Our very own chapter focus! :>

[JoshTheStampede]

This new chapter tactic actually had me thinking about other marines.  If Raven Guard get something as good as -1 hit at 12"+... what are the others getting?

 

I could see Imperial Fists getting +1 hit with bolters.

I could see Salamanders getting something like +1 to wound rolls with all flamers/meltas.

I could see White Scars getting charge on the turn you advanced with all bikers.  

 

So how many of you are going to go into wallet-empty mode on reivers?

 

They implied with the Ultras article that stuff wouldn't be limited to only one kind of unit or weapon - so bolter-only or flamer-only is unlikely. WS getting to charge after advancing is almost a lock though. 

[Mr. Poe]

Hmm...these all seem suspiciously strong.

 

The -1 to hit is really good throughout the entire game and the strat allowing you the deploy units 9" away is also really strong (depending on how many CP's it costs).

 

Kind of make me wonder what other chapter are going to be getting...

[Race Bannon]

Frankly, I want to see the Codex before I cough out more money I shouldn't spend.  If Reivers can keep up with assault units, then they may be a contender.  But if points shift a little here and there, then I may get more into Inceptors because ... flying infantry.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I think a wallet empty is in order for me for Reivers if the Raven Guard stratagem is not prohibitively expensive to use.  I could see 2 would scouts assaulting on turn 1 to messing up overwatch be super strong and thematic.  The models look really good too.

[duz_]

I was almost going to buy some of the push fit ones because they looked kewl.

 

Im so glad I didn't these boxed ones look even better! 2 boxes sounds like enough ... when I get around to it. Wallet is already empty and some! :(

[Alcyon]

@Kua.

 

I wouldn't say the CT Is overpowered. Absolutely fluffy, and its strong, sure, but to get full use of it you need to be around 19" away depending on the enemy unit's movement. That's a fairly long stretch for a jump pack unit to be able to charge in the course of one turn, and a fair distance to cover in order to get up close to an objective.

 

Isn't jump pack basic move 12"? A charge of 7" is the average for 2d6, plus you can either run Shrike or a Librarian for a re-roll, giving you a 58.33% chance on the first roll plus (41.66% chance of needing a re-roll)(58.33% chance of the re-roll succeeding) = 84% chance to successfully charge 7" or more. Seems pretty good to me. The only question remaining is whether you want to Deep Strike t1 and try to advance into cover, or just run up the board from cover to cover.

 

I think the 12" shooting protection has the potential to really change the gameplan for RG. You can set up your Devastators or Sternguard or whatever in optimal positions with the new stratagem, and then keep enemy units at bay with screens of scouts to play 12" keep-away or absorb charges and then fall back, leaving them vulnerable to your shooting. The catch there is you don't want to be walking backwards with your heavy weapons and getting BS 4+ every turn, so you kind of want the option to castle up. 

 

It's nice that the stratagems give you the option to deploy this way once you know your opponent, so against a slow army (IG footsloggers, Tau without Devilfish, etc.) you could deploy up-field to claim objectives more easily, but then if they're Tyranids or Orks or something you can deploy as far back as possible and buy extra shooting phases. This build would make Lias Issodon worse, as he'd kind of force your army into the first plan and be wasted in the second.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Alcyon

[JoshTheStampede]

True, the ability to wait until you see the enemy before deciding to pay for super-infiltrate does take a bit of shine off Lias, whom you pay for even if you don't want to use his ability. 

[Extropian]

Issodon certainly isn't wasted in the second. Bubble of re-roll to hit for all those hard to hit long range shooters, and a really nasty long ranged gun of his own. You don't HAVE to use his ambush, especially since the Stratgem gives you some of that option anyway.

 

Plus, at range if he CAN use the rg tactics, he's damned near unkillable...-1 to hit and a 0+ save in cover!

 

Also, there's literally no downside to keeping Lias off board on his own. You can deploy him turn 1 wherever he is most useful, and still shoot with him and give his bubble to nearby units. He doesn't even get -1 to hit since Malice is an Assault weapon.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Extropian

[WAR]

ohhh ohhhh not me.....splitting a box with a friend since i have 6 of the push fit ones. 

 

Plus Im already at 2 elites (Ancient and Reivers) which leaves 4 spots open for Redemptor  Dreads (planning on 2), Apothecary and 1 open spot

[Mr. Poe]

You can alpha strike even harder now with a Raptors + RG list. Between the 3 free drop pods Lias provides...Shrike with actual drop pods and now deploying via the strat...

[Extropian]

You can alpha strike even harder now with a Raptors + RG list. Between the 3 free drop pods Lias provides...Shrike with actual drop pods and now deploying via the strat...

Don't forget you have to have half your army on the table though, at least in matched play.

[JoshTheStampede]

 

You can alpha strike even harder now with a Raptors + RG list. Between the 3 free drop pods Lias provides...Shrike with actual drop pods and now deploying via the strat...

Don't forget you have to have half your army on the table though, at least in matched play.

 

 

That's why god invented tarantula sentry guns. 

[Extropian]

Fair point ;)

 

Plus, you'll want those nice shooty heavy weapons units and Dreads already deployed which helps.

[Biscuittzz]

I'll be the one to burst the Raptors using RG chapter tactics bubble.

 

I can't see it happening, with Issodon having a specific keyword RAPTORS. I'm of the belief that FW will do chapter tactics for them. 

 

They'll probably get a modified version though. Something more inclined to their shooting but possibly keeping the -1 to hit as well.

 

On the Reivers debate, I actually don't like any of the skull helms. Rest of the model is great. Give me 10 mkvi beakies or 10 30k destroyer helmets and they'll look unbelievable.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Biscuittzz

[Extropian]

I don't think Successors will get their own sadly, short of some very famous ones like Templars. But I also wouldn't be surprised to find out they haven't thought it through and you can't take Issodon in a RG tactics army, at least to start with (sounds like FAQ fodder to me).

[Biscuittzz]

Issodon wouldn't benefit from it since he doesn't have the RAVEN GUARD keyword. And no RG units would be able to use his 3 free drop ability because they don't have RAPTORS keyword. Unless I'm corrected.

ohhh ohhhh not me.....splitting a box with a friend since i have 6 of the push fit ones. 

 

Plus Im already at 2 elites (Ancient and Reivers) which leaves 4 spots open for Redemptor  Dreads (planning on 2), Apothecary and 1 open spot

 

4 open elites slots means 4 Redemptor Dreads........nothing else. 

[Extropian]

Oh, I agree. Unless there is some kind of rule in the Codex allowing Successors, it won't work, which is what I said initially.

Wouldn't be surprised if Forge World FAQ it though if they get asked about it.

[Alcyon]

The RAW we've seen so far seem to imply that Successors will get to use their founder CT - Crimson Fists as previously mentioned is a good example but I recall seeing generic rules for it that allow this but block the use of Special Characters. We have Gabriel Seth as a Flesh Tearers HQ which otherwise uses BA rules, Pedro Kantor, etc. 

I think Lias Issodon will be similar, OR FW will re-write his ruleset in an FAQ after C:SM drops to make his infiltrate option less painful if you choose not to use it/make it synergize better with RG CT. This makes sense to me and I doubt custom FW Raptors rules would be as balanced or fluffy as the RG ones judging from their past attempts... Though Raptors might be special snowflakes.

[JoshTheStampede]

FW chapters may be specifically excluded and given their own, but they clearly will have rules for successor chapters - just like there are in the Index for Blood Angel and Dark Angel successors. 

 

Raptors (and Issodon) using Raven Guard rules is no different from Flesh Tearers and Gabriel Seth using Blood Angel ones. 

[Extropian]

Valid points all round. I guess we wait and see.

 

Regardless, I feel like the poor Ravenguard themselves are getting a bit neglected in all this Raptor talk :D

[mertbl]

I like the combo of shrike and a librarian with the relic or trait to deny overwatch. Librarian goes for might of hero's on shrike. Leading a couple big squads of marines. Should shred most things without an invul. Try for null zone too and really smash someone.

[Mr. Poe]

The fact that the strategem allows you to deploy units within 9" is exactly why the alpha strike will hurt even more now. Those units count as being on the field. 

 

If you have first turn you can really cripple the other guy really hard. The Raven Guard / Raptors keywords will not be an issue either. You can take all the units you need to in separate detachments. 

 

Lias + 3 Dev squads in one detachment then Shrike with some Dev/centurions/sternguard in another detachment. Each chapter has access to reroll all failed hits and can deploy all their firepower 9" away. 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Mr. Poe

[Biscuittzz]

Don't believe it has been said yet, perhaps it was, but the jump pack relic also says "moves at blistering speed" as well as re-rolling charges.

 

Gives more movement than a normal jp possibly?

[Mr. Poe]

Don't believe it has been said yet, perhaps it was, but the jump pack relic also says "moves at blistering speed" as well as re-rolling charges.

 

Gives more movement than a normal jp possibly?

 

This would be awesome. Maybe 14-16" like some bikes?

[duz_]

So I'm curious and I dont recall seeing it anywhere.

 

Do you only get CTs if your entire Army is the same or just the specific Detachment?

On a side note is there any mention of "ally matrices" anywhere? What's stopping you from mixing and matching factions by detachment?