The Primaris Space Marines and the Space Wolves

[Jarl Caldersson]

So where do these new primaris recruit from? If it is somewhere other tha Fenris, did Cawl somehow fix the Canis Helix?

[Kelborn]

Thanks, guys.

 

I knew it would be wise to wait for Dark Imperium before working on a Primaris successor. Can't wait to get it by myself.

 

So we got one confirmed successor and the Primaris do feel connected with their parent chapters. Good to know. So the problem will more be one of being accepted by their brothers instead of becoming true Vlka. That changes my plans for my successor's history but I'm happy to know it better.

 

btw. we also got some new unit types mentioned in Dark Imperium as well:

 

- Primaris Librarians (would be interesting to have a pov from a PL regarding Fenris' world soul)

- a new dropship (larger and bulkier than a Thunderhawk) - Overlord

- a seemingly Devastor type unit with missile launchers on their shoulders in the new Gravis armor - Aggressors

- skull helmed infiltrators / scouts - Reivers

[Wispy]

So where do these new primaris recruit from? If it is somewhere other tha Fenris, did Cawl somehow fix the Canis Helix?

According to the spoilers thread Cawl thought it best to 'leave the idiosyncrasies of the BA and SW geneseed be.'

Edited June 4, 2017 by Wispy

[Kelborn]

Well that might be a bit of a problem as it was stated by GW, BL and FW that Fenris is essential for creating new Wolves.

 

And having two chapters (plus DYI ones) recruiting from Fenris is over the top and way of being reasonable.

[Wispy]

Well that might be a bit of a problem as it was stated by GW, BL and FW that Fenris is essential for creating new Wolves.

Nothing definitive has been said in thos respect. Inferno was the least book to touch on it and they said nothing of the like... Just that Fenrisians were hardier and toom to the geneseed better than terrans.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Wispy

[Jarl Caldersson]

So are they truely successors or are they just another company? If they are successors and recruit from a different world, wonder how long until we get Primaris Wulfen when they all go feral.

 

Battle of the fang is the book that states the issue with recruiting from different worlds. Also our only succesor chapters doom shows this as true.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Caldersson

[RikuEru]

Well that might be a bit of a problem as it was stated by GW, BL and FW that Fenris is essential for creating new Wolves.

 

And having two chapters (plus DYI ones) recruiting from Fenris is over the top and way of being reasonable.

Incoming "new" lore to easily fix this:

 

- The Space Wolves Legion had Fenrisian Serfs in their fleets during the Great Crusade. Some settled on new worlds. Cawl has probed worlds conquered by the 6th Legion for suiting DNA and found some.

For example Garm, Vanaheim and other planets with suitable nordic names (puuuure coincidence) or related to our Legion/Chapter history.

OR

- the people "abducted" by the GK and Inquisition at the end of Wrath of Magnus, were not killed, but mindwiped and re-settled someplace else.

OR

- Primaris Implantation Process does not rely on Fenrisian DNA to unlock the Canis Helix fully, because it is based on pure strings of DNA of Russ - hence why it worked on Terran Recruits at the start of the Great Crusade, too.

 

 

Atleast I'd like the Wolfspear Chapter to be based on Garm.

Build the little Outpost into a full grown Chapter Fortress.

[Jarl Caldersson]

Well so much for the proud Mother Fenris, the Cup of Morkai being necessary to make new SWs and also Test of Morkai, the theory that Fenrisians had wolf dna making the canis helix work, our psykers using Fenris, and how many other lore is now dead.

 

The terran crusaders didnt have problems with the wulfen because they never took part of the Cup of Morkai that every SW since has used. They Cup of Morkai was what made the Wulfen and what make a SW a SW. This fluff is nonsense.

 

Edit: GW fine sell us your Primaris Marines, just make them a new company. Dont go around messing with our 10k years of lore and traditions just to sel some models. This has shaken me at the core. I liked when we were a small elite army on only one planet. We were the elite chapter that had no successors and no need for successors. Now we are no different than any other chapter.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Caldersson

[RikuEru]

Well so much for the proud Mother Fenris, the Cup of Morkai being necessary to make new SWs and also Test of Morkai, the theory that Fenrisians had wolf dna making the canis helix work, our psykers using Fenris, and how many other lore is now dead.

 

The terran crusaders didnt have problems with the wulfen because they never took part of the Cup of Morkai that every SW since has used. They Cup of Morkai was what made the Wulfen and what make a SW a SW. This fluff is nonsense.

 

Edit: GW fine sell us your Primaris Marines, just make them a new company. Dont go around messing with our 10k years of lore and traditions just to sel some models. This has shaken me at the core. I liked when we were a small elite army on only one planet. We were the elite chapter that had no successors and no need for successors. Now we are no different than any other chapter.

Do we know that they don't use the Cup of Morkai? Maybe they found another way or a ritual revolving around the Spear.

Fenrisian descendants would have the same genetic make-up!

And the Test of Morkai can not be done on other planets why?

What if Primaris Librarians venture to Fenris to atone to its' Spirit, once they reach their full potential?

What if there is more than one Cup? Or Cups Russ used, that are aligned to the otherSpirit Wolves of Fenris?

 

Everyone Wants us to be more Viking-like - so why not sail the sea of stars and not only pillage and raid and fight, but SETTLE somewhere else?

 

I can't get how some people act like a fictious tribe of people from a certain village in Northern France, that easily defies the Roman Empire, but fears the sky might fall at any opportunity they get!

 

Just wait and see, be patient, like a true hunter should.

[Kelborn]

I'm really digging the thought of the Wolfspears being stationed on Garm!! Good idea, Riku!

 

And your suggestions about the people of Fenris being spread on other worlds sounds reasonable for me.

 

Ragnar did retrieve it, right? Only read the first three books of Bill's series so I don't know nothing of what happened next.

 

As for my own successor. I'll wait until I got more infos about the Primaris. Hopefully via the new rulebook. Until then, Pharos caught my attention and I love Guy's Night Lords. ^^ And I still have enough on my to-read-list until we got some definite facts.

[Jarl Caldersson]

 

Well so much for the proud Mother Fenris, the Cup of Morkai being necessary to make new SWs and also Test of Morkai, the theory that Fenrisians had wolf dna making the canis helix work, our psykers using Fenris, and how many other lore is now dead.

The terran crusaders didnt have problems with the wulfen because they never took part of the Cup of Morkai that every SW since has used. They Cup of Morkai was what made the Wulfen and what make a SW a SW. This fluff is nonsense.

Edit: GW fine sell us your Primaris Marines, just make them a new company. Dont go around messing with our 10k years of lore and traditions just to sel some models. This has shaken me at the core. I liked when we were a small elite army on only one planet. We were the elite chapter that had no successors and no need for successors. Now we are no different than any other chapter.

Do we know that they don't use the Cup of Morkai? Maybe they found another way or a ritual revolving around the Spear.

Fenrisian descendants would have the same genetic make-up!

And the Test of Morkai can not be done on other planets why?

What if Primaris Librarians venture to Fenris to atone to its' Spirit, once they reach their full potential?

What if there is more than one Cup? Or Cups Russ used, that are aligned to the otherSpirit Wolves of Fenris?

Everyone Wants us to be more Viking-like - so why not sail the sea of stars and not only pillage and raid and fight, but SETTLE somewhere else?

I can't get how some people act like a fictious tribe of people from a certain village in Northern France, that easily defies the Roman Empire, but fears the sky might fall at any opportunity they get!

Just wait and see, be patient, like a true hunter should.

Are you saying that we were able to recreate the cup, that only a single one was made and made by the emperor himself. No, the test of morkai is drinking from the cup of morkai which has the geneseed and the canis helix. It is the core of being a SW. It contains the canis helix. So if our successors dont have a "activated" canis helix then how do they have it at all? If the successors have pure geneseed, then there is no canis helix.

 

If we are able to do it now then why before had we failed. Also werent those people on Fenris taken because they were tainted by chaos and had mutations and such. Now they are merely brain wiped? It feels like such cheap fluff to cover up some core elements of ours. 10k years and denied a successor chapter. Oh instantly we have successor chapters with no problems. Oh and they have access to Fenris, oh and rune priest connected to fenris psshh no biggie they still are, and the reason being is because they are. Also all the problem with stabilizing the gene seed, no big deal cawl fixed that by using pure russ gene seed (not like we have that in our vault already but ignore that) our wolf priests are just incomptent. Oh and there is now a bunch of nordic planets all of a sudden for us to settle.

 

It just feels like they took so much and threw out the window. I would love to hear some solid logic on how this all happened.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Caldersson

[Dantay VI]

If Cawl took a thousand plus Trueborn Space Wolves and primarisized tem, that would be your successor chapter. They would now have to recruit their future Primaris marines from Fenris, who woud be sent to Garm after passing the tests.,

 

That would work for me :)

[Jarl Caldersson]

If Cawl took a thousand plus Trueborn Space Wolves and primarisized tem, that would be your successor chapter. They would now have to recruit their future Primaris marines from Fenris, who woud be sent to Garm after passing the tests.,

 

That would work for me :)

That was what I was hoping for. You started off at Fenris worked your way up. Was selected to Primaris program and sent off the the successor chapter, but no.

[Kelborn]

Thing is that Fenris (although being such a nice place to live on and with such a high rate of birth) won't be able to provide enough recruits for two or more chapters.

 

Until now, it kind of makes sense for me. Let me explain:

 

- the Nordic themed worlds: we always had those; Midgardia, Frostheim, Garm were all somehow connected to Fenris; don't know it they are indeed Nordic but that was an assumption by Riku which would make sense to me (IMHO)

- if Cawl took about 1000 or more recruits from Fenris and turned them into Primaris Marines, it'd be ok. Why not? We don't know yet how many Primaris were released from slumber (assumed we might not even get the real numbers at all), so we can have 1k or even way more

- we were close at getting some successor prior to the Battle of the Fang but I assume that Cawl does have way more (and better) resources to work with on Mars; that's why I think he succeeded where even Fabius failed

- about the people of Fenris spread across the enclosed realm: I mean, why not? A lot can happen in 10K years. Don't forget about the staff and soldiers of the Aett (forgot their name...sham on me), their descendants could have spread on several worlds. And we got some decent population on other worlds of Fenris prior to the events of Warzone Fenris as well. Midgardia was populated. Was it on Valdrmani or Svellgard? On one of them did we have some dome cities which were highly populated. So there are indeed a lot of Fenrisians (calling all people of the Fenris system) to recruit from.

- The world soul thing is still a better solution than to let our Rune Priests take their powers from the Warp, revealing them to be hypocrite.

 

I know how you feel. There are still a lot of big question marks in my head as well! That's why I stopped working on a Primaris successor. I'll wait until we got real facts and until we got some real stuff in our hands. Right now, we only have rumors, leaks (which are quoted out of context) and a lot of suggestions and discussions.

 

Let's wait until we got more, ok? :)

[Lord Ragnarok]

Well that might be a bit of a problem as it was stated by GW, BL and FW that Fenris is essential for creating new Wolves.

 

And having two chapters (plus DYI ones) recruiting from Fenris is over the top and way of being reasonable.

This was never stated in the rulebooks however. There are lots of fluff "things" from many of the factions that don't play out in the books. As far as I know, it's only stated in Wraight's books that we can only recruit from Fenris due to the nature of our gene seed.

[Jarl Caldersson]

Thing is that Fenris (although being such a nice place to live on and with such a high rate of birth) won't be able to provide enough recruits for two or more chapters.

 

Until now, it kind of makes sense for me. Let me explain:

 

- the Nordic themed worlds: we always had those; Midgardia, Frostheim, Garm were all somehow connected to Fenris; don't know it they are indeed Nordic but that was an assumption by Riku which would make sense to me (IMHO)

- if Cawl took about 1000 or more recruits from Fenris and turned them into Primaris Marines, it'd be ok. Why not? We don't know yet how many Primaris were released from slumber (assumed we might not even get the real numbers at all), so we can have 1k or even way more

- we were close at getting some successor prior to the Battle of the Fang but I assume that Cawl does have way more (and better) resources to work with on Mars; that's why I think he succeeded where even Fabius failed

- about the people of Fenris spread across the enclosed realm: I mean, why not? A lot can happen in 10K years. Don't forget about the staff and soldiers of the Aett (forgot their name...sham on me), their descendants could have spread on several worlds. And we got some decent population on other worlds of Fenris prior to the events of Warzone Fenris as well. Midgardia was populated. Was it on Valdrmani or Svellgard? On one of them did we have some dome cities which were highly populated. So there are indeed a lot of Fenrisians (calling all people of the Fenris system) to recruit from.

- The world soul thing is still a better solution than to let our Rune Priests take their powers from the Warp, revealing them to be hypocrite.

 

I know how you feel. There are still a lot of big question marks in my head as well! That's why I stopped working on a Primaris successor. I'll wait until we got real facts and until we got some real stuff in our hands. Right now, we only have rumors, leaks (which are quoted out of context) and a lot of suggestions and discussions.

 

Let's wait until we got more, ok?

 

This is part of the lore in the new book, so this isn't waiting anymore for more info, this is what is being read right now by people.

[Hellrender]

Yeh but our opinions.. Those that do not have the book and novels yet, is based on the summaries of others. Which is quite out of context. So waiting until you get the full pic might not be a bad idea. Espwcially since i think that a poasible space wolves codex will also cover how they interact with primaris.

[Kelborn]

@Caldersson: Skip the part about Cawl and the people of Fenris (as these are just suggestions basing on by far released 8th stuff). Everything else I've mentioned comes from previous releases:

 

- Warzone Fenris & Wrath of Magnus

- Battle of the Fang

 

If I misunderstood your post, please excuse me and ignore this one. :)

 

And agreed with Hellrender. We're just suggesting. We no nothing instead of those tiny bits, which were released by GW to catch our interest.

[Wispy]

None of those little bits of lore Calderson mentions are what are crucial  to what make the Space Wolves thematically cool. They're just... Details. And mostly scattered detailes, sometimes contradictory depending on the author you were reading. If you disregarded them to support hobbyists being more creative with the Space Wolves, you're doing the right thing.

 

Fenris IS a thematic pillar of the Space Wolves, however. You need to keep it in focus, somehow, when talking successors. Settling Fenrisians around they expanses of the rift to create a shield of Space Wolves recruiting worlds thst stand as a viking frontier against Chaos? That's cool.

 

Succesor Priests getting sent to Fenris for a time, in a similar way to how Techmarines get sent to Mars, to train and learn to commune with Fenris? That's cool too.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Wispy

[Triszin]

I'm curious if wolf spear is a fleet based chapter, by the name that's what I would assume.

 

Very interested in reading all the new lore for the wolves, even though I know it's going to be a wait

[Valerian]

Thanks, guys.

 

I knew it would be wise to wait for Dark Imperium before working on a Primaris successor. Can't wait to get it by myself.

 

So we got one confirmed successor and the Primaris do feel connected with their parent chapters. Good to know. So the problem will more be one of being accepted by their brothers instead of becoming true Vlka. That changes my plans for my successor's history but I'm happy to know it better.

 

btw. we also got some new unit types mentioned in Dark Imperium as well:

 

- Primaris Librarians (would be interesting to have a pov from a PL regarding Fenris' world soul)

- a new dropship (larger and bulkier than a Thunderhawk) - Overlord

- a seemingly Devastor type unit with missile launchers on their shoulders in the new Gravis armor - Aggressors

- skull helmed infiltrators / scouts - Reivers

What's the role of the Overlord? That sounds interesting.

[Jarl Caldersson]

None of those little bits of lore Calderson mentions are what are crucial  to what make the Space Wolves thematically cool. They're just... Details. And mostly scattered detailes, sometimes contradictory depending on the author you were reading. If you disregarded them to support hobbyists being more creative with the Space Wolves, you're doing the right thing.

 

Fenris IS a thematic pillar of the Space Wolves, however. You need to keep it in focus, somehow, when talking successors. Settling Fenrisians around they expanses of the rift to create a shield of Space Wolves recruiting worlds thst stand as a viking frontier against Chaos? That's cool.

 

Succesor Priests getting sent to Fenris for a time, in a similar way to how Techmarines get sent to Mars, to train and learn to commune with Fenris? That's cool too.

Test of Morkai isnt crucial to making SW? Fenris isnt crucial? Canis Helix isnt crucial? Those are probably the 3 most crucial things in making SWs and their theme. Fenris this odd frozen planet that culls the weak, has psyker power, a weird orbit, and is the home of the Lord of Winter and War. The Test of Morkai, given by the Allfather to Leman Russ so our ancestors could partake and prove us all capable of the Allfather expectations and prove ourselves worthy of being Leman Russ's sons. The Canis Helix within the Test of Morkai our blessing and cursed. Haunting the back of everyone mind is a wolf ready to consume you. We train to control and master it so we are unmatched by our cousins. It gives us a feral senses and strength. They may call us savages for using it, but it is because they are too scared and weak to control it. Like the Wulfen or not it is part of us.

 

These are crucial to a SW it is the essence of what makes us.

[Wispy]

You misunderstood me completely, Calder. You're arguing about fictional minutiae while I am speaking in terms of theme. I do not care if the fictional process of the trial of morkai change so long as it results in the creation of Space Wolves and upholds the faction's central themes.

 

You can take a different journey to get to to the same destination.

 

And yes, Fenris does matter. Its an iconic focus of the faction. I offered some options for it to remain in focus for succesors. In any case, A succesor does not need to have the same relationship or experiences as the main chapter... That's why you have succesors, to have different experiences from the main Chapter, so players can forge their own narratives.

 

You say 'crucial to what make us.' we're not Space wolves ourselves. We're gamers, discussing fiction

 

In any case, we dont know the details so roght now all this fretting is much ado about nothing.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Wispy

[Commander Dawnstar]

I'm curious if wolf spear is a fleet based chapter, by the name that's what I would assume.

 

Very interested in reading all the new lore for the wolves, even though I know it's going to be a wait

 

The Wolfspear is established to watch over a specific warp rift, the one that marked the final battle of the Indomitus Crusade - the Pit of Raukos.

 

I'm not someone well-read on the Wolves so I'm not going to claim proper knowledge of their traditions and ways, but Dark Imperium certainly voices some of your big questions, albeit exploring them nowhere near as deeply as you might like. Very real questions like whether a Primaris Marine can truly call himself a son of Russ if he does not return to Fenris and join the Chapter proper, or if the lords of ice will ever truly accept these outsiders as their own. Naturally no answers are given because nobody knows them yet.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Brightstar

[RikuEru]

As I said, they can Drink from the Cup AND take the Test on Fenris, even if they were recruited elsewhere, just fine.

Throw in more ambuigity about the whole Fenrisian DNA - or, due to Primaris having purer Gene-seeds and 23 Organs - make it an irrelevant problem, or Biologis Magi don't even know why SW Primaris Geneseed works on non Fenrisians.

 

Similiarly the Rune-Priests:

Gathering of all available Rune-Priests among all our Successor-Tribes, every year qhen <Insert Celestial Phenomenon here> happens.

 

The Fang has enough room to HOUSE and supply a Legion. But Fenris isn't big enough for more than one chapter when it comes to suitable recruits. Probably even 100 years after the Wrath of Magnus, population isn't big enough.

 

 

As Wispy said, for now we don't know enough.

We will wait and see.

I doubt GW will leave these things unexplained. They are a company, yes. But manned by fans of all factions, who WILL demand answers just like us.

 

Just as we did when the Wulfen returned. Or when we heard that Fenris was to be by targeted by Exterminatus. Or destroyed by Magnus' Wrath. Or how all these Wolf Lords and Logan were rumored to die.

*yawns*

Remember how useful panicking was back then?

Or how it was stated the Dark Imperium Novel would be "A Guilliman Fan-Fest Extravaganza" (paraphrasing whiners)?

Turns out, it isn't. And turns out it is the first step in explaining the new events, how Primaris work and much more to us.

 

Patience is a Virtue, brother. Even among the hotheaded VLKA FENRYKA...