8th Edition: Zeal Rising

[Brother Christopher]

Now I'm a bit less enthusiastic about the new Edition. At the same time, I'm now even more curious how it actually plays.

[balordazul]

Now I'm a bit less enthusiastic about the new Edition. At the same time, I'm now even more curious how it actually plays.

 

Can I ask why about being less enthusiastic.

 

To me this is not the 3rd to 7th into 8th.  As everything from 3rd on was patch onto the game and not getting a full rebuild.  

 

I look at 8th as 40.1k or 40k NEW.  This is a reboot of the game vs slight patchwork that we have seen over the years.  They are changes units rolls and point scales big time.  

 

I think the games are going to be played at slight more points than we have in the past but it could be the name amount of models on the table.  

[Brother Christopher]

 

Now I'm a bit less enthusiastic about the new Edition. At the same time, I'm now even more curious how it actually plays.

 

Can I ask why about being less enthusiastic.

 

Sure!

 

I look at 8th as 40.1k or 40k NEW.  This is a reboot of the game vs slight patchwork that we have seen over the years.  They are changes units rolls and point scales big time.  

 

I think the games are going to be played at slight more points than we have in the past but it could be the name amount of models on the table.  

 

 

Considering the disappointments I've suffered, I have limited confidence in GW. I am simply worried that what you said above won't happen. But I keep and open mind and wait for the time we see the whole picture.

[Kastor Krieg]

2000 pts per side, about 2h gameplay, they said. Model-wise equivalent to old 1500 pts / side.

[balordazul]

True GW had not had a very good history of understanding the market.  I do think a lot of are still waiting for them to surprise us with a dirty trick or a flat out lie.  

 

You always have the option to wait for the new version to come out and talk with your friends or look on the forums to get an idea of the state of the game.  If you don't have faith in them right now save your money and just wait as that will not hurt you.  

 

I did that in 7th as I disliked what I was seeing in 6th and 7th was pushing in a way I liked even less.

 

IF the GW claims are true about listening to the community 40k could be a great game again but I still have not found the best way to give them feedback. 

 

Right now I'm hunting the net for BT data sheeting and really want to know what our chapter tactics are.  

 

 

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Also I'm ready to burn, shoot and punch stuff. 

 

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee473/Baleface/BT%20Army/IMG_0126.jpg

[Firepower]

Well, in terms of whether or not we have to buy each weapon, you have the Baal Pred entry saying 'this tank is equipped with a TL Assault cannon" before mentioning what weapons it can optionally take.  I'd wager LR's have a similar entry.  I would guess the turret weapon (TL-AC in the case of LRC) comes standard just because it's the one part of the model you couldn't remove without leaving a gaping hole, and it can't be swapped out for anything else.

[Medjugorje]

With the fact that the unit is charging starts a combat, the old rules from Helbrecht can be very very strong.

But 2pt for a cenobite shows how bad they are... i think we dont see them any more.

 

I think that it will be like before - the Ultramarines and 1 or 2 other chapters will be played because they are too good in compareson to the rest and we still sittin in the corner.

[Marshal_Roujakis]

Regardless of how good or bad the Chapter Tactics will be, I highly doubt we'd see Templar players sitting in the corner...

 

That also includes of regardless of how good or bad Primaris will be in regards to Templar players having them as well... it doesn't matter...

The Crusade is Eternal...

[balordazul]

Looking for the BA stuff Litanies of Hate is to hit in CC for unites in 6".  

 

So that is a nice buff as we can get it all the time.  

 

Also dust off your apothecary.

[Acebaur]

So I did some mathhammer on our beloved (now 314 point) LRC with MM.  The TL AC basically doubled it's damage output. The old version killed an average of 1.383 MEQ per turn. The new one, even though it lost rending, has 12 shots which more than compensates for the loss of rending killing 2.66 MEQ 

 

The Hurricane bolters which previously were usually relegated to snap firing now can fire at full BS while the LRC moves at full tilt. Previously while snap firing you could kill about .599 MEQ with them inside double tap range. Now that number climbs to 2.66. 

 

This is in addition to having 16 wounds T8 and a 2+ save, being able to charge and attack in close combat and being able to shoot all it's guns at separate targets. 

 

i'll still probably take 2 :lol:

[Marshal Arthur]

I just realized we could have some solid drop pod lists. Since they can't hold multiple units we can have two crusader squads with special and heavy/power weapons in a single drop pod. Combine that with the lack of scatter and split fire and we have some versatile and mobile options. Of course half of our army has to have boots on the ground but throw in some LRCs with more crusaders and we can throw out a lot of firepower all over the board.

[balordazul]

So it seems Chapter traits are not coming out in the index books.  Via some people on here and over at dakkadakka.

 

Now I guess we are waiting to see our characters and the crusader squad data sheets.

[T-Rock]

I just realized we could have some solid drop pod lists. Since they can't hold multiple units we can have two crusader squads with special and heavy/power weapons in a single drop pod. Combine that with the lack of scatter and split fire and we have some versatile and mobile options. Of course half of our army has to have boots on the ground but throw in some LRCs with more crusaders and we can throw out a lot of firepower all over the board.

Agreed! This is how I imagine my list running. It depends on points, but ideally I'll have an LRC or two filled with crusaders rolling up the field while drop pods with dev squads/dreads cp,e in where needed. If points allow, it'd be great to have a vindicator accompanying them as well.

 

I know there has been a lot made about how we're losing our flavor, but with with a build like this, hopefully improved heroes, and some chapter tactics, that seems like a pretty darn Templar sound list to me. I have some reservations whether primaris marines are a canary in the cole mine for current scale marines, but for now it looks like 8th is going to let us run Black Templar the way they should be run and still be competitive. I plan on riding that wave for as long as I can.

[Banjulhu]

So it seems Chapter traits are not coming out in the index books.  Via some people on here and over at dakkadakka.

 

Now I guess we are waiting to see our characters and the crusader squad data sheets.

It is looking an aweful lot like the 5 index books that are coming out are akin to what was in the back of the 3rd Ed rule book. Get you by rules rather than anything of real note.

[_luca_93]

LOL.

Emprah's Champion it's really big

 

Now we need to wait our traits :S

[balordazul]

LOL.

Emprah's Champion it's really big

 

Now we need to wait our traits :S

 

 

hmmm ok is it posted somewhere or can you give us a hint?

 

Also has anyone seen the Zealot rule over on the SoB models?  It is basically hatred when you charge or get charged.  I could see BT units getting this.

[bolvar]

Hmm, no chapter tactics until we get full-fledged codex (maybe supplements??)... A pity

 

 

 

LOL.

Emprah's Champion it's really big

 

Now we need to wait our traits :S

 

 

Where have you seen Emperor's champion stats?

[d3m01iti0n]

He hasn't.

[Medjugorje]

Weapons for the knights are not well balanced (points)  - i am sure that we get a dishonest codex - like we ever did... except we play lists which would not take the feeling of a real BT Army. Like its that what GW ever does.

[TheOneTrueZon]

I never, ever, thought I would quote this guy - but it feels very relevant to the mood on the boards of late with all the "known unknowns" speculation or that GW needs to give us our identity back with our own Codex. Hate to break it to anyone who hasn't figured it out already - you make your own identity in this game. 

 

“You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.”

 

 

- Donald Rumsfeld 

 

 

To select Black Templars as your army is an implicit agreement that EVERYTHING will be a challenge. And the 8th edtion will be a challenge well met. GW can serve up rules any way they want, and when the dust settles, the people in this forum will create ways to play it like a Templar. Once the new rules are here in their entirety mid-June, it'll be time to huddle up and crack this nut. Until then, there's painting to be done Brothers.

 

Perhaps this will strike a chord with everyone here...

 

"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."

 

 

- George S. Patton

 

 

 

SO. What do we need to do? I think we all know the answer to that...

[redmapa]

According to a guy in /tg/ this is the new Emperor's Champion

 

 

 

emperors champ 108 points
m 6 ws 2+ bs 3+ s 4 t 4 w 4 a 4 ld 8 sv 2+

obsidian blade: s +2 ap -3 d3 dmg may reroll wound rolls against monsters and characters

sigismunds honor: add 1 to the emperors champions attacks and strength if a enemy characters is within 1"

herokiller: may reroll failed to hit rolls against characters

and has a 4+ invul

 

Similar to the old one.

[Brother Christopher]

In isolation, I think the EC's profile is very nice. I'm worried how he'll compare with other characters. Still, the glorious days of my 5th edition lists with the EC as a core HQ choice seem to be coming back!

[Acebaur]

In isolation, I think the EC's profile is very nice. I'm worried how he'll compare with other characters. Still, the glorious days of my 5th edition lists with the EC as a core HQ choice seem to be coming back!

He's also only 108 points, so for that cost he's brutal.

[balordazul]

Ya he is back in without feeling bad about the rules.  I love the changes so far.  Ok we need the High Marshal and Grim please. :)

[redmapa]

Same guy from 4chan

 

 

 

helbrecht is awesome, 6 wounds. 4 attacks (+d3 if he charges) gives black templars within 6" reroll to hit rolls for both shooting and cc (including himself) also all black templars within 6" of him get +1 strength. his sword is s +1 ap -3 dmg d3

grimaldus grants a 6" aura to black templars that let their to hit rolls of 6 give them a additional attack.

 

Apparently there are no stratagems or faction rules in the indices so no one is getting their chapter tactics in a while.