Flint13 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 It's been awhile since I paged through IA:Apocalypse. Is the Marcharius Vulcan substantially cheaper than the Stormlord? It has the same double fire if stationary rule, so I wonder if it would be a decent budget version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I hate to break your TL Vanquisher cannon bubble, but Macharius tanks weren't around in 30k, the first came off production lines in 850.M41 (according to the Wiki) Unless they were added to the Red Books, but I'm pretty sure SA don't get them :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) ^ There's a concession in Massacre that allows for IA vehicles to be taken. "In order to represent this diversity when it comes to Super-heavy vehicles and Flyers, it is perfectly acceptable to use specific Imperial Super-heavy vehicles and Flyer units from Forge World's wider Imperial Armour range such as Imperial Armour; Apocalypse or Imperial Armour Aeronautica, which do not already have an era-specific counterpart listed in a Horus Heresy supplement". Check out this resource Hesh put together: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302242-resource-heresy-era-lords-of-war/?p=3925306 Edited January 15, 2016 by Flint13 God-Potato of Mankind and AlexisSonOfDorn 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH I love and hate you, I don't need to buy more models you fiend :( How is the Macharius in 40k then? One of the best things about the 30k Malcador is it's not limited by the terrible engine rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I love and hate you Yeah... I get that a lot. How is the Macharius in 40k then? One of the best things about the 30k Malcador is it's not limited by the terrible engine rules. It's not bad. It's literally a budget Baneblade, which fits the fluff perfectly. Twin-linked battle cannon is a little underwhelming though. The Vanquisher version is pretty awesome. It's essentially a super-heavy version of the Russ, but most importantly it's Vanquisher cannon is twin-linked! The Omega is the plasma cannon version. It's not terrible. The issue is that if you attempt to use the str9ap2 7" blast, you can suffer a super "Gets Hot!" that exes d3 hull points. Maybe worthwhile if it ignored cover, but I'm not a huge fan as it stands. The Vulcan version is pretty darn cool. It has the "All Power to the Weapons!" rule to fire the mega-bolter twice if you don't move. I think this one is my favorite, even with it's mediocre BS. It's decently inexpensive for getting a Titan grade weapon on the field, especially when it utilizes it better than the scout titan it came from :D Brother Sutek 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH I love and hate you, I don't need to buy more models you fiend :( How is the Macharius in 40k then? One of the best things about the 30k Malcador is it's not limited by the terrible engine rules. Because....well because. ;) yay circular logic! Honestly, it can just represent one of the myriad tank patterns a SA unit adopted. BUT DOUBLE VANQUISHER SMALL BLAST TEMPLATES MUTHATRUKKA!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 How many pointerinos is a MachVanq? Cos running 2x them plus Malcadors would be a headache for anyone :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) How many pointerinos is a MachVanq? Cos running 2x them plus Malcadors would be a headache for anyone :D Idk if you can run more than 1, but I think they have so few hull points that I think you might be able to take 2. Edit: you might be better off running LR Vanquishers and taking the Vulcan cannon variant to deal with AdMech and marines :) Edit part 2: Double firing the Vulcan cannon will net you about 1.5 dead Castellax a turn after ++ saves. It's also pretty good for nuking big rapier teams. Edited January 15, 2016 by depthcharge12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Oh holy crap don't start pointing out I can have a Macharius tank! I love the look of them especially the Vulcan version ... I have a thing for mini guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audemus Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 How many pointerinos is a MachVanq? Cos running 2x them plus Malcadors would be a headache for anyone Idk if you can run more than 1, but I think they have so few hull points that I think you might be able to take 2. Edit: you might be better off running LR Vanquishers and taking the Vulcan cannon variant to deal with AdMech and marines Edit part 2: Double firing the Vulcan cannon will net you about 1.5 dead Castellax a turn after ++ saves. It's also pretty good for nuking big rapier teams. You can run 3 Malcadors if you so desire, I'm not saying you should or shouldn't but keep in mind the Strategos cannot use his Cognis Signum on the Malcadors, as they are Super Heavies regardless of not being Lords of War and as such the rules state it cannot be used on them. I will say this though: please do your army a favor and consider them Lords of War in your head so that you do not forget that when they pop a super nova of catastrophic proportions has a good chance of wiping your command squad hunkered down behind a building from the face of the earth. Yeah...that was not good times. In other news, I just found this thread for some bizarre reason it evaded me, but the 1905th is trucking along. I'm painting the Stormhammer today and if I repaint my two Imperial Knight Crusaders (as they are being added to the new red book for Questoris) I'll be at close to 3500 Solar Auxilia and 1500 Questoris Knights in an Allied Detachment. I've reached the 5K mark it looks like, just need to order an Arvus Shuttle with my free shipping coupon for my command squad and some tarantulas to try the honeypot tactic I've been discussing with Flint. Rough explanation: Full out Dracosan into buildings in the middle of the map, deploy the Veletaris from inside, deep strike the Tarantulas and Arvus off the Nuncio Vox and deploy the Household Retinue of Axe wielding madmen and my Lord Marshal of Insta-slay (eternal warrior, displacer matrix, artificers, combat harness (instant 6's), familiar (re-roll failed toughness checks from harness), paragon blade among other things) and crash him into the whatever gargantuan creatures or characters happen to be wandering around...flinging shroud bombs willy nilly to prevent a pre-emptive charge on his team. Meanwhile the Dracosan, Veletaris, and Tarantulas provide cover fire around the drop zone as the Arvus goes into "I fly fast, have twin-linked lascannons, and have served my purpose...suicidal attack runs incoming" mode. http://i.imgur.com/L2mvewB.png Brother Sutek 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 How many points does a Macharius run and what is the AV and HPs? Not asking for a full breakdown as the rest can be figured out, but it's just good to know for points crunching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) For reference, they're on Pgs 32-35 of the most recent edition of Forge World's IA:Apocalypse. They're all 6HP, AV 14/13/12 and range in price from 65-81 meltabombs for the Standard Macharius Heavy to the Vulcan, respectively. Edited January 16, 2016 by Flint13 depthcharge12 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid_O Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) The basic macharius is ~325, 14/13/12, 6 hp. They range up to ~400 pts depending on variant Edit: ninja'd Edited January 17, 2016 by Liquid_O depthcharge12 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 For reference, they're on Pgs 32-35 of the most recent edition of Forge World's IA:Apocalypse. They're all 6HP, AV 14/13/12 and range in price from 65-81 meltabombs for the Standard Macharius Heavy to the Vulcan, respectively. Awesome, I didn't want to be that guy, but it'd seem silly to buy a book just to find one unit ^_^ Though the Vulcan pattern does seem to be a bit lackluster compared to say a Castigator knight at that points level - I was expecting them to run about 300 points as a "Chinese knock off baneblade." Analysis: Castigator - 25 points cheaper, ion shield, cc attacks with sweep, S7 bolt cannon at BS4 as opposed to S6 at BS3 of the Vulcan Macharius Vulcan - Double fire with the cannon (does it need to be the same unit? I think the rules were fuzzy), lower profile, AV14 front, more shooty weapons - but not too impressive, mostly AP4 or worse. Flint13 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) ^That would technically be a Lucian knock-off Baneblade. Comparing them to a Knight probably isn't going to be the most flattering especially since it comes stock with heavy stubbers in the hull and sponsons. The Vulcan's slight advantage of heavier front armor and more average mid-strength AP3 hits is way overcompensated for by the Knight's speed and mobility, ion shield and close combat ability. A Castigator that makes in into combat will splat almost any infantry unit that doesn't kill it first. At the Macharius Vulcan's price, I'd really just want to pay the 60-ish extra points and get a Storm Lord, which comes with a better stock weapon loadout, 50% more hull points and counts as an assault vehicle for a transport capacity of 40. The Vulcan mega bolter rules (and All Power to the Weapons! in the Storm Lord's case) specifically mention that if stationary, the Vulcan bolter can fire twice, at the same target or different ones. Edited January 16, 2016 by Flint13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 The Macharius cannot take Autocannons. That is a Malcador. Which is rather awesome when taken stock, but still expensive. Fast SuperHeavy 6HP 13/13/12 Battlecannon/TL and 3 Autocannons/Multilasers. Still, they are 235pts, when they are effectively just expensive Russes, until you put on a demo cannon, at 265, which is when they start looking less attractive imho, and a pair of russ might be better, and using otherwise untouched FA slots. And at 405pts, a Machvulcan is more expensive than a Typhon, and is more a legacy of FW's old 'it kills MEQ's, charge double' policy. Flint13 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 The Macharius cannot take Autocannons. That is a Malcador. Which is rather awesome when taken stock, but still expensive. Fast SuperHeavy 6HP 13/13/12 Battlecannon/TL and 3 Autocannons/Multilasers. Still, they are 235pts I dunno, I think its best to just go ahead and think of them as a 245pt model with the Siege armor ^_^ when they are effectively just expensive Russes, until you put on a demo cannon, at 265, which is when they start looking less attractive imho, and a pair of russ might be better, and using otherwise untouched FA slots. That's actually a really good point. Mine are typically just over 300 with the siege armor, flare shield and demo cannon. The Aux just don't have a lot to go in those FA slots do they? I guess its best to think of the Malc like a heavier heavy Russ. The only thing it really wins out on is that flare shield. And at 405pts, a Machvulcan is more expensive than a Typhon, and is more a legacy of FW's old 'it kills MEQ's, charge double' policy. Truth. Hesh Kadesh and Khornestar 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 A duo of neat vanquishers for a Loch Ness monster wouldn't go amiss in the fast slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stofficus Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 As someone who has used a Macharius for a long, long time with his Death Korps I can state, definitively, the base Macharius is the worst superheavy in 40k, and to add insult to injury, it's still fairly points heavy. The Vanquisher variant is marginally better for a points increase, leaving it, still, as a dubious investment with a single BS3 TL vanquisher shot for well over 300 points. The Vulcan is a potent weapon, but as has been said elsewhere, is only marginally cheaper than the otherwise superior in all ways Stormlord. They're really sexy models, and make perfect thematic sense in 40k, but the rules have been, and no doubt will continue to be hot garbage. Scratch that, ice cold, wet, stinky garbage. On another, more positive note, the idea of three LR Vanquishers with a tank commander camping out with a Command Section for BS4, and BS5 on the commander is absolutely delightful, and as soon as I have liquid cash, and have painted my backlog I will enthusiastically develop that unit. The Death Korps Vanquisher is one of my favourite 40k vehicles to this date, why not use more of them? Especially with unpleasent, melta-proof superheavies to worry about. Flint13 and Khornestar 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Mentlegems, Upon seeing a DELICIOUS as heck conversion in the lobby, I must ask just how bad would it be to swap in some Rotor Cannon Veletarii into my Supreme Battle Plan. It basically centres on a Stormlord loaded with 40 veletarii, stock with charges. Disembark and choomspam anything tragic enough to be nearby. Just for rule of cool, how bad/mediocre/terrible/meh would it be to swap out 10 charges for 10 rotor cannons? Just for volume of fire and rule of cool. It it's a significant disadvantage I'll pass but if it's only a mild one rule of cool takes sway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Rule of cool, really nice. But, I think Choom is cooler and more effective personally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid_O Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Rule of cool is awesome! If you crunch the numbers, 40 rotor shots vs 20 charger shots against meq they work out to about the same amount of wounds caused. That doesn't include deflagrate, which the Chargers get in exchange for half the range of rotors. The nice thing is that you can get a round of shooting off before bolters get in range of you, instead of the other way around with chargers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Rotor Cannons in legion lists suffer with having Calivers avaliable which have Deflagrate and S6 to offset Move and Fire. In an SA list, that is fine. It has been a long time since I have checked out SA SH Tanks, but is the Stormlord an option? You can check my sig, which is current up to Book IV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) Stormlords are available. My favorite SA superheavy is the Stormhammer, though. So awesome. Seriously, for 665 points you get the main gun, two battlecannons, and 9 BS4 lascannons. ZZaapzzapzappzzzap! Ugh, why are super heavies so expensive? That should be 500 points max given how easy it is to kill. Edited February 5, 2016 by Terminus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Stormlords are available. My favorite SA superheavy is the Stormhammer, though. So awesome. All the lascannons! ZZaapzzapzappzzzap! Or, for teh lulz, Multilasers ALL THE DICE. Alternatively, if you really hate your local ork player, heavy flamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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