Medjugorje Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 they are not really a Close combat unit... but strong in movement and strong in short range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal_Roujakis Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 the Close combat might be not good for crusader squads. How is the CC not good for Crusader Squads? Chainswords on Initiates give them +1 Attack in addition to shooting pistols in combat... additional Neophytes act as shields for Overwatch... 3+ WS, 3+ Armour Save, Power Weapon on an Initiate and a Special Weapon on Another on top of a Sword Brother with an additional Power Weapon or Combi-Special Weapon, which means Flamers and Power Weapons for days... and on top of all that, a dedicated Transport Land Raider Crusader with more Bolter shots, Assault Cannon shots and throw in a Multimelta for good measure... I don't care how tough your Nurgles or Primaris or Carnifexes are... weight of dice will still kill you this edition... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Unless power weapon Initiates are getting a 2nd attack or power weapons are stupid cheap, like 5 points or less, it's no longer worth it to have 1 power weapon attack a turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Unless power weapon Initiates are getting a 2nd attack or power weapons are stupid cheap, like 5 points or less, it's no longer worth it to have 1 power weapon attack a turn Ya I was thinking the same thing trying to work out all the "what ifs" but we will just need to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Sorry for consecutive posting but is it me or does the point index system seem even clunkier than last two versions? An Inceptor is going be 34 base + the two guns (7+7) making them 48 per. It is a more accurate system on seeing the back end elements of the game but I do see more chances for people making simple mistakes of missing a item or two on list building without extra support software like army builder. Overheating (Gets Hot) vs supercharge I'm looking at you the only plasma weapon we have details on so far the Plasma Incinerator. First is this a replacement for the rule old gets hot rule? Personally I like it if supercharge is the replacement as it would give you the choice to take the chance in game vs choosing do I waste points in army construction on a weapon that might hurt my units. What do you all think of the supercharge "gets hot" effect that it auto slays the model? NOTE: A model with Rites of Battle will give you a very good chance to spam supercharge without killing your guys. Lastly looking at you Grim and your master crafted plasma pistol combined with the rites of battle buff he will have a chance to do 3 damage in a shot. 1 base, 1 MC, 1 supercharged Edit: Ok they just posted the rules and supercharge is the replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 the Close combat might be not good for crusader squads. We might have to combine shooting and assault. I can't find anything that prevents charging after you shoot rapid fire or heavy weapons in the leaks so far too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 There isn't, you can now charge after firing heavy or rapid fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 There isn't, you can now charge after firing heavy or rapid fire Bolter Initiates seem less heretical with this change. Granted, they don't get that many attacks (unless there is a statline change, special character rule, a Chapter Tactic rule or Strategem) that but shooting things in the face and then charging seems viable for large units to pour on the wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 If the current Crusader configuration stays the same then I can see double power fist squads becoming more useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 If the current Crusader configuration stays the same then I can see double power fist squads becoming more useful. With how much better Powerfists are in general compared to before (hitting 50% of the time beats dying before ever getting to swing) and doing multiple damage, they definitely have a place in armies for sure. That said, power weapons may stay the "cheap and cheerful" option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Unless power weapons are stupid cheap(which they may be given the points that were leaked) putting one on an Initiate for 10 or 15 points is a complete waste since they will have exactly 1 attack in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Unless power weapons are stupid cheap(which they may be given the points that were leaked) putting one on an Initiate for 10 or 15 points is a complete waste since they will have exactly 1 attack in combat. True, but the same arguement could be made for putting a powerfist on one that hits half of the time. We need to see what Crusaders do to really make that choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 ^100% will you guys Ok I got to say I do like the look of that new dread. I hope it has more arm options than plasma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 The change to ATSKNF might be a bit of a kick to Black Tide coming back since it could potentially cause more wounds to your units. I'm feeling more and more that the Land Raider Crush method might be the best way going forward for the army if you want to get face stabbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal_Roujakis Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Sigh... as much as it galls me, I might actually just quit BT (at least for a while, since no Templar hangs up his Tabard permanently) due to the emergence of the Primaris Space Marines... I've decided to ignore these chaps, refuse to "True-Scale" my Marines due to overwhelming amount of work that would cause and I'll refuse to collect the Primaris even when I get the starter box set, but due to the more advanced rules that these guys are getting, especially in comparison to the lackluster rules that Space Marines in general looks to be getting, one would have to see that Space Marines might just be going the way of the Bretonnians... I'm not saying that they are completely going to squat Marines... far from it... they are going to do a 5th ed. style Creep... but instead of just armies getting power creep'd, it'd be both models and rules-wise that would be getting it... Suddenly, you'd have Primaris Marshals... Primaris High Chaplains... we have confirmation already of Primaris Dreadnoughts, so we could see where the curve is going... don't get me wrong as well, I'm not saying that the revolution to 8th is bad... it's turning out good... but my models, which I have spent more than a decade to collect, is now threatened to be shelved by new guys just because GW has decided to avoid being cluster-bombed by 3rd party companies that produces stuff that they don't... I mean, I can't help it if a 3rd party modelling co. produces better Extra Armour for Land Raiders than GW or FW... or if they have better Knightly helms than the decade old BT upgrade sprue... I'm not bidding adieu just yet though... Templars fight until the end, regardless of if the entire Cathedral of the Emperor Ascendant is crashing down on you, or even if the floor your standing on is being consumed by Blood and Fire, or even if you are the Last Templar to carry the Black Sword fighting against impossible odds... I'm not going to go quietly into the night... I'm going to rage against the dawn... and face the finality with glory and zeal... I'm going to wait until 8th hits... and if it looks to be that I might as well sell my thousands upon thousands of stockpiled Templar models... I'm not going to... and I'm not going to collect those Primaris either... I'm going to defy Guilliman, keep my Templars (probably in stasis...) but I might just take a peek... into the depths of the Warp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 If the Primaris drop with chapter kits, especially a BT one I may get them. Otherwise I,m not seeing much yet to make me want to run them over anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 The change to ATSKNF might be a bit of a kick to Black Tide coming back since it could potentially cause more wounds to your units. I'm feeling more and more that the Land Raider Crush method might be the best way going forward for the army if you want to get face stabbing. Fulkes did I miss what ATSKNF does now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I don't really see the primaris as a threat to normal marines honestly Roujakis, the basic ones are pretty lackluster as an upgrade to regular marines and the best looking ones the (terribly named) Hellblasters are 40 points per model and a heavy support choice. I don't see any of them as an auto include Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 The change to ATSKNF might be a bit of a kick to Black Tide coming back since it could potentially cause more wounds to your units. I'm feeling more and more that the Land Raider Crush method might be the best way going forward for the army if you want to get face stabbing. Fulkes did I miss what ATSKNF does now? From what Warhammer fest folks are saying: reroll Battleshock tests. On a diffent not, the new boxy Contemptor look of the new Dread is alright. I'd be willing to put one on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Hey thanks for the info and that will help close combat units. It seems there are mixed reactions on the new dread. I did get a phone call tonight from a friend hating it after I explained the plasma rules as he was at Disney all day. I feel like you need to ask yourself do you like the classic dread design or contemptor? Do you use only GW models or expand into the FW range? This is almost a GW Leviathan Dread with a closer focus to the classic boxy design vs the smooth contemptor style FW came up with. To me visually I would play it over a GW contemptor but I will need to wait and see what options the kit has and if it is at least T8. I still don't have a lot of faith in T7 models with the new to wound chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 in combination with the Captain (who allows rerolls of 1) it might be very strong. So you can use them always with S8 and Damage2... Very good against Terminators or a Dreadk. or other Vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Shotgun neophytes will go from oddities to the new black for backing up their chainsword wielding masters in footslogging crusader squads. Reroll abilities might make power axes viable in crusader squads. If you can reroll more than just 1s fists will have a place as well. Always wounding on 6s means there will be nothing that 20 space marines won't look at and be forced to think "I can't kill that". Plasma guns will see more use now that they aren't a way to stop yourself charging. Terminators will be worth deep striking. Which will mean more room in your land raiders for crusader squads. Chaplain and Marshall within 6" of two 20 man crusader squads will be scary. Radial buffs are amazing and 20 man space marine squads will get more points efficiency out of radial buffs than anything else (do I need to mention that neophytes make crusaders the most points efficient 20 marine squads?). I'll probably go back to mechanised though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 http://oi1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah177/nevscorner/FB_IMG_1495970426428_zpsaqjryzir.jpg Well new tank someone found in the back of an image. Looks to be a larger predator type tank with some LR design elements. Possibly something like a Primaris version of a M2 Bradley (Bradley Fighting Vehicle). It feels more like a M2 Bradley as we don't see side sponsons, so it does not have that heavy combat feel. Doing a transport with ok fire support would allow GW to only need to make one or two new Primaris new tanks right away. The reason I said (or two) it does give them a chance to do a combo kit as they seem to be a fan of that. ------ Ok I want one via this pic. It would look very nice all decked out for the crusade, http://i.imgur.com/Tpsx51E.jpg Well we have seen 4 weapons with it now. I'm also making up names for the weapons. Right are this super assault cannon, and a plasma incinerator cannon. Left arm with the fist we have seen a smaller less super assault cannon and what looks to be some kind of flamer. Top we see possibly a missile system of some kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Up top might be a new smoke launcher design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 It might but it has that targeting optic system, this leads me to think it is a weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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