What have your Raven Guard done lately?

[ShinyRhino]

We had a narrative event this weekend using the Custom Character and Battle Honors rules from CA18.

 

I turned my Primaris Lieutenant with Stalker Bolt Rifle into a Sniper with the upgrades to test out some proof of concept for sniper units. I gave him +1 BS, +1 Str and +1 shot on the rifle and the ability to target characters.

 

He really didn't do a lot. Even at S5 and BS2, he didn't kill much. He put wounds on Typhus in two different games, but didn't kill them. Threw a few shots into Ork bikes and buggies, etc.

The +1 BS was negated often by table effects (narrative event), but the main point was targeting characters with two shots.

 

I just didn't find targeting characters to be useful against two Death Guard armies and an Ork Evil Sunz army. I really would have liked to see it against Guard, but no one ran any out of 18 players.

Snipers feel like more of a psychological tool than anything. The HVTs you really want to take out have bodyguards that steal the few wounds you get through.

 

How are others successfully using sniper units (that aren't Vindicare)?

[thewarriorhunter]

I ran a unit of snipers against Tau and they did OK. They took out a Fireblade and were a nuisance but not much else. I agree that I think a lot of the value from snipers is the psychological element that they provide, and the Eliminators a bit more since they have a little bit of utility. As I've watched the discussion around them develop I'm of the opinion that they're there to make your opponent think about them and possibly take out some squishy characters. People seem to be upset that they won't take down Mortarion in a single round of shooting but I don't think that was ever their design intention.

[Panzer]

Taking out a Fireblade is actually really good considering it's a super reliable Markerlight and buffs Firewarriors a LOT. Also not the easiest target to take out with his Sv4+ and one more wound than most other T3 characters. ^^

I mostly add a unit of Eliminators to my army to have one more toy to play around with and to make the games more interesting for me and my opponent. Also because they are really cheap and durable objective holder for Marine standards that I can just deploy anywhere that's outside of my opponents deployment zone. ^^
 

People seem to be upset that they won't take down Mortarion in a single round of shooting but I don't think that was ever their design intention.

 
They really don't. Nobody ever complained that they can't take out a Daemon Primarch in one round. It was always about slightly more durable characters like Marines because those are the characters you find in most games. They might not be the targets you really want to kill because they aren't as important for an army as GSC or AM characters would be, but they are the ones you face the most. Saying people don't like them because they can't kill Mortarion in one round is nothing but unnecessary hyperbole that distracts from the actual argument.

Edited April 7, 2019 by sfPanzer

[thewarriorhunter]

Trying to scrounge up a 1k/1250 point game at my FLGS. I've got a 1250 list put together that I could run, I'd have a half painted model (Primaris Librarian) because the arms aren't on but I could have the body and base usable.

 

Here's what I was able to cobble together with completed units:

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [85 PL, 8CP, 1250pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Captain in Cataphractii Armor: Chainfist, Combi-plasma, Storm of Fire, Warlord

 

Primaris Librarian: 1) Veil of Time, 3) Psychic Scourge, Force sword, The Armour Indomitus

 

Primaris Lieutenants

. Primaris Lieutenant: Master-crafted auto bolt rifle

 

+ Troops +

 

Intercessor Squad: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle

. 4x Intercessor

. Intercessor Sergeant: Chainsword

 

Scout Squad: 5x Camo cloak

. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Sniper rifle

. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

Scout Squad: 5x Camo cloak

. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

. 3x Scout w/Boltgun

. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

 

Tactical Squad

. 4x Space Marine

. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun/Bolt pistol

. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Meltagun

 

+ Elites +

 

Cataphractii Terminator Squad

. Cataphractii Sergeant: Combi-bolter, Power sword

. Cataphractii Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power fist

. Cataphractii Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power fist

. Cataphractii Terminator: Chainfist, Combi-bolter

. Cataphractii Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Assault Squad: Jump Pack

. 2x Space Marine

. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

. Space Marine w/Special Weapon

. . Plasma Pistol & Chainsword: Plasma pistol

. Space Marine w/Special Weapon

. . Plasma Pistol & Chainsword: Plasma pistol

 

Inceptor Squad: Assault bolter x2, 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Devastator Squad: Armorium Cherub

. 5x Space Marine

. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

 

++ Total: [85 PL, 8CP, 1250pts] ++

 

 

My thoughts for the list:

 

LT camps with the devastators to give rerolls on wounds. I beefed up the dev squad because it's my only high damage unit that I can field so I wanted to give it some extra wounds to absorb the firepower that's bound to come it's way. I could swap him out for a captain if I drop the camo cloaks on my boltgun scouts if rerolling hits is the better way to go. I haven't mathhammered it out so I'm not sure if one is better than the other.

 

I've never run a librarian before so this is guess work: he hangs out with my troops and uses them for a shield. This hopefully allows him to assist with Veil of Time and be in smite range. I'm not sure if Psychich Scourge or Fury of the Ancients is better to give more MW potential if I can't VoT anything.

 

My Cataphractii Captain hangs out with my cataphractii and either hold an objective or apply pressure on a flank via deep strike. They're putting out a combined 22 bolter shots, 6's get -1AP and they're rerolling 1's. The captain's plasma gets overcharged if needed and is safer with the reroll 1's. If I can get them in ruins they should be hard to remove.

 

Inceptors Deep strike where I need a fire base established and if that happens to be near my captain even better. Assault squad will be left to either deep strike or start on the table depending on what it looks like but I have more than enough points to keep them off the board.

 

 

 

So... any thoughts on tactics/wargear? My units are pretty much locked in because I want to field painted stuff and this is what I have so please don't recommend adding X unit or swapping something out for Y.

[Race Bannon]

Pics or it didn't happen :lol:

[thewarriorhunter]

You should know by now that there will always be pics. Although the one taker I had for a 'casual' game had a shorter time frame so I think It'll be 750/1k points now. I basically have the same list but with no fast attack options.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Looks good!

 

If you were going to cut cloaks (which I would), I would do so to squeeze a heavy weapon in the Tactical Squad over the Melta (IIRC you have a few others painted). Anything with range so they can threaten since you have no way currently to get them up the board short of walking.

 

Good luck!

[thewarriorhunter]

Since it's going to be a smaller game we'll probably be on a 4 x 4 so nothing will be so far away that I can't get there. I put a 1k list together in case we go that point value and I've got my fast attack back in there for mobility.

[Claws and Effect]

 

People seem to be upset that they won't take down Mortarion in a single round of shooting but I don't think that was ever their design intention.

They really don't. Nobody ever complained that they can't take out a Daemon Primarch in one round. It was always about slightly more durable characters like Marines because those are the characters you find in most games. They might not be the targets you really want to kill because they aren't as important for an army as GSC or AM characters would be, but they are the ones you face the most. Saying people don't like them because they can't kill Mortarion in one round is nothing but unnecessary hyperbole that distracts from the actual argument.

He exaggerated the point a little, but what I think he was getting at is the mindset of a depressing number of players that immediately writes off anything new as trash unless it is clearly overpowered.

[mertbl]

Picking up urban conquest tomorrow. The raven guard will begin a shadow war in the current sector at once.

[MajorNese]

 

 

People seem to be upset that they won't take down Mortarion in a single round of shooting but I don't think that was ever their design intention.

They really don't. Nobody ever complained that they can't take out a Daemon Primarch in one round. It was always about slightly more durable characters like Marines because those are the characters you find in most games. They might not be the targets you really want to kill because they aren't as important for an army as GSC or AM characters would be, but they are the ones you face the most. Saying people don't like them because they can't kill Mortarion in one round is nothing but unnecessary hyperbole that distracts from the actual argument.

He exaggerated the point a little, but what I think he was getting at is the mindset of a depressing number of players that immediately writes off anything new as trash unless it is clearly overpowered.

Having tried these guys a few times - their output does suffer from the Vindicator syndrome. If you roll hot, they will wipe out something way above their weight. If you roll even a bit below average, they won't even manage to kill scouts, but still soak up a ridiculous amount of firepower. With only S4 you can't expect them to reliably drop anything T4 or above on their own, unless fielded in absurd numbers, but in combination with other snipers (like the vanguard libby) they might get the job done. Still, they are extremely resilient objective campers that annoy your opponent, which is acceptable for their points cost.

 

Picking up urban conquest tomorrow. The raven guard will begin a shadow war in the current sector at once.

Yeah, we're doing an UC campaign right now. Definitely fun with a chapter that is already hard to hit. And with camo cloaks, hard cover gives a primaris vanguard unit a theoretical 0+ save (3+, +2 hard cover, +1 camo cloak), raising them on the same level against AP-3 as storm shield terminators. MVP were the Inceptors though - height advantage makes them a lot scarier than they already are.

[thewarriorhunter]

I guess I'm playing guard tomorrow with my 1k list. I'm going to try and get in the same page as this guy because I really don't feel like repeating my last guard encounter.

 

It's a different guy who said he's a more casual player so we'll see what happens...

[mertbl]

Casual = only 9 leman russ.

 

 

I guess I'm playing guard tomorrow with my 1k list. I'm going to try and get in the same page as this guy because I really don't feel like repeating my last guard encounter.

 

It's a different guy who said he's a more casual player so we'll see what happens...

[thewarriorhunter]

Lol, he said only 2. I'm ok with that. I'm going to try and use LOS to my advantage.

[Panzer]

Depending on the AM list they are probably the hardest opponent to use LoS against them considering how many artillery options they have. :D

[Claws and Effect]

Depending on the AM list they are probably the hardest opponent to use LoS against them considering how many artillery options they have. :D

I was playing with Battlescribe and came up with a list that included 9 Earthshaker cannons......

[thewarriorhunter]

Yes, I know LOS can not be a thing with AM, but it sounds like he's bringing lots of infantry and a couple Leman Russ tanks so I may be able to use it to my advantage. I told the guy that I had a really bad/unenjoyable game against AM a month ago and he seemed understanding. Hopefully this guy is a good guy and we get along and have a fun game. I hate meeting up with randos at stores but unfortunately it's what I have to do until I can find a couple of guys who are like minded with how we want to play.

[duz_]

Not all guard players are terrible people ;)

[thewarriorhunter]

I don't think anyone is saying that... I'm sure there's a few good ones out there... somewhere...

 

OK, here's my 1k list:

 

 

+ HQ +

 

Captain in Cataphractii Armor: Chainfist, Combi-melta, Storm of Fire, Warlord

 

Primaris Lieutenants

. Primaris Lieutenant: Master-crafted stalker bolt rifle, The Armour Indomitus

 

+ Troops +

 

Scout Squad: 5x Camo cloak

. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

Scout Squad

. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Storm bolter

. 4x Scout w/Boltgun

 

Tactical Squad

. 4x Space Marine

. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Storm bolter

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

 

+ Elites +

 

Cataphractii Terminator Squad

. Cataphractii Sergeant: Combi-bolter, Power sword

. Cataphractii Terminator: Chainfist, Combi-bolter

. Cataphractii Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power fist

. Cataphractii Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power fist

. Cataphractii Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Assault Squad: Jump Pack

. 3x Space Marine

. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

. Space Marine w/Special Weapon

. . Plasma Pistol & Chainsword: Plasma pistol

 

Inceptor Squad: Assault bolter x2, 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Devastator Squad: Armorium Cherub

. 2x Space Marine

. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

 

++ Total: [73 PL, 8CP, 1000pts] ++

 

Mostly what I said a few posts ago but tweaked knowing what army I'm facing.

 

Terminators deep strike near armor. They've got a melta to hopefully put the hurt on armor and power fists and chainfists to chew it up in assault. It's probably going to take them a turn after deep striking to charge though so they need to survive. Combi-bolters chew up infantry.

 

Devs sit will my LT for long range support. Cherub and Hellfire shells give's me two chances for D3 Mortal wounds on armor. I can siginum the HB as well so it hits on 2's. I put two HB's in there in case I lose one so I've got a chance to pull that off.

 

Troops hold objectives or move up the board if needed. I put storm bolters on sgts and a ML in my marines for more shots.

 

Assault squad jumps around and tries not to die.

 

Inceptors DS in, hopefully within 6 of the captain for rerolls and provide a firebase to help chew up infantry.

 

See you on the other side!

[mertbl]

I'd say MSU infantry will give him trouble. You'll get your -1 and any high rate of fire weapons will go to waste killing 5 guys.

[mertbl]

http://imgur.com/gallery/7J4ijn5

 

Made some plasma combi plasma marines last night

[Claws and Effect]

Today my Vanguard Librarian claimed victory in the sci-fi category of a local game convention's painting competition.

 

Victorous Aut Mortis.

 

Well, since it won me a shirt, I suppose it would be Victorous Aut Shirtlus.

[thewarriorhunter]

Friday's game was better than my last guard game but I still suffered defeat. We played a CA2018 mission where troops were the only thing that could score objectives. He wiped out two of my three troop units by turn 2 so it was futile for me to pull out the win after that.

 

His list was:

 

Cadian

Infantry squad x 4

Command Squad

Tempestus Scions x 4

Leman Russ x 2, one being a tank commander

 

I might be missing an HQ or something but there were just too many bodies for me to deal with and once I was pushed off objectives it was hopeless. Again my Devastators got shot down first so I had nothing to deal with his tanks. My ASM had to be used to screen against a drop in my backfield so they were out of position for the majority of the game. My cataphractii did manage to blow up a tank after three rounds of CC, they were wiffing bad on die rolls so they were tied up longer than what was needed to be effective. Had they managed to take out the tank I could have probably consolidated across his back line and done more damage. I don't even know the final score, probably 6 or 7 to my 1 point.

 

My scouts had to use the buddy system to not fall off terrain, remain in it for cover, and be within 3 of the objective.

 

 

 

Good view, but they didn't last long:

 

 

Finally something going my way. They made the 9 inch charge and I was able to wrap the tank so it couldn't fall back.

 

 

A final futile charge for blood. They were promptly shot off the table next round.

 

 

My captain's last stand. He charged in for blood to do what he could. I believe the battle cannon rolled 12 shots and obliterated him.

 

 

After this game I honestly think I'm taking a break from 40k. I am not enjoying the game. Even when I find great opponents who bring softer lists I can't compete. I'm not sure if it's my bad tactics or a lack of any decent units... it's probably a combination of both, with the majority of it on my tactics. I know I need more AT on the board because my one unit gets shot off round 1/2 every game. Maybe when I get my hellblasters and Mortis dread painted up I'll look at picking up another game. I think this makes 7 losses in a row now, with a tie preceding that so I'm on a pretty demoralizing streak. My biggest complaint with 40k is still the 'I Go You Go'. It's not fun at all. I much prefer the alternating activation system of Kill Team and the Betrayal at Calth game.

 

They had a Bolt Action night going on while we were playing so I stayed for a bit and watched some of that. That has random alternating activation and looks like a lot of fun. I won't go into too much detail because B&C isn't the place for it but I think I might dip my toes over there and give it a shot.

[duz_]

Glad you had a better experience, even if you lost

The painted armies and table look great! :tu:

 

Yeh Power Armour is in a tough spot at the moment, so its understandable the burn out

To be honest I think I've had 2 maybe 3 games since October last year, I've been enjoying focusing on hobbying with the little time I do have to dedicate to it at the moment

 

If you believe what some of those in the know are saying, power armour will be getting a boost sometime this year, maybe take a step back focus on other aspects until then?

Personally I couldn't invest in another TT game 

What about Kill Team? I've heard Space Marines actually do quite well in it and it seems to be fairly popular?

[thewarriorhunter]

I've heard the same about PA getting a boost so we'll see what happens. I may still not fare well since I don't play super competitive... *shrug*

 

Kill team is fun but I'm a little sour on it as well after the tourny I was at a couple weekends ago.

 

I know me, and my personality dictates that I go all in on something for a year or two and then I lose interest. I've been in 40k for about 3 years and I think I'm just getting burned out. When I really sit back and examine why I think it's the game mechanics like I mentioned about.

 

I think trying out another system will be good for me. It'll help me figure out if I want to keep going all in on 40k or if I want to jump around between systems. Plus the scale modeler and history guy (I enjoy it but I'm no where near an expert) in me loves the idea of building WW2 stuff. It'll be a great pallet cleanser at least.

 

I'll continue to paint my 40k stuff and work on it, especially the stuff that I have in progress. But each game I play shows me that I'm not enjoying the time I spend playing, and I want to play, not just hobby. If that was the case I'd be on scale modeling forums instead of here.