preferred Enemy - Infantry, with WS5, moving through cover that are unchargeable due to the Lord Marshal's archeotech gear. It is potent, you just need to choose the target and keep them safe. 

Edited November 2, 2015 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[Slips]

Because theyre not in an assault vehicle and thus cannot charge.

 

:p

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Because theyre not in an assault vehicle and thus cannot charge.

 

 

Yah but they're dismounting to engage CC units from a flank, using the Dracosian to shield the deployment. I'm not using them to charge things that, you know, can fight back. 

 

Or that's the plan....

[Slips]

Of your up against marines, everything can fight back :p

[Hesh Kadesh]

 

Because theyre not in an assault vehicle and thus cannot charge.

 

 

Yah but they're dismounting to engage CC units from a flank, using the Dracosian to shield the deployment. I'm not using them to charge things that, you know, can fight back. 

 

Or that's the plan....

 

How do they fight back? You're spending all those points on a denial unit; and one that's not even that tough.

 

Lord Marshal, Master-crafted Paragon Blade, Digital Lasers, Grav-Wave Generator, Cyber Familiar, Iron Halo, Artificer Armour, Void Shield Harness, Void Master (or Uncanny Survivor, or Shattering Bombardment) = 180pts

Household Retinue Veletaris Storm Section; Power Fist, Nuncio Vox, Shroud Bombs, 9 Power Axes = 210pts

Dracosan Armoured Transport = 135pts

 

This here is 525pts. On paper? Unit looks okay. It has Defensive Grenades and reduce enemy charge distances by -d3, with 36 Weapon Skill 5 Preferred Enemy S4 AP2 Attacks. Vehicle baseline is 5HP AV13 shell that can strip hull points from medium or light vehicles, and in defence, the unit has an AV12 Void Shield. 

 

Limitations? 

 

It is slow. Unit has Move Through Cover, and can Run. Its shooting isn't really worth anything, so it's always going to be running. Even so, it's not getting into an assault earlier than turn 3, maybe turn 4. It is a 4+ Save unit with on a T3 chassis. Any unit that cannot shoot at another target will likely shoot at them. Mainly because it's expensive (390pts, after the Void Shield is dropped, basically means that each casualty is killing around 30points per wound. The most that can be said is that Anti MEQ firepower might be slightly overkill on normal Solar Auxilia; but when you're paying 30pts/model, that odd plinked wound from a tactical squad whizzing around in a Rhino shooting out of the top hatch trying to stay unintrusive can be pretty hurtful.

 

Eh, look at a Destroyer unit. They don't need to be especially powerful combat legions, but units of World Eaters, Sons of Horus and Night Lords are especially lethal. Move, Gunslinger, Rad Grenades with Hammer of Wrath and 4 WS4 Attacks each (or for Night Lords, 3, but wounding on a 2+), and a unit can be completely erased with ease. To kill a unit, 4+ Save, and wounding on a 3+ means that a 10 man unit gets 30 successful hits are needed.

 

And it's hardly going to be able to stand up against a Typhon or similar.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

 

 

Because theyre not in an assault vehicle and thus cannot charge.

 

 

Yah but they're dismounting to engage CC units from a flank, using the Dracosian to shield the deployment. I'm not using them to charge things that, you know, can fight back. 

 

Or that's the plan....

 

How do they fight back? You're spending all those points on a denial unit; and one that's not even that tough.

 

Lord Marshal, Master-crafted Paragon Blade, Digital Lasers, Grav-Wave Generator, Cyber Familiar, Iron Halo, Artificer Armour, Void Shield Harness, Void Master (or Uncanny Survivor, or Shattering Bombardment) = 180pts

Household Retinue Veletaris Storm Section; Power Fist, Nuncio Vox, Shroud Bombs, 9 Power Axes = 210pts

Dracosan Armoured Transport = 135pts

 

This here is 525pts. On paper? Unit looks okay. It has Defensive Grenades and reduce enemy charge distances by -d3, with 36 Weapon Skill 5 Preferred Enemy S4 AP2 Attacks. Vehicle baseline is 5HP AV13 shell that can strip hull points from medium or light vehicles, and in defence, the unit has an AV12 Void Shield. 

 

Limitations? 

 

It is slow. Unit has Move Through Cover, and can Run. Its shooting isn't really worth anything, so it's always going to be running. Even so, it's not getting into an assault earlier than turn 3, maybe turn 4. It is a 4+ Save unit with on a T3 chassis. Any unit that cannot shoot at another target will likely shoot at them. Mainly because it's expensive (390pts, after the Void Shield is dropped, basically means that each casualty is killing around 30points per wound. The most that can be said is that Anti MEQ firepower might be slightly overkill on normal Solar Auxilia; but when you're paying 30pts/model, that odd plinked wound from a tactical squad whizzing around in a Rhino shooting out of the top hatch trying to stay unintrusive can be pretty hurtful.

 

Eh, look at a Destroyer unit. They don't need to be especially powerful combat legions, but units of World Eaters, Sons of Horus and Night Lords are especially lethal. Move, Gunslinger, Rad Grenades with Hammer of Wrath and 4 WS4 Attacks each (or for Night Lords, 3, but wounding on a 2+), and a unit can be completely erased with ease. To kill a unit, 4+ Save, and wounding on a 3+ means that a 10 man unit gets 30 successful hits are needed.

 

And it's hardly going to be able to stand up against a Typhon or similar.

 

 

So a unit being squishy renders it worthless? They can't survive a Typhon? Neither can that Destroyer squad, so by your logic I can safely run axes as nobody should bother running anything that can't survive a Typhon?

 

it's all relative, if you can get a charge off they will be amusingly effective. They're squishy, so are a lot of melee-specific Legion units. Doesn't make them any less useful. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

To get off a charge they have to weather a shooting phase (or get out on the wrong side of the vehicle and pray that they are able to make the assault happen despite having lost roughly 8" of potential reach) and an overwatch, and strike last.

 

A single 10 man tactical squad killed between 6 and 10, so lets average 8 as the midpoint. You have spent 535pts to get 11-12 S4 Preferred enemy attacks, which is still only killing Tactical Marines.

 

Compare to say Eidolon+ Palatine Blade (9 strong 3 Power Spears) squad out of a Dreadclaw; 533pts.

 

Unit comes down first turn assaults second turn, as opposed to third or fourth turnOverwatch laspistols bleh . Unit makes 5 S8 I5 AP1 attacks hitting on 3s. Call it 2-3 dead. 12 attacks hitting on 3s because Eidolon has messed up the ranks and lower Initiative Step. 8 hits, wounding on 2's; 6-7 dead. 24 attacks hittinf on 3's, wounding on 3's, rending on 6's; 4 dead no.save, 10 wounds, 5 unsaved.

 

 

That is 18-19 wounds caused.

 

Edit: forgot shroud bombs. Reduce damage by 25%, so around 13-14 wounds.

[ThatOneMarshal]

Wait a second, the axes are striking at intiative 1, meaning after your average tactical squad. However, your SA were not going to be striking before that tactical squad anyways, due to intiative 3. I was striking last anyways, at leat I can now hit back with AP 2 now. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

Doesn't really make them a good assault squad though. And yes, you can hit back at ap2, the trick is surviving that long.

[Slips]

What they are good for is as a DISTRACTION CARNIFEX unit that sits around near your Nasty Shooty Elements to dissuade Charges....but its an expensive one so not really worth it.

 

Or, If you really want them to get the Charge, shove them into a Storm Lord since its Open Topped while also having a shooty unit inside to go pew pew with alongside the Vulcan Mega Bolter.

 

...But then you're just asking for the thing to get nuked from Orbit at that point.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Khornestar]

What they are good for is as a DISTRACTION CARNIFEX unit that sits around near your Nasty Shooty Elements to dissuade Charges....but its an expensive one so not really worth it.

 

Or, If you really want them to get the Charge, shove them into a Storm Lord since its Open Topped while also having a shooty unit inside to go pew pew with alongside the Vulcan Mega Bolter.

 

...But then you're just asking for the thing to get nuked from Orbit at that point.

That brings up a good point for me: what are some effective ways of using a Stormlord?

 

It seems as if one obvious way is to sit back and unleash all da dakka, since sitting still hilariously lets you shoot 30 marine-popping shots. But then, the transport capacity and ability to shoot from inside feels sorta wasted at long range.

 

I've seen Enginseer + grenade launcher automata suggested, as well as choomtroopers, but both have a relatively short range on their guns. And of course, the mad firemen have only this option for assaulting after disembarking.

 

Then it seems moving up a bit with passengers is the best way to go, other than just turtling them up, but they might as well all be shooting their lasguns behind an ADL at that point. If the big boy is moving then he'll need some buddies to come along for the ride. Fast Russ variants seem ideal, but for sure some demolisher Dracosans will be chugging along, too.

 

I dunno, just some thoughts having never used any of these units.

 

What's worked effectively for yous guys?

[Stofficus]

I keep humming and hawing about adding the Enginseer + Grenade launcher combo to my army. Haywire is, quite simply, the sexiest rule in 40k as far as I'm concerned (behind Deflagrate, of course). Just a pair of haywire grenade launchers from my command section have been invaluable, but a whole squad? Watch out Spartans, I'm coming for you! 

The repair utility is nice, but ultimately not critical. I find either my vehicles are blown up in one round, or the enemy ignores them (In the last 3 games, no one even tried to shoot my ceramite-Baneblade), but for an inexpensive vehicle remover? Lovely. Fragile, of course, like all other SA infantry options, but 24'' haywire will certainly gets its use if in a well-placed position. if nothing else, they'll massively dissuade any aggressive vehicle maneuvers. Backing up a superheavy, regardless of type, you've basically got complete area denial within range of their guns. 

I'm currently wondering, however, if I should pair up some Malcadors with my Baneblade and just superheavy it up. I've found in every game I play against Legions, all my infantry die by the end of the game, but my armour endures, so do I either add more armour (currently use 1 baneblade, LR Incinerator/Executioner combo and either a pair of battle tanks or outflanking exterminators, or no extra Russes and Sigismund and some Templar Bretheren in a Land Raider) to eliminate those units which wipe my infantry, or would I be better off going with Dracosans? 

I'm not a huge fan of the model's look, and I'm a sucker for getting FNP on whatever I can, so losing the Medicae would hurt my soul (and how the hell do I transport 5 of the things?), but demolisher cannon transports which are nigh-unkillable from the front has its appeal, especially when opposing Raven Guard, Death Guard, Ultramarines, Iron Warriors, Tyranids, Tau and Necrons seem to revel in chewing up my footsloggers. 

 

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I keep humming and hawing about adding the Enginseer + Grenade launcher combo to my army. Haywire is, quite simply, the sexiest rule in 40k as far as I'm concerned (behind Deflagrate, of course). Just a pair of haywire grenade launchers from my command section have been invaluable, but a whole squad? Watch out Spartans, I'm coming for you! 

 

The repair utility is nice, but ultimately not critical. I find either my vehicles are blown up in one round, or the enemy ignores them (In the last 3 games, no one even tried to shoot my ceramite-Baneblade), but for an inexpensive vehicle remover? Lovely. Fragile, of course, like all other SA infantry options, but 24'' haywire will certainly gets its use if in a well-placed position. if nothing else, they'll massively dissuade any aggressive vehicle maneuvers. Backing up a superheavy, regardless of type, you've basically got complete area denial within range of their guns. 

 

I'm currently wondering, however, if I should pair up some Malcadors with my Baneblade and just superheavy it up. I've found in every game I play against Legions, all my infantry die by the end of the game, but my armour endures, so do I either add more armour (currently use 1 baneblade, LR Incinerator/Executioner combo and either a pair of battle tanks or outflanking exterminators, or no extra Russes and Sigismund and some Templar Bretheren in a Land Raider) to eliminate those units which wipe my infantry, or would I be better off going with Dracosans? 

 

I'm not a huge fan of the model's look, and I'm a sucker for getting FNP on whatever I can, so losing the Medicae would hurt my soul (and how the hell do I transport 5 of the things?), but demolisher cannon transports which are nigh-unkillable from the front has its appeal, especially when opposing Raven Guard, Death Guard, Ultramarines, Iron Warriors, Tyranids, Tau and Necrons seem to revel in chewing up my footsloggers. 

 

 

 

I think a list centered around a superheavy baneblade chassis, supported by Malcs and Demolisher Dracs would be very effective. For the points, I think most Legion lists would able to nuke a single high priority target - not 3, certainly not ones backuped up by the Demolisher Dracs.

[Khornestar]

When you run a Lord Marshal, which WL trait do you guys like to use?

 

I see the turn 1 shrouding buff is popular, for obvious reasons.

 

I'm more looking forward to the strategic trait that lets you infiltrate warlord + 3 non-vehicle units. Current plan is to fling mobs of zealot/rending militia cultists ahead of my auxilia vehicles. So many bodies.

[Stofficus]

When you run a Lord Marshal, which WL trait do you guys like to use?

 

I see the turn 1 shrouding buff is popular, for obvious reasons.

 

I'm more looking forward to the strategic trait that lets you infiltrate warlord + 3 non-vehicle units. Current plan is to fling mobs of zealot/rending militia cultists ahead of my auxilia vehicles. So many bodies.

 

Eternal Warrior, believe it or not. 

 

My local group is super power-gameye, so I end up facing off against T10 GUOs, Wolfstar, Wraithknights and so on a pretty regular basis. That little T3 guy with a potentially Instant Death weapon at AP2 is absolutely hilarious with EW. 

 

2 GUOs, Typhus, several Ork warbosses, 3 Hive Tyrants an a pair of Exocrines are his ridiculous kill tally so far. 

[Khornestar]

Hah! That didn't even cross my mind. Awesome.

[Slips]

"I see your Toughness 10, Oh Great Daemon of the Abyss who was old when our world Was Young, he who had wrought destruction on a galactic scale, decimator of species, enslaver of minds and Men and Raise you this Feeble S4 Poke to the shin! EN GARDE!"

 

*poke*

 

*Daemon Collapses in on himself*

 

...Yup. I can see it now :>

[Stofficus]

"I see your Toughness 10, Oh Great Daemon of the Abyss who was old when our world Was Young, he who had wrought destruction on a galactic scale, decimator of species, enslaver of minds and Men and Raise you this Feeble S4 Poke to the shin! EN GARDE!"

 

*poke*

 

*Daemon Collapses in on himself*

 

...Yup. I can see it now :>

 

The master of said Daemon of the Abyss responded with, "Well, isn't he cheeky" 

 

They always want to call him cheesy, but can't bring it to themselves to describe a T3 model with a S4 sword at 180 points cheesy, even as he slays the most powerful being in all creation. 

 

Draigo? Pfft, amateur, in 30k his ilk merely commanded Army regiments. 

[Larkyn]

So, as awesome as veletari are, I can't seem to find justification to take them over rifle squads.

 

Pros of Veletaris squads:

-Volkite CHOOM CHOOM!

-+1 BS

-+1 Ld

-Reinforced void armor

-Shroud bombs

-Move Through Cover

-Can upgrade to power axes

-Has laspistol and close combat weapon base

-Can upgrade through Lord Marshal to be Household guard

-Can take a Aquila lander (I think this is a pro?)

-Can take advantage of Dracosans with the sweet, tasty demolisher cannon.

 

Cons:

-For about the same points cost of a rifles squad, you get 10 less guys.

-Can upgrade to rotor cannons

 

 

It should be obvious that the Veletaris squads win out, but...I dunno. I just can't not take the meatier rifle squads. The versitility of the lasrifles, especially with the collimaters and blast-chargers is really good, plus the extra bodies. In my experience of playing Imperial Guard, I've always found that quantity is preferred over quality. Sure that veteran squad with carapace armour and 3 plasmas will do you good, but they cost about as much as almost 3 regular squads.

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but rifles all the way...

[Terminus]

If you're not taking advantage of the Demolisher Dracosans, you're better off with more boots on the ground.

[Flint13]

^Thats my exact thinking as well.

 

The Veletaris Storm squads are paired perfectly with the demolisher dracosans. A demolisher template and 20 Volkite shots aren't quite as numerous as all the lasguns, but they're good for a different type of target and a more aggressive play style.

[caladancid]

I haven't seen much discussion about Valdors. Does anyone run them? I am thinking of getting one to make a centerpiece for a SA allied detachment. In general I would just use a Sicaran Venator in a primary detachment, but I think the Valdor has some value being a super-heavy as well as not taking a heavy slot in the primary detachment (obv it still takes up the allied slot).

[Ishagu]

I actually think this army can be extremely powerful.

 

You can Spam Malcadors as heavy supports, and bring an additional Lord of War for an army with 4 Super Heavies at 2k points, potentially. Not to mention lots of cheap but effective infantry.

The standard Lasrifle Squad is super efficient at 100 points, especially with their 30" range weapons!

 

I'll be taking these guys as allies to my Ultramarines :-D

[Monkeychunks]

So, as awesome as veletari are, I can't seem to find justification to take them over rifle squads.

 

Running the numbers on them, they consistently put out more damage than the Rifles in just about every scenario. A squad of 10 Volkites will deal about 50% more pain than the equivalent 20 Lasrifles. Even when running Blast Chargers, the Volkites win out. The numbers become even more skewed when considering the Household Guard.

 

A unit of 20 Lasrifles can expect 2.2 dead Marines per turn, or 2.8 when blasting. In comparison, 10 Volkites will burn out 3.6, or 5.0 as Household. Obviously you haven't got the staying power of 20 warm bodies, but for sheer punch they come out miles ahead.

I'd say the comparison is very easy to make; if you want them on foot, Lasrifles. Stacked benefits from Medicae on top of literally double the wounds, with the range to reach out past Bolters. If you want them mobile, Veletarii get you both the close-ranged punching power alongside a supporting Demolisher Cannon. Don't take half-measures by keeping the Dracosan undergunned with Lasrifles, or the Aegis manned with 18" guns.

 

The models being so much cheaper also helps,,,