Our very own chapter focus! :>

[Jacques Corbin]

Remember brothers, the negative modifiers apply with regards to plasma overheating too. With night fighting in effect, even if an overcharged Plasma Cannon rolls a 3 to hit, the model is still removed as a casualty.

[Alcyon]

 

 

The thrust of my argument is that you're not going to slowly advance up the field with your assault units when you have all the tools to be assaulting turn 1, and once you're fighting, they're most likely not going to be outside 12". Shadow Masters doesn't synergize with assault units for us, simply because we can bypass a lot of the attrition.

 

I think you'll be in combat on turn 1 a lot less often and a lot less effectively than it might seem, at least judging from the batreps I've seen so far. But yeah, if you want to run a 100% alpha strike/assault list, Shadow Masters isn't the best choice. That's more of a Blood Angel or BC thing if you ask me.

 

 

-Iron Hands are...ok? You're more durable than anyone but RG with Shadow Masters, but it drops substantially as soon as multiple damage comes in, which it always does. 

 

It is pretty spicy that it applies to mortal wounds, and I think the fact that it makes 1 dmg weapons worse against you isn't nothing. There are still a lot of those out there. It's interesting too that it works in kind of the opposite way to a Captain's re-roll ones aura, in that the worse your save is, the bigger improvement you get from a 6+ FNP. It takes IH Terminators from a 5+ invulnerable to almost a 4+, and a 6+ save vs. AP-3 into a 5+ save. In that way, the IH CT gets better the higher the opponent's AP is, and kind of encourages you to take Terminators instead of Storm Shields in a way.

 

Anyways, not RG content

Edited July 19, 2017 by Alcyon

[Darkthorns]

Somehow that makes sense though. Look at the Raven Guard CT: in a game, the CT should work for vehicles because that would be utterly awesome. But to simulate common sense, should a vehicle be hard to shoot at based on that description? Flyers sure, whatever. But a Rhino?

 

 

Could be a stealth variant for us only, kind of like the shadowhawk.

[Race Bannon]

I need to see where this Shadowhawk comes from ...

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Got to messing around with battlescribe for the first time since the chapter focus.  I feel so liberated now that it is possible to use deployment tricks without relying on jump infantry so much.  I really dont like assault marines much it turns out.  I kept making lists with them just because it is the RG thing to do.  I like vanguard vets a bit more but still not so much since the kit that GW makes is really un-Raven Guardy with all the silly golden bling and halos.  

 

What I'm really liking is tac squads in drop pods slamming down turn 1 behind a couple of dreads or terminators with storm shields using the new strategem with a bunch of snipers/devs just behind midfield for fire support.  Then have Shrike deepstriking somewhere to lend his reroll aura.  Now that is good stuff... unless you get seized on and instantly lose the game :D:D:D:D:D

[Withershadow]

The biggest advantage of the Raven Guard stratagem deployment method seems to be that it happens before the game starts.  Therefore unlike typical deep strikers, you can actually move closer and thus deliver flamers/meltaguns/more reliable charges with impunity.  The risk is that if the opponent seizes initiative, those forward elements are as good as dead.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Yeah... makes you wonder why GW didnt go with a I go, You go system.  That would cut down on alpha strikes and instant losses based on nothing other than pure chance.

[KGatch113]

The biggest advantage of the Raven Guard stratagem deployment method seems to be that it happens before the game starts.  Therefore unlike typical deep strikers, you can actually move closer and thus deliver flamers/meltaguns/more reliable charges with impunity.  The risk is that if the opponent seizes initiative, those forward elements are as good as dead.

 

It seems in tournament play many TO's are going to a +1 to roll off to go first, rather than an auto go first, so you have to chance 2 die rolls to get a first turn charge. 

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

The biggest advantage of the Raven Guard stratagem deployment method seems to be that it happens before the game starts.  Therefore unlike typical deep strikers, you can actually move closer and thus deliver flamers/meltaguns/more reliable charges with impunity.  The risk is that if the opponent seizes initiative, those forward elements are as good as dead.

 

It seems in tournament play many TO's are going to a +1 to roll off to go first, rather than an auto go first, so you have to chance 2 die rolls to get a first turn charge. 

 

Does that roll off happen before or after deployment?

[RG-Predators]

I approve of the new chapter tactics. Not sure how I want to use them yet, but very fluffy, and has the potential to be very nasty when utilized correctly.

[9x19 Parabellum]

You can still hedge your bets, though, even with initiative roll off.  If you shadow-master anything with a jet pack, you can be 19" and still have reliable turn 1 charge range.  That's a lot of room to put your models either: 1) out of range of some of the guns you want to avoid, but in range of the ones you want to charge and/or 2) behind some los-blocking terrain.

[Darkthorns]

I need to see where this Shadowhawk comes from ...

 

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Shadowhawk

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Shadowhawk

 

Lemme know if I messed up the links somehow.

[Andrés Pacheco]

Does Strike From the Shadows potentially give RG a modified null deployment? Your Strike... units aren't in reserve, so you could reserve half your army, and Strike the other half (potentially, accounting for available CPs etc).

 

Not saying this would be particularly effective necessarily, it certainly might conflict with using their chapter tactic for instance. But it's still fluffy and quite cool and allows a more aggressive surprise attack to be launched. In fact, maybe a cool way to run Carcharodons.

[duz_]

Yeh I've been wondering that too. I guess well have to see how the rules are written. It might specify that they are considered in reserves if you use the ability. Hopefully not!! ;)

[Andrés Pacheco]

:::becomes the night::::

 

:::crosses fingers::::

[autek mor]

time to save up for that twin stormcannon leviathan for that juicy -1 to hit. i need not fear ork rokkit spam anymore.

[Jacques Corbin]

Hey, now we have discussed the negative modifiers to hit affecting overcharged Plasma weapons as 2s counting as 1s, so they go boom, but do rolls that are modified down to 1 count for a captain's buff bubble of rerolling 1s?

[SkimaskMohawk]

No, because you reroll before modifiers

No, because you reroll before modifiers

[mertbl]

I didn't think night fighting still existed?

 

Remember brothers, the negative modifiers apply with regards to plasma overheating too. With night fighting in effect, even if an overcharged Plasma Cannon rolls a 3 to hit, the model is still removed as a casualty.

[Jacques Corbin]

Yes, it is in the rulebook.

[Nusquam]

We need to see the wording on the strategem and if going forward the Developers Commentary of reserving units and alternate deployments counting as drops stick. That will determine if we have and advantage for going first.

 

As for events adding the first turn roll of with a +1 i really dont like it. The game is designed for this current deployment. Feels like too tangent of a charge

[mertbl]

I only see it in 1 maelstrom mission and the "battle zone: night fight". I don't think it will come up very often.

 

Yes, it is in the rulebook.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

We need to see the wording on the strategem and if going forward the Developers Commentary of reserving units and alternate deployments counting as drops stick. That will determine if we have and advantage for going first.

 

As for events adding the first turn roll of with a +1 i really dont like it. The game is designed for this current deployment. Feels like too tangent of a charge

Long War had a podcast discussing this.  They were against the change since how the game has been designed hasnt been sufficiently tested to make sweeping changes.  I didnt really understand the details of the debate at the time since I had not read 8th edition rules too carefully but their main point stuck with me.  How can you alter gameplay when there has been no gameplay??  Even now with only a handful of tournies it is too soon for big changes since no counter play has had a chance to develop to respond to elite alphastrike armies built around going first.  If it turns out that you really cant design an army to counter an beardy alphastrike list then some wholesale change is needed.   Something like  "I go, You go"  is worth considering since it negates alpha strikes and seize :cuss.  Is it really fun to face armies that are designed to and very effective at wiping you out on turn 1?  Conversely, is it really fun to lose games with an elite force because your opponent rolled a 6?  Really??  

Edited July 19, 2017 by Race Bannon
Do not dodge swear filter.

[mertbl]

We haven't played the game much, but the push is coming from the playtesters. Frontline is obviously the most vocal because of their podcast, but they say the other playtesters had the same feelings, that a highly elite 4-6 drop list going first was too powerful. GW just chose to ignore them. I haven't played enough that it mattered. The other thing is that on day 1 of going live I'm sure more games were played than in all of playtesting. They were testing mechanics and we are testing to break it.

 

I believe they playtested with the same rulebook we have in our hands. Just due to the number of errata and mistakes in it. I bet we see a generals handbook for 40k before the end of the year.

[Mr. Poe]

I actually agree with the Long War guys on this front. The very same tournament organizers that were supposedly play testing the game for months **cough Frontline Gaming cough** are the very same people proposing changes to the rules. I find that a little silly.

 

The big issue here is 3 model LOW list such as Baneblades or Knight lists that essentially can guarantee first turn; people are having titty attacks. I personally don't see a problem with this as this type of list will have a hard time dealing with target saturation i.e. spam lists, horde lists or gaming tables with heavy LOS blocking terrain.

 

That being said, alpha strike lists always existed and always will exist for as long as there is a first turn. That's the very nature of the game. Alpha strike lists have hard counters just like every other list. Sure it will not be fun to play against them with the average non-competitive / non-tournament list but the same can be said for a 200 model horde list that is designed to win through objectives / attrition.