The Primaris Space Marines and the Space Wolves

[Guest]

I run deathwolves, fluffy made teams based on the information from codexes, curse of Wolfen and the painting guide. There is no primeris marines in the deathwolves.

We dont know that. Remember Deathwolves took HEAVY losses in CotW and FoC. For all we know Deathwolves are all Primaris and not riding wolves anymore but use reivers and Fenrisian Wolves.

[Gherrick]

I'd be ok with primaris TWC :)

[Grimtooth]

Pretty amusing that people can speculate freely on what fluff may come to pass that will make SW Primaris acceptable, but point out issues with the current standing fluff and SW Primaris and suddenly those same people are clamoring for people to wait until the codexes are released to pass judgement.

[Jackalwolf]

All speculation is fair, both ways. We're all known for being one of the most passionate fan bases of any 40k army for a reason :)

 

I personally hope they utilize the opportunity to make 40k versions of 30k space wolves with the Wolfspear and make Russ have been part of it and given freely some candidates.

 

And i definitely hope our primaris are not bland primaris but the equivalent of our grey hunters to normal marines.

 

In any case I'll be ecstatic when they give us models!

[Grimtooth]

All speculation is fair, both ways. We're all known for being one of the most passionate fan bases of any 40k army for a reason :)

 

I personally hope they utilize the opportunity to make 40k versions of 30k space wolves with the Wolfspear and make Russ have been part of it and given freely some candidates.

 

And i definitely hope our primaris are not bland primaris but the equivalent of our grey hunters to normal marines.

 

In any case I'll be ecstatic when they give us models!

I just got to thinking that after losses at Prospero, losses to Alpha Legion b.s., and losses after Great Scouring just how eager or willing would have Russ been to give up his very valuable and much needed recruiting stock. I almost question if this was an unauthorized grab under the auspices of better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

 

And it still is a nagging feeling that it was Bjorn's opinion that Russ would not approve of the Tempering yet somehow he would have been complicit in something so much more expansive as the creation of a new "species" of man; Homo Sapiens, Homo Astartes, and now Homo Primaris.

[crd26a]

 

All speculation is fair, both ways. We're all known for being one of the most passionate fan bases of any 40k army for a reason

 

I personally hope they utilize the opportunity to make 40k versions of 30k space wolves with the Wolfspear and make Russ have been part of it and given freely some candidates.

 

And i definitely hope our primaris are not bland primaris but the equivalent of our grey hunters to normal marines.

 

In any case I'll be ecstatic when they give us models!

I just got to thinking that after losses at Prospero, losses to Alpha Legion b.s., and losses after Great Scouring just how eager or willing would have Russ been to give up his very valuable and much needed recruiting stock. I almost question if this was an unauthorized grab under the auspices of better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

 

And it still is a nagging feeling that it was Bjorn's opinion that Russ would not approve of the Tempering yet somehow he would have been complicit in something so much more expansive as the creation of a new "species" of man; Homo Sapiens, Homo Astartes, and now Homo Primaris.

 

I think you mean Chad Primaris......

[Guest Triszin]

can we please stop with this chad primaris stuff. it's not funny, getting annoying.

 

@ ramses, thats an excellent thought.

 

I am halfway hoping theres a little lore in the upcoming space marine dex for the wolves, so it can bide some time before we got our real dex.

[MaveriK]

It is very intriguing. Something doesn't add up. I don't trust Crawl whatsoever and I'm sure there is a secret faction or two out there within the imperium that wants to kill these new guys.

 

But I would like to know what the current wolf lords have to say about these primaris. I wonder what Bjorn would say. I'd like to know which characters if any, goes for the upgrade to primaris.

 

Either way, I hope we get SW novels with the new successor chapter involved. Should be entertaining. But the way things are going, I don't see Russ coming back soon...

[Filius]

 

*snip*

 

Should be entertaining. But the way things are going, I don't see Russ coming back soon...

 

Well … (this is kinda off topic already, but it adds to the question how the Primaris will be accepted, so I post it anyway) ... if I am not mistaken, we'll be seeing a second Traitor Primarch return, with Mortarion. So after that I think the chances are good for another loyal Primarch to return. I think the  appearance (and disappearance) of Vulkan in "The War of the Beast" speaks for Vulkan. But on the other Hand, hardly anyone plays Salamanders (sorry to say that). And a Leman Russ Not-so-mini-Miniature probably would sell well (what Games Workshop probably can seen on the Sales of the 30k Primarchs). So I would say, the chances are not bad. Aaand … didn't find Grimnar some kind of important clue at the beginning of "Legends of the Dark Millennium: Space Wolves" … ? I think we didn't learn, what it was …

[Jackalwolf]

 

All speculation is fair, both ways. We're all known for being one of the most passionate fan bases of any 40k army for a reason :)

 

I personally hope they utilize the opportunity to make 40k versions of 30k space wolves with the Wolfspear and make Russ have been part of it and given freely some candidates.

 

And i definitely hope our primaris are not bland primaris but the equivalent of our grey hunters to normal marines.

 

In any case I'll be ecstatic when they give us models!

I just got to thinking that after losses at Prospero, losses to Alpha Legion b.s., and losses after Great Scouring just how eager or willing would have Russ been to give up his very valuable and much needed recruiting stock. I almost question if this was an unauthorized grab under the auspices of better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

 

And it still is a nagging feeling that it was Bjorn's opinion that Russ would not approve of the Tempering yet somehow he would have been complicit in something so much more expansive as the creation of a new "species" of man; Homo Sapiens, Homo Astartes, and now Homo Primaris.

That is an extremely good point. And the narrative of Bjorn condoning it behind Russ would be... incredible. Please GW do that.

[Grimtooth]

 

 

All speculation is fair, both ways. We're all known for being one of the most passionate fan bases of any 40k army for a reason :)

 

I personally hope they utilize the opportunity to make 40k versions of 30k space wolves with the Wolfspear and make Russ have been part of it and given freely some candidates.

 

And i definitely hope our primaris are not bland primaris but the equivalent of our grey hunters to normal marines.

 

In any case I'll be ecstatic when they give us models!

I just got to thinking that after losses at Prospero, losses to Alpha Legion b.s., and losses after Great Scouring just how eager or willing would have Russ been to give up his very valuable and much needed recruiting stock. I almost question if this was an unauthorized grab under the auspices of better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

 

And it still is a nagging feeling that it was Bjorn's opinion that Russ would not approve of the Tempering yet somehow he would have been complicit in something so much more expansive as the creation of a new "species" of man; Homo Sapiens, Homo Astartes, and now Homo Primaris.

That is an extremely good point. And the narrative of Bjorn condoning it behind Russ would be... incredible. Please GW do that.

Think you misunderstood me.

 

Bjorn said he would have destroyed the Tempering if he had known about it because it was not what Russ intended. This leads me to believe that The Primaris would also not be as he intended and thus rejected.

 

Looks like Reivers might be the only Primaris unit in the current build that our rules mesh with.

[Guest]

The tempering was removing a piece of crucial genetic coding that was started since the test of morkai.

 

Primaris are adding a few extra organs AND correcting the genetic coding to how it was during 30/31k. The genetic coding has mutated and became weaker. If anything Cawl is putting the Marines back to how they were when Russ was around. The extra organs are the only difference but they do not mess with the geneseed. I very much doubt Russ or Bjorn would care about a few extra organs during the initiation stage, so long as the geneseed is not manipulated because of them.

 

So if we have a Fenrisian initiate that grew up on Fenris and then went through all the old+new organ transplants. Followed by the SW indocternation, not Cawls/Girlymans, then took the geneseed and participated in the test of Morkai, i see no reason for anyone to object to this.

 

The SW's rarely turn down a weapon if it is codex compliant or not so long as it is not chaos tainted. Even if it is chaos tainted we end up purifying it and using it to smack Magnus back the warp. The Primaris are a new weapon that we have no reason to decline if it follows our rules and customs.

 

The issue right now is the gear of the Primaris, will they be only codex-compliant gear which doesnt work for us. The second being the Wolfspear and how they do their recruiting especially their rune priests. Without a connection to Fenris they are no Rune Priesta but Librarians that the SW descend upon like Black Templars upon any other Psyker in their ranks.

 

WE NEED TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. To work ourselves into a frenzy of hate and spit is pointless. What if GW comes around and says "Okay now that we are all ready with 8th edition and we have balanced out some stuff. DA, SW, BA you can upgrade X units for Y points and get +1W, +1A and use the both Primaris specific and that unit specific gear." So a WG could become a primaris for Y points and use all of our current gear options OR the intercessor options. It would be glorious to see 10 Primaris WG with 20 wounds, and 30 attacks wielding Frost Swords, Storm Bolter, and Storm Shields. Or our termies to get 3 wounds each.

 

Point is wait. We do not know the future of the non compliant codex. We have seen the intercessors drop to 3 in a box but the only unit we have right now is 5. We also know the index's are not the complete info for our armies. Something is changing about the Primaris and we must wait.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Caldersson

[MaveriK]

Did 30K Wolves do the test of morkai? was the axe of morkai codex compliant? also I remember reading something about a sword being gifted by a SM chapter to Ragnar but Ragnar laughed and turned it down.

 

I just though Bjorn didn't want successors period. All because of the ill-fated wolf brothers.

 

Also I got my two primaris marines. I butchered the lieutenant LOL it was a fun experiment. Just glad the regular weapons are still sized approximately with them. Gonna have to wait until actual box sets of them come out to do a proper jotunn pack.

Edited July 9, 2017 by MaveriK

[Guest]

The test of morkai started shortly after the founding of russ when his jarls wanted to join him. The Allfather made the cup of wulfen, the first step of test of morkai containing the geneseed and canis helix, but said none of the jarls would survive. Most didnt but even the Emperor was surprised that any survived. Since then all partake of the cup and thus the test of morkai.

 

Axe of Morkai is not codex compliant as I said above we rarely turn down weapons if they are codex compliant or not. The Ragnar thing didnt have anything to deal with the sword being codex compliant.

 

During battle of the fang a wolf priest wanted to remove the canis helix. When Bjorn found out he was upset. I dont know his stance on successor chapter only that successor chapters have some lore issues to overcome. This could be resolved by them recruiting from Fenris, or them going the way of the Wolf Brothers causing the SW to get mad at Girlyman for losing more geneseed and against their wishes.

[Grimtooth]

We have 30k/31k Wolves and the are nothing like Primaris at all. The only thing even slightly similar between the two is unit structure/role. Cawl/RG didn't recreate the Marines of old, they created a wholly new breed of Marines through genetic manipulation and tinkering.

 

And the wolf priest in Battle of the Fang was not removing anything genetic at all. He explains that the Wolves would still retain all the traits and abilities of the Wolves, but the degradation into Wulfen would be removed. That was it. It has nothing to do with Test of Morkai or Cup of the Wulfen.

[Guest]

I think you are taking 2 things and mixing them together. 1 is to clean the geneseed from its degraded 40k state back to a more pure 30/31k state. 2 was the Primaris upgrade that does not tamper with the geneseed.

 

The Priest was tampering with the geneseed and was planning on removing or manipulating the part that turned SW into Wulfen, but not the traits. These traits are not part of the Canis Helix as Russ has the enlarged canine teeth, the thick hair and skin, as we know Russ does have these and he never partook of the Cup of Wulfen, so these traits are not directly tied to the wulfen part of the geneseed. This is even further tampering with the geneseed then even cawl ever did.

[Grimtooth]

Like your last couple of posts show that you really don't understand the whole connection between geneseed and origin of the Canis Helix.

[Guest]

By the Allfather...

 

You say the priest wasnt tampering with the traits.

 

-Battle of the Fang, Chapter 9. Karekborn said that the tempering test subject were unnatural looking and lacked any of the feral traits that the SW had.

 

You say the priest wasnt removing parts of the geneseed.

 

-Battle of the Fang, chapter 19. The priest admits that his experiments are unstable and he is close to figure out what sequence to remove.

 

The test of Morkai is heavily explains in SW Codex 5th Ed. That states the canis helix was in the cup of the wulfen.

 

-Space Wolf Omnibus, unknown chapter my book is packed away for moving. The Canis Helix is not a requirement for having the SW feral traits. Russ had these traits but never partook of the cup. The first Wulfen and the first time of the Canis Helix being recorded is all when Russ gave the Cup of the Wulfen to his jarls.

 

I have may hace one more reference in the primarch series once i find it.

[Valerian]

Russ didn't need to drink from the Cup of Wulfen to get the Canis Helix, it was derived from his genetic material - it literally started with him, and originated from him.

 

Maybe this old thread would help you:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292238-the-curse-of-the-wulfen-thread/

[Guest]

Russ didn't need to drink from the Cup of Wulfen to get the Canis Helix, it was derived from his genetic material - it literally started with him, and originated from him.

Maybe this old thread would help you:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292238-the-curse-of-the-wulfen-thread/

I can only see your post from 2014 and it does not match the current book Primarch: Leman Russ. In chapter 2, i believe still looking for my copy, it discuss how bulveye great company was the first to be affected by the curse and none outside his great company knew about it not even Russ.

 

It also does not make sense since the test of morkai in the book states they become a wolf-like creature before proceeding with being inducted into the SW's. Unless the Emperor had a bunch of huge wolves running around Terra when he implanted the geneseed.

[Valerian]

 

Russ didn't need to drink from the Cup of Wulfen to get the Canis Helix, it was derived from his genetic material - it literally started with him, and originated from him.

Maybe this old thread would help you:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292238-the-curse-of-the-wulfen-thread/

I can only see your post from 2014 and it does not match the current book Primarch: Leman Russ. In chapter 2, i believe still looking for my copy, it discuss how bulveye great company was the first to be affected by the curse and none outside his great company knew about it not even Russ.

 

This is just another example of Black Library authors screwing up decades worth of established Studio fluff. Bulvye has been in several BL novels, but the Wolf Lord of the 13th Company was Jorin Bloodfang, and Russ consolidated all of the Space Wolves that started getting the Mark of the Wulfen into his GC on purpose. This has been repeated in multiple versions of the SW codex, as well as several White Dwarf articles that elaborate on the topic.

 

 

EDIT: By the way, here is another thread that is linked in our Resources thread with a ton of information on the Wulfen.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Valerian

[Grimtooth]

Thanks Val, I didn't have time for his weekend to search for the threads.

 

The Cup of the Wulfen has always been the ceremonial method of just one part of the implantation process of the SW geneseed into SW. Despite all the hocus pocus surrounding it in the lore, it does not examine the aspirants soul for purity.

 

The same applies to the Test of Morkai, which is just an extreme stressor event to see if the aspirant is capable of even absorbing/adapting with the Canis Helix. After all, severe battle stress or injury is one of the triggers into Wulfen state.

 

This isn't the first time, nor won't be the last, but to breakdown;

 

The geneseed is a directly derived from Russ. He is the source material. Of course that Geneseed is chock full of that good old Russ DNA. Now the structure of human DNA is known as a double HELIX. Oh so a Helix is one of a pair of a DNA structure? So the Canis Helix is just part of the DNA structure that makes up the DNA soup of Russ' geneseed. For comparison think back to the DNA structure of LeeLoo Dallas in the Fifth Element.

 

Leeeeeeloooooo Dallas!

[Valerian]

Some info on the Reivers:  https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/10/tactica-primaris-space-marine-reivers-july-10gw-homepage-post-2/

 

 

"The shock grenade, in particular, makes the Reivers very dangerous, as it prevents enemies from firing overwatch and subtracts 1 from their hit rolls."

 

Now we're talking.

 

"The signature rule of the Reivers is called Terror Troops and represents their terrifying presence on the battlefield. In-game, this forces nearby enemy units to subtract 1 from their Leadership."

Edited July 10, 2017 by Valerian

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

The drivers look good and fit Space Wolves well. O like their stalker in the shadows vibe

[Jackalwolf]

Yep I'll be getting myself two units of these!