jacqualine47 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Without Act of Faith, she will be preventing her Seraphim bodyguard from using their rules. That is unfortunate and indicates that GW are continuing the trend of taking all the cool stuff from Sisters and giving it to marines/et-al. Especially since our new relics are apparently for everybody as well. She still has bonuses unique to Sisters though, which is nice. I missed this, can you elaborate or provide a link please? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4619714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjulhu Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 She still has her crap Warlord Trait that allows us to do acts of faith at LD 10 rather than 9 and the Martyrdom special rule that because of how she works is unlikely to come up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4619728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Oh good , I can stick her in a squad of Black Templar Vanguard Veterans.Thanks GW Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4619741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqualine47 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 My thought: Use the Castellan FOC. Run all sisters units except for a few cherry-picked marine units which you model as sisters in more elaborate or heavier armour. That way those vanguard vets escorting Celestine are just veteran Seraphim. Also gives us some flyers and tanks. Not perfect, but I'm trying to find positives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4619770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Castellan will likely be my go-to detachment for my BT and Sisters going forward. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4619779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjulhu Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Ah I remember those heady days just before christmas when we thought Sisters of Battle were making a return. Then we find out our list in Imperial Agents was just a re-print of the digital dex minus St Celestine and a detachment worse than a CAD. Then at the end of the year we hear a rumour, the return of Celestine and a Holy Crusade to Cadia in a campaign suplement. And now we find out that the story of the campaign although involving St Celestine looks like it does not actually involve the sisters of battle, Celestine will work for any Imperial Army and just to put the boot in is probably far more useful and synergistic to those armies mechanically than her own. But it's ok we get a bonus in the form of a generic crusade detachment which we will take because by dint of existing it is better than the one we got in Codex: Imperial Agents and acess to some multi-faction relics. What a time to be a Sororitas player. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4619858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 My thought: Use the Castellan FOC. Run all sisters units except for a few cherry-picked marine units which you model as sisters in more elaborate or heavier armour. That way those vanguard vets escorting Celestine are just veteran Seraphim. Also gives us some flyers and tanks. Not perfect, but I'm trying to find positives. This can be very solid. Get some Wyvern on top of your regular Dominion and BSS, maybe some Retributors and/or Grav Devastators to benefit from Relentless. Add a couple heavy SM hitters and have fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4619867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendal1989 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I'm pretty pleased all things considered. With Celestine back, and way better, I'd say the combined Sisters update was mostly good. At least for me and my play group as we don't restrict formations/detachments (no one is super power gaming without talking about it first) so the priest thing doesn't bother. With Celestine this beat stick, it really helps more aggressive builds and this Castellan FOC seems like it could be fun. Also, relentless & precision shot(from Verydian) Retributors seems like a cool thing. We can potentially have 2 cannoness with EW. Considering we've got nothing for such a long time, we've got a lot of nuanced options added that give a lot more tactical depth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I am getting a little fatigued by the emphasis on heroes and personalities over self contained, independent factions in list building. I was mad that Celestine was gone from CIA, and now I'm kind of mad that she's back like this. My friend who was telling me the other day how much losing her in CIA didn't matter because she sucked is now going to buy one for himself because she's now the next new power gaming tool. It saps my enthusiasm for the game. I don't like fighting against armies that have no core identity, and the direction GW is going is slowly chipping away at my own army's identity. 2016 was all Sisters all the time for me, but 2017 may be a year away from the Imperium just to keep that feeling away. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beams Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 The thing that annoys me, is she lost act of faithm. We should mass email GW to see if they can errata that Miraculous Intervention into Act of Faith: Miraculous Intervention... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of Dante Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Fortunately the people I play with have been sticking to the mono-codex ideal for the most part. Celestine not having the AoF rule is a massive oversight by GW. Or it's intentional and they want to screw us over for some reason. Maybe it's a typo in the assembly manual and she actually does have it? Or maybe they didn't feel like taking up the space to print the AoF rule and decided it would be easier to make her harder to use for Sisters than any other army. Ok. Well, the new detachment thing isn't particularly exciting, but the new relics are cool. Though my excitement for those is tempered by them being available to everyone. It's a little sad that when they said Sisters were involved they meant Celestine only. Oh well. Again, at least we're getting some attention, which is nice. Can we still use the e-codex Celestine? Is that legal? Especially if the new one doesn't have AoF I want to know . . . (I'm really trying to be positive, but the only thing I'm excited about is the fact that we got new models and rules. im not actually that into the new look for Celestine (really like her two bodyguards though) and the new rules are pretty meh for the way I play. I mean, Celestine's rules are mostly awesome, but she doesn't nessessarily fit the flavor I want out of my Sisters army. And not having the AoF rule doesn't help.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beams Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Fortunately the people I play with have been sticking to the mono-codex ideal for the most part. Celestine not having the AoF rule is a massive oversight by GW. Or it's intentional and they want to screw us over for some reason. Maybe it's a typo in the assembly manual and she actually does have it? Or maybe they didn't feel like taking up the space to print the AoF rule and decided it would be easier to make her harder to use for Sisters than any other army. Ok. Well, the new detachment thing isn't particularly exciting, but the new relics are cool. Though my excitement for those is tempered by them being available to everyone. It's a little sad that when they said Sisters were involved they meant Celestine only. Oh well. Again, at least we're getting some attention, which is nice. Can we still use the e-codex Celestine? Is that legal? Especially if the new one doesn't have AoF I want to know . . . (I'm really trying to be positive, but the only thing I'm excited about is the fact that we got new models and rules. im not actually that into the new look for Celestine (really like her two bodyguards though) and the new rules are pretty meh for the way I play. I mean, Celestine's rules are mostly awesome, but she doesn't nessessarily fit the flavor I want out of my Sisters army. And not having the AoF rule doesn't help.) If you check the reports by goonbandito, the sisters and guard seem like they are the primary forces on cadian, or at least are leading the front. It's a shame we don't get too much rules for it, but it's only book one. And as for the new detachment, it's basically codex:witch hunters 2: electric boogaloo Whether or not that's your bag of tea is up to you, but personally, I think it'll be useful... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
taikishi Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 The thing that annoys me, is she lost act of faithm. We should mass email GW to see if they can errata that Miraculous Intervention into Act of Faith: Miraculous Intervention... She lost it as an Act of Faith because of how the Act of Faith rules work. Being an Act of Faith, it would prohibit her from using it if she joined any unit/model (like the Triumverate formation) without the rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Dawnstar Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 The thing that annoys me, is she lost act of faithm. We should mass email GW to see if they can errata that Miraculous Intervention into Act of Faith: Miraculous Intervention... She lost it as an Act of Faith because of how the Act of Faith rules work. Being an Act of Faith, it would prohibit her from using it if she joined any unit/model (like the Triumverate formation) without the rule. With that in mind, wouldn't the sensible approach have been to change the effect to no longer be an Act of Faith (without actually changing its function, Leadership Test and all) while still leaving Celestine herself with the Act of Faith special rule so that she didn't interfere with other units that possess the Act of Faith rule? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of Dante Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 The thing that annoys me, is she lost act of faithm. We should mass email GW to see if they can errata that Miraculous Intervention into Act of Faith: Miraculous Intervention... She lost it as an Act of Faith because of how the Act of Faith rules work. Being an Act of Faith, it would prohibit her from using it if she joined any unit/model (like the Triumverate formation) without the rule. With that in mind, wouldn't the sensible approach have been to change the effect to no longer be an Act of Faith (without actually changing its function, Leadership Test and all) while still leaving Celestine herself with the Act of Faith special rule so that she didn't interfere with other units that possess the Act of Faith rule? Ooooooooooh! Why didn't I notice that! Ok, well, now it makes sense, but I still wish they would have found a way to give her the AoF rule so she doesn't nerf the unit of Seraphim I'm inevitably going to join her to :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
taikishi Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I agree, Brightstar, but that's a question for GW unfortunately. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beams Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Removing it deletes the quad handflamer + heavy flamer all with shred seraphim troop Nuke, which helped them immensely. I guess it's still doable so long as Celestine stays away from the fluffiest troop for her and her girls. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothical Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I don't think the lack of Act of Faith is too much of an issue - it's annoying for sure, but other than Repentia we have no units with Act of Faith that really want to be in close combat. Seraphim want to be shooting at short range rather than charging in. Celestine is also less dependant on having a bunker now thanks to her increase in wounds, the respawning Geminae and Eternal Warrior. Therefore, I plan on still using Seraphim to bunker Celestine, but separating them when I get close to the opponents units, so the Seraphim can go off pistol-shredding whilst Celestine and the Geminae chop their way through a different unit. Playing them this way, the only thing that has changed is that Celestine can no longer get Shred on her Ardent Blade ranged attack and the Seraphim lose a tiny bit of Ld - I'm happy to trade that for the massive boost to survivability and killing power she picked up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackScorpion22 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Can... can we go back to old celestine rules? At least with my glass hammer I enjoyed shocking people with how effective she could be. Now when she does something epic my opponent will be like, "well ya she did something amazing, she is super OP for her rules". What is worse, I will agree. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
taikishi Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 You can still use C:AS, so yes you can use the previous version of Celestine if you wish. And I'm sure it's what GW will say since they've done two versions of a number of things like Rune Priests, then let you run 'whichever' >.> Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of Dante Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Yay! I think I know which Celestine I'll be running :P and if I do get the new models, the Gemini (or whatever they are called) will make good Seraphim Superiors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjulhu Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 The old Celestine is not usable in the new detachment however as the big force organisation table does not list her Codex:Adepta Sororitas incarnation as a valid HQ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothical Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Can... can we go back to old celestine rules? At least with my glass hammer I enjoyed shocking people with how effective she could be. Now when she does something epic my opponent will be like, "well ya she did something amazing, she is super OP for her rules". What is worse, I will agree. Personally I'm looking forwards to my Sisters of Battle army being declared OP, it's not something I've experienced before :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beams Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Can... can we go back to old celestine rules? At least with my glass hammer I enjoyed shocking people with how effective she could be. Now when she does something epic my opponent will be like, "well ya she did something amazing, she is super OP for her rules". What is worse, I will agree. Personally I'm looking forwards to my Sisters of Battle army being declared OP, it's not something I've experienced before :P People flip out when I bring excorcists. Why? I have no clue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of Dante Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Yeah. Exorcists are solid, sure, and they are competitively costed, more or less, but they can still whiff big time, and they really aren't that bad. They are good ranged support with solid front armour. No more, no less. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328820-the-return-of-celestine/page/16/#findComment-4620484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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