HH to remain using 7th ed rules

[Charlo]

If we get a straight up port of these rules, most people won't take combi weapons as they will probably now cost 20 per pop. I also am legit sad about both the removal of templates and the new mechanic. You have to roll random shots and still roll to hit. If they'd gone down that route it should have been D6 + X to make it a bit more predictable. No collateral damage either. What a bummer.

 

Flamers are D6 automatic hits, no need to roll to hit in addition. Sure you do with bigger guns but it's not that bad. They now do much more consistent damage against big targets, as opposed to one wound or one HP/ EXPLODE.

[Brofist]

I get that, but making AoE weapons better at hurting single models and measurably worse at crowd control? Seems silly. I'm absolutely biased though, since templates are one of my favorite mechanics.

[Raktra]

D6 shots/hits doing d3 wounds each, still pretty potent for crowd-clearance with good rolls!

[1ncarnadine]

Twin-Linked doubles the shots of the weapon now instead of re-rolling.

 

So, twin-linked Culverins is 8 shots instead of 4 shots re-rolling misses. Spartans potentially have 8 lascannon shots now if they remain the same.

 

Oh man yeah, Spartans could get crazy. Quad Heavy Bolter Rapiers would have 12 shots, too. Falchions, finally two shots. Maybe the Cerberus would actually become good? 

 

Twin-linked bolters on Terminators and on Rhinos, two shots each, 4 with Rapid Fire at 12"! Really makes me wonder what Storm Bolters will look like in 40k. Banestrike ammo could have an AP modifier instead of a pseudo-rend and might finally be decent, too. 

 

8th, or even just a hybrid 7th/8th ruleset, could breathe amazing life into the Heresy. We'll see... It would leave weapons that relied on templates in a weird place (think Graviton & Phosphex), but maybe there are simpler solutions to those, or some things might just stay with templates in Heresy gaming. I'm really hoping we don't stick with a 7th edition core. That Warhammer Fest announcement can't come soon enough!

[Brofist]

D6 shots, then you need to roll to hit. So your battle cannon is getting an average of 2 wounds with BS4. 2 wounds is great crowd clearance?

 

Edit: Also if you shoot it at marines they still get a 5+ save. So you're looking like you might kill 1 marine outside of cover. This is a major nerf.

[1000 Sons]

D6 shots, then you need to roll to hit. So your battle cannon is getting an average of 2 wounds with BS4. 2 wounds is great crowd clearance?Edit: Also if you shoot it at marines they still get a 5+ save. So you're looking like you might kill 1 marine outside of cover. This is a major nerf.

If it follows aos you roll d6 hits, and they hit, don't roll to hit again.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea important to note they said multiple wounds don't spill over to the unit like in AoS; a battle cannon can only ever kill up to 6 dudes, not 18

[Gorgoff]

I get that, but making AoE weapons better at hurting single models and measurably worse at crowd control? Seems silly. I'm absolutely biased though, since templates are one of my favorite mechanics.

Yupp.

Nothing so satisfying as to lie down a flamer template onto a unlucky unit. :)

I guess shooting big guns won't make any sence. D6 hits/shoots with only -2 in armour saves is nothing exciting.

 

Edit: I meant shooting big guns on big units.

[Slips]

It does make battlecannons better at taking out MCs and/or low model count multi-wound units *cough*mechanicum/knights*cough* now.

 

Also, the Multimelta LR Achilles now just got a whole lot juicier.

 

Hell, the Mastodons Melta Array just got potentially hilarious.

[helterskelter]

It does make battlecannons better at taking out MCs and/or low model count multi-wound units *cough*mechanicum/knights*cough* now.

 

Also, the Multimelta LR Achilles now just got a whole lot juicier.

 

Hell, the Mastodons Melta Array just got potentially hilarious.

We need to be conservative in our estimates for certain weapons I feel, we will have many good things from what examples we've been given, but the big old scary weapons are probably going to be tweaked to be less "CANON TO THE LEFT OF ME, CANON TO THE RIGHT" etc if you catch my drift

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It does make battlecannons better at taking out MCs and/or low model count multi-wound units *cough*mechanicum/knights*cough* now.

 

Also, the Multimelta LR Achilles now just got a whole lot juicier.

 

Hell, the Mastodons Melta Array just got potentially hilarious.

Robots be all sad face now. : }

[depthcharge12]

 

It does make battlecannons better at taking out MCs and/or low model count multi-wound units *cough*mechanicum/knights*cough* now.

 

Also, the Multimelta LR Achilles now just got a whole lot juicier.

 

Hell, the Mastodons Melta Array just got potentially hilarious.

We need to be conservative in our estimates for certain weapons I feel, we will have many good things from what examples we've been given, but the big old scary weapons are probably going to be tweaked to be less "CANON TO THE LEFT OF ME, CANON TO THE RIGHT" etc if you catch my drift

I sang the uppercase section in a Jimmy Buffet voice :P

 

"Cannons to the left...cannons to the right...and you're the only iron warrior in townnnnnnnn"

[Laughingman]

Someone can correct me but the battle cannon is only available for legion use on the malcador tank, so unless you regularly  play solar auxilia or militia and cults lists you are unlikely to be effected by the development. 

 

edit: D6 flamers (especially when you can take 10 of them) are still dangerous and the new mechanic will make using them much faster to use. So I welcome it. 

[Lord Blackwood]

I play knights, the battle cannon change is an interesting one to me , I am also curious as to how some of the knight weapon profiles will change. Maybe the Megara and Styrix will shift enough for me to be interested in owning them. 

Whats the hellstorm on my Archeon gonna look like ? 

The Atropos Gravity Singularity cannon ?  

There are a lot of interesting questions  I have rattling around in my head about my  resin  knights 

Especially if the Cerestus patterns will be stronger  wounds wise than the standard ones

[Charlo]

I think the singularity cannon is I'll just have an insane strength. We aren't limited to ten anymore.

 

Loads of damage and AP too.

[Arkangilos]

Vehicle weapon arcs are hugely important, as is los in general. I don't get the more laid back attitude some people have about arcs

Well I mean, it's a game. And some weapon arcs (like the knight's) are unreasonable. If it's close enough to where you would could reasonably argue about it, and that you have to check and recheck, then is there really a need to be a stickler? Just let it go and move on.

[SkimaskMohawk]

How are they unreasonable? They have double the arc walkers usually have, despite that many of their weapons can't physically go to the extreme end of their arc.

 

Movement and positioning is the most important part of the game, if I can't get a shot off with with one weapon or another from my Walker or flyer, I expect to to be because of terrain constraining my positioning or my opponent manoeuvreing properly. There should be punishment for poor positioning when there's detailed rules for it; players don't get to helical array intercept in a 360, they get a 45 to each side.

[Baluc]

I think a lot of people have an inappropriate pov on what a battlecabnon does. If a cannon isn't using a high explosive round its damage to even soft human bodies in an AoE effect is minimal.

 

The AP was always to high for the size of the explosion. They should have been 5 at best and probably half strength outside the hole.

 

They have always been an anti armour/wall weapons of various strength. What you are seeing is a re-alignment of what these weapons actually are and the role they play.

 

The first article spoke about a knight doing damage to a gmc the way it should.

[Raktra]

How are they unreasonable? They have double the arc walkers usually have, despite that many of their weapons can't physically go to the extreme end of their arc.

They also can't shoot at stuff in front of their faces...

[SkimaskMohawk]

Flyers also can't shoot things that are too close; if you move in a way that screws your arc over in terms of not pivoting that's 100% sloppy play, you could have taken the time in the Movement phase to ensure arcs are proper.

[Raktra]

I'm not on about too close, I mean directly in an eyeline. There's no logic to them being unable to point a gun at something in front of them when it physically can move its limbs that way.

EDIT: It's also a false weakness (when it comes to walkers) when monsters don't have the same limits. Part of where the inequality between vehicles and fleshy things came from.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Supposedly FW will be making at warhammer fest the end of this month.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Oh I agree that the current iteration of mcs vs walkers is terrible. Walkers usually have half the amount of wounds, the potential to be one shot, lose functionality, limited los and get slowed by terrain. Their only saving grace being immunity to small arms

[Gorgoff]

So, have you heared that regiment bases will be a thing in the 8th?

I mean since they'll get rid of the templates it totally makes sence.

Maybe the big flyer bases are good to move Orks and the like around. :D

[Ishagu]

And I think it has been proven just now in this topic that it's time to move on to 8th.