HH to remain using 7th ed rules

[Charlo]

My future Vlka Fenryka is really liking the look of 8th, especially if Grey Slayers can still advance and charge!

....Disembark, Advance, Charge.... All from a humble Rhino? LAWDY !

I'm excited for Phosphex being hopefully toned down a little (like marines still getting a save as it moves to -2AP or something).

AP3 would equate to -2AP if they stay with the conversion factor, and it will probably retain some kind of re-roll to wound mechanic. I am interested to see how Breachers are treated since there are no template or blast weapons anymore. If they just get a flat re-roll to saves, that would make them very durable.

Maybe roll two dice and pick the lowest for "number of hits" when shooting them? That would be cool.

Or reduce the AP of anything that does multiple hits by 1?

[Baluc]

Probably just re-roll saves of '1'

[SkimaskMohawk]

Anyone else see the chaos leviathan datasheet they posted? Grav is d3 9, -5, 2. You get an extra d3 per 5 models in the unit and against vehicles and monsters the damage changes to 5.

 

Also they're tankier than a Russ with 14 wounds t8 and (for chaos at least) a 5++ from shooting and a 4++ in combat. And it hits on 2s to start with.

[Spiritual Liege]

The new Leviathan is a beast. Hard to decide on guns, they all seem like pretty powerful choices. Maybe grav bombard and siege drill would be my choice, but the butcher cannon seems like a fun gun too. The new weapon, soulburner ribaudkin is pretty weird, not sure how useful, but could be devastating if Tzeentch is on your side.

[Gorgoff]

The new Leviathan is a beast. Hard to decide on guns, they all seem like pretty powerful choices. Maybe grav bombard and siege drill would be my choice, but the butcher cannon seems like a fun gun too. The new weapon, soulburner ribaudkin is pretty weird, not sure how useful, but could be devastating if Tzeentch is on your side.

Which can't be in the Heresy. ;)

[Spiritual Liege]

Right...

[1ncarnadine]

Anyone else see the chaos leviathan datasheet they posted? Grav is d3 9, -5, 2. You get an extra d3 per 5 models in the unit and against vehicles and monsters the damage changes to 5.

 

Also they're tankier than a Russ with 14 wounds t8 and (for chaos at least) a 5++ from shooting and a 4++ in combat. And it hits on 2s to start with.

 

The doubling-up against 5 or more models in a unit seems to be the common way to approach what were previously 5" blasts. Maybe 7-10" apocalyptic blasts will add a further D3/D6/whatever for 10 or more models, etc?

[Withershadow]

Butcher cannon seems very good for forcing Battleshock.  Only AP1, but a lot of attacks at a high strength (wounding T4 on 2+), and 2 automatic damage will make it great for erasing Primaris, Custodes, and Terminators.  With two butcher cannons, you're shooting 16 times, hitting 13 times, wounding 11 times, killing 5.5 marines out of cover.  If it's 6 full casualties, even a Ld8 target will lose as many more members as the die result of the battleshock roll.  Even against terminators it can easily drop 3 of them, and then they lose more guys on a 4+ from battleshock.

 

Going up to 36" range makes it a solid gun platform option, it no longer needs a pod to reach out and touch someone.  It also has a frankly ridiculous movement *8* when at full strength, so that's a 44" threat range, so it can easily reach the other end of the table from wherever you deployed it.  I'm actually a bit disappointed that the claw is strictly inferior to the drill, I was hoping its snippy snippy rule was going to carry over in some way to make that actually a choice. 

 

Either of the shorter-range guns are absolutely terrifying.  The grav bombard makes vehicles and elite units sad, the soulburner wounds automatically and ignores all armor and invulnerable saves! 

[Gorgoff]

Butcher cannon seems very good for forcing Battleshock. Only AP1, but a lot of attacks at a high strength (wounding T4 on 2+), and 2 automatic damage will make it great for erasing Primaris, Custodes, and Terminators. With two butcher cannons, you're shooting 16 times, hitting 13 times, wounding 11 times, killing 5.5 marines out of cover. If it's 6 full casualties, even a Ld8 target will lose as many more members as the die result of the battleshock roll. Even against terminators it can easily drop 3 of them, and then they lose more guys on a 4+ from battleshock.

 

Going up to 36" range makes it a solid gun platform option, it no longer needs a pod to reach out and touch someone. It also has a frankly ridiculous movement *8* when at full strength, so that's a 44" threat range, so it can easily reach the other end of the table from wherever you deployed it. I'm actually a bit disappointed that the claw is strictly inferior to the drill, I was hoping its snippy snippy rule was going to carry over in some way to make that actually a choice.

 

Either of the shorter-range guns are absolutely terrifying. The grav bombard makes vehicles and elite units sad, the soulburner wounds automatically and ignores all armor and invulnerable saves!

That.

Als I wonder how much it will cost.

It's the same "Power Level" as the Tyranid special character and in my oppionion much much better.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Must admit, I'm really interested in the Homebrew potential with the new ruleset, with regard to it's simplicity, the fact most rules for the wider factions will all be in one place & the power levels providing an easier quasi-alternative to points values, which I've always hated devising for my Homebrew stuff.

Looks like quite a few vehicles I've designed over the years that have languished without rules will finally get their day in the sun

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

Butcher cannon seems very good for forcing Battleshock. Only AP1, but a lot of attacks at a high strength (wounding T4 on 2+), and 2 automatic damage will make it great for erasing Primaris, Custodes, and Terminators. With two butcher cannons, you're shooting 16 times, hitting 13 times, wounding 11 times, killing 5.5 marines out of cover. If it's 6 full casualties, even a Ld8 target will lose as many more members as the die result of the battleshock roll. Even against terminators it can easily drop 3 of them, and then they lose more guys on a 4+ from battleshock.

 

Going up to 36" range makes it a solid gun platform option, it no longer needs a pod to reach out and touch someone. It also has a frankly ridiculous movement *8* when at full strength, so that's a 44" threat range, so it can easily reach the other end of the table from wherever you deployed it. I'm actually a bit disappointed that the claw is strictly inferior to the drill, I was hoping its snippy snippy rule was going to carry over in some way to make that actually a choice.

 

Either of the shorter-range guns are absolutely terrifying. The grav bombard makes vehicles and elite units sad, the soulburner wounds automatically and ignores all armor and invulnerable saves!

That.

Als I wonder how much it will cost.

It's the same "Power Level" as the Tyranid special character and in my oppionion much much better.

 

 

Kind of important to note that we havent seen the full array of tyranid psychic powers or any of the synergy that the SL brings. It's safe to say that, outside of marls of chaos, this particular levi has no synergy and the 30k one won't have any at all. Also points=/=power level.

 

Anyone here remember if the stats cap was removed on all stats or only wounds? Because STR 16 means you're wounding all released heavy vehicles on 2s and buildings on 3s. 

 

Also just noticed that the chaos one only gets one gun arm max.

[Slips]

All stats caps have been removed, yes.

[1ncarnadine]

Yeah, S16 is real here. 

 

Makes me wonder what kind of S and T values the Warlord Titan with a power claw will have.

[Slips]

S: You Die. Probably. Also, looks like Comtemptors might also be T8 with a 2+ (3+ for cortus) with the only difference being wounds; expecting 10 myself.

 

Or something.

[Gorgoff]

I wonder how Grots will be. ;)

 

Joking aside I do wonder if the additional attack for two ccw/ combination of ccw + pistol is gone. Chainswords are +1 attack which is for a small hint in that direction. That would solve a lot rules disputes.

[Slips]

I wonder how Grots will be.

Not relevant to 30k or this board as theyve always been.

[Gorgoff]

I wonder how Grots will be.

Not relevant to 30k or this board as theyve always been.

But they're cute. :)

[Withershadow]

The biggest issue converting 7th phosphex (and graviton) weapons to 8th are the effects templates they leave in place. So they will either drop that entirely, or put some kind of negative status effect on the target, like setting them on fire or slowing them down for the next turn.

 

Additional attack for CCW does seem to be gone since the Leviathan needs a special rule to be able to benefit from having two weapons.  On the other hand, that may only apply to vehicles, and infantry have an innate rule that two CCWs = +1 attack.  We'll have to wait and see.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Seeing as the bombard doesn't affect movement any more, it looks like its been dropped as a concept

[Slips]

The main thing is the Melta Lance better be able to compete with the Grva Flux in terms of damage output vs Vehicles.

 

If you roll 3 Hits and hit with all 3 shots (on a 2+ to boot), then you've potentially dealt 15 wounds to a vehicle.

 

If the Soulburner is the Melta Lance equivalent then its basically 2d3 Auto-Wounds-per-hit since Mortal Wounds ignore armour and invulnerable saves iirc which is fine, I guess, but doesnt have the high-end massive damage potential of the Grav Flux.

 

We also kinda get confirmation on what a Heavy Flamer is likely to be: Heavy D6, S5 Ap-1 D2.

[Excessus]

Just remember that many weapons are very different for chaos in 40k compared to the heresy for the FW stuff. Lots of dark and daemonic tech going about...

[SkimaskMohawk]

Not too sure on the flamer being accurate, since its supposed to be the chaosified version and doesn't compete with volkites. Probably 2 damage or the -1, but not both imo. The melta lance is probably going to be 18", str 9, 3 or 4 shots, -4, d6 damage, roll 2 and pick the highest in half range. I think it'd need 4 shots to edge out the grav in terms of output, but we'll see

[Withershadow]

With even heavy flamers doing multiple damage, I suspect all the inflated wound values won't be as durable as a first glance may suggest.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Who knows what a heavy flamers statline is though? We only have a Hellflamer's stats. 

[Plaguecaster]

I think the Butcher cannon array will be a chaos only weapon so that mean storm cannon and melts lance stats haven't been revealed yet or Choom (so sad chaos can't have it :( ) . Yes grav arm is better though it doesn't have the same range as the butcher plus all it takes is one wound (should be easy with 8 Str 8 -1 hits at 36 ) and the unit is at -2 for leadership perfect for forcing battle shock tests.... damn sounds brutal for night lords :D