Our very own chapter focus! :>

[SkimaskMohawk]

The play testers didn't like the rule though....that makes it slightly less silly

[Mr. Poe]

Only slightly. 

 

It's still a knee jerk reaction to change basic game rules barely a month after the game came out. 

 

It would be nice for someone to show up to a W40K tournament and actually play a game of W40K. 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Mr. Poe

[MajorNese]

As for the Raptors, there's an article about successor tactics which essentially says "choose whatever tactic you like". Unless FW decides to release Raptors rules, using the RG ones and taking Issodon (the only unit ruleset fixed on the Raptors) seems fair game.

 

Also, the Salamanders faction focus repeats the dreadnought thing: "Like the other Chapter Tactics, Master Artisans will benefit Dreadnoughts as well," which will turn our Ironclads into, well...smoke-and-shadow-clads. Maybe I should model one as sneaking on its toes...

[duz_]

Hrmm I think all the rules modifications debate might be slightly off topic from the OP.

All valid points though and I certainly have my opinion on it too. Perhaps start a separate thread in Amicus?

 

Back to OP I still think the RG have the best CT and strategem. It will benefit both Assault and Ranged units.

I do look forward to having my VVs and ASMs terrorizing my opponents. Even my bikes which I thought were fairly lack luster have a new shine to them.

Speaking of which I need to build those VVs... maybe after I finish Cypher (trying to get through my backlog! He's the last of that Triumphiate(?) I haven't built.)

[Mr. Poe]

I agree, they are the best of the bunch. Camo cloak sniper scouts just got a whole lot better. 

[MajorNese]

Back to OP I still think the RG have the best CT and strategem. It will benefit both Assault and Ranged units.

Yep, reduces incoming fire even more than IH's tactic, but is limited to ranged attacks above 12". I'm currently building lists for the local campaign (+250p every month), but this leaves one problem...as it seems not to work on vehicles (besides dreads), it actively discourages using transports. Looks like I need to build a lot more footsloggers, jumpers and bikers to fill the points.

[SkimaskMohawk]

He-who-is-don is definitely a great pick, and can really turn up the pressure for shooting alpha strike lists and adds some more manoeuvreing to list.

 

That being said, do we know if successors get to use relics and such, or if they're limited to just the tactics

[Withershadow]

Remember you can burn command points to re-roll seize initiative, or even the first turn dice-off!

[duz_]

I'm currently building lists for the local campaign (+250p every month), but this leaves one problem...as it seems not to work on vehicles (besides dreads), it actively discourages using transports. Looks like I need to build a lot more footsloggers, jumpers and bikers to fill the points.

That sounds perfect for RG though! Quick to deploy and effective. ;)

To be fair chapter tactics didn't work on vehicles in last edition either (except for 1 exception?), so youre not losing anything.

-1 to hit all games when >12" vs T1 shrouded is a huge boon!

 

Scouts with camo will be obnoxious! Even against high volumes of fire like a Wyvren! -1 to hit with a 2+ save! Sniper scouts have purpose again! Haha

[Alcyon]

I agree the CT kind of discourages vehicles, which I think makes sense (though I do pray for the Whispercutter.)

I think there's an argument that it also gently discourages you from playing any Rapid Fire weapons with a 24" range, mostly Bolters and Plasma Guns, because you lose the -1 to hit if you want to be in optimal range for them. You either want your jump pack models to be more than 18" away from the enemy in preparation to charge, or for your ground guys to be able to shoot from more than 18" away (enemy move 6" + fire within 12" range.) I don't think Tactical marines are very Raven Guard-y personally so this is kind of fitting.

With that logic, I think Primaris marines (both Intercessors and Hellblasters) are better, as well as Sternguard. I also like Grav-Cannons more, especially from a Drop Pod or deployed with our stratagem, though it remains to be seen whether it'll be better to save the Grav-Cannons having to hit on a 4+ for having moved t1, or potentially give VVs a more guaranteed t1 charge - though that seems too good to be real, honestly.

 

My theorycrafting right now is something like:

 

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [86 PL, 1500pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaplain [6 PL, 90pts]: Bolt pistol, Jump Pack

 

Kayvaan Shrike [8 PL, 150pts]

 

+ Troops +

 

Scout Squad [6 PL, 75pts]

Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle

4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

Scout Squad [6 PL, 75pts]

Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle

4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

Scout Squad [6 PL, 75pts]

Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle

4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

 

+ Elites +

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 90pts]: Jump Pack

Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword

Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword

Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword

Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword

Veteran Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 215pts]: Jump Pack

Space Marine Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Space Marine Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Space Marine Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Space Marine Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Veteran Sergeant: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 80pts]

Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword

Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword

Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword

Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword

Veteran Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Scout Bike Squad [5 PL, 86pts]

2x Scout Biker: 2x Twin boltgun

Scout Biker Sergeant: Power axe, Twin boltgun

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Centurion Devastator Squad [17 PL, 354pts]

Centurion: Centurion missile launcher, Grav-cannon and grav-amp

Centurion: Centurion missile launcher, Grav-cannon and grav-amp

Centurion Sergeant: Centurion missile launcher, Grav-cannon and grav-amp

 

+ Flyer +

 

Xiphon Interceptor[11 PL, 210pts]: Two twin lascannon, Xiphon missile battery

Edited July 20, 2017 by Alcyon

[KGatch113]

Remember you can burn command points to re-roll seize initiative, or even the first turn dice-off!

 

 

Quote the page that says you can do that? 

[Alcyon]

Just added a Stormraven, Company Ancient, Apothecary, Techmarine and an Ironclad to the above list for an even 2k ;)

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

Remember you can burn command points to re-roll seize initiative, or even the first turn dice-off!

 

 

Quote the page that says you can do that? 

 

 

"You can reroll any single dice" No restrictions on that. It's why the objective roll is so contentious because you reroll to lose, gain a monopoly over the majority of them, roll for deployment, reroll bad ones and deploy

[duz_]

It sounds like GW could FAQ that in future. However that's also for another discussion.

 

I think Alcyon youre right though the 30" range on the Primaris marines means they can be within rapid fire range and still benefit from -1 to hit. Although in all likelihood your opponent would just close those 3" the following turn and you'd lose it.

[SkimaskMohawk]

No cloaks on the snipers?

[Nusquam]

I've been thinking a lot on what the rules for Raptors and Carcharodons will be based on the RG stuff revealed. Taking into account the other two chapters and how strong the CT, WLT, Stratagem, and relic will be...

 

I'm betting Raptors will use the same CT and maybe a different stratagem. It's basically what Raptors did already as-is; infiltrate and ambush all sneaky-like. Maybe the same stratagem to infiltrate but their CT might be something like:

 

Legendary Marksmen: When determining which models take wounds from a shooting attack by a unit with this rule the Raptors player may choose which model instead of that units controller.

 

Maybe the CT will stay the same and something like the above will be the stratagem. Either way would be fluffy.

 

As for the relic and WLT I'm imaging either a unique sniper rifle, stalker boltgun, or shotgun that's quality. As for a WLT maybe the WL can always target characters and determine which model takes wounds or just inflicts additional mortal wounds on a 6 to hit.

 

Carachardons will be totally unique. I'm betting Reavers of the Outer Darkness: Models with this special rule gain +1 attack and their Stratagem being Blood Hunger: Reroll 1s to wound in the assault phase. A great chainaxe or void blade for a relic and something killy for a WLT like +1A on the charge.

 

I'm so excited for this edition as a marine player.

[autek mor]

 

Back to OP I still think the RG have the best CT and strategem. It will benefit both Assault and Ranged units.

Yep, reduces incoming fire even more than IH's tactic, but is limited to ranged attacks above 12". I'm currently building lists for the local campaign (+250p every month), but this leaves one problem...as it seems not to work on vehicles (besides dreads), it actively discourages using transports. Looks like I need to build a lot more footsloggers, jumpers and bikers to fill the points.

 

there is still the option of the stormraven for a transport. although it does not benefit from the chapter tactics, it still has the hard to hit rule so you can still build some interesting lists with a -1 to hit on incoming fire on every unit. even if you need more lascannons you can use mortis dreads in the backfield or any of the other options available which fits in nicely with the whole stealth theme.

[MajorNese]

 

 

Back to OP I still think the RG have the best CT and strategem. It will benefit both Assault and Ranged units.

Yep, reduces incoming fire even more than IH's tactic, but is limited to ranged attacks above 12". I'm currently building lists for the local campaign (+250p every month), but this leaves one problem...as it seems not to work on vehicles (besides dreads), it actively discourages using transports. Looks like I need to build a lot more footsloggers, jumpers and bikers to fill the points.

 

there is still the option of the stormraven for a transport. although it does not benefit from the chapter tactics, it still has the hard to hit rule so you can still build some interesting lists with a -1 to hit on incoming fire on every unit. even if you need more lascannons you can use mortis dreads in the backfield or any of the other options available which fits in nicely with the whole stealth theme.

Yep, currently considering fire support dreads. The good old autocannon version could be quite useful when parked in cover, but I'll need to look into converting one to fit. Won't do that before the full rules are out.

[autek mor]

 

 

 

Back to OP I still think the RG have the best CT and strategem. It will benefit both Assault and Ranged units.

Yep, reduces incoming fire even more than IH's tactic, but is limited to ranged attacks above 12". I'm currently building lists for the local campaign (+250p every month), but this leaves one problem...as it seems not to work on vehicles (besides dreads), it actively discourages using transports. Looks like I need to build a lot more footsloggers, jumpers and bikers to fill the points.

 

there is still the option of the stormraven for a transport. although it does not benefit from the chapter tactics, it still has the hard to hit rule so you can still build some interesting lists with a -1 to hit on incoming fire on every unit. even if you need more lascannons you can use mortis dreads in the backfield or any of the other options available which fits in nicely with the whole stealth theme.

Yep, currently considering fire support dreads. The good old autocannon version could be quite useful when parked in cover, but I'll need to look into converting one to fit. Won't do that before the full rules are out.

 

agreed, thats is another good option worth considering. what are your thoughts on the relic deredeo dread? 

[Alcyon]

No cloaks on the snipers?

They're so expensive now! But yes, if you don't want to be tabled turn one, cloaks might make some sense.

[Kua]

As for the Raptors, there's an article about successor tactics which essentially says "choose whatever tactic you like". Unless FW decides to release Raptors rules, using the RG ones and taking Issodon (the only unit ruleset fixed on the Raptors) seems fair game.

 

As I understood this article, it was about chapters with unknown origin.

But Raptors do know their origin.

[duz_]

According to the Faeit poll, RG CT's are considered "OP"

By quiet a margin...  

 

OP is probably too strong of a term... they're definitely good as we all agree

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

Remember you can burn command points to re-roll seize initiative, or even the first turn dice-off!

 

 

Quote the page that says you can do that? 

 

 

Page 242, "COMMAND POINTS"

 

"You can spend Command Points to use a Strategem before or during a battle." (bold emphasis mine)

 

I've seen/heard a lot of people playing this wrong, so it really needs to make the rounds. At my FLGS, people have been assuming you can't start using command points until the 1st turn kicks in.  That's not correct.

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

I agree the CT kind of discourages vehicles, which I think makes sense (though I do pray for the Whispercutter.)

 

Not sure I agree that it discourages vehicles, since no chapter tactics apply to vehicles.  I do think, though, that using transport vehicles is a great way to quickly deploy 3-4 units and thus increase your chances of getting the initiative.  A Land Raider Crusader, for example, can constitute 5 deployments; the Land Raider itself, 3 units of 5, plus a character!

 

 

I think there's an argument that it also gently discourages you from playing any Rapid Fire weapons with a 24" range, mostly Bolters and Plasma Guns, because you lose the -1 to hit if you want to be in optimal range for them. You either want your jump pack models to be more than 18" away from the enemy in preparation to charge, or for your ground guys to be able to shoot from more than 18" away (enemy move 6" + fire within 12" range.) I don't think Tactical marines are very Raven Guard-y personally so this is kind of fitting.

 

 

Agreed.  Long range shooting (to keep enemy as far away as possible and benefit from the -1 t hit) and jump assault troops (maximising that 19" distance sweet spot at all times), is the best synergy for us. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Rocmistro

[Race Bannon]

Hold up .. a -1 to-hit at 12+" is OP?