Chaos codex release date 8/5/17

[Panzer]

Oh I see. I misunderstood you then. :D

[Ghorgul]

Morale Test states: ".. if the result of the Morale test exceeds the highest Leadership characteristic in the unit, the test is failed".

 

So I don't know. I think modifier is any change to the listed characteristics on specific units Datasheet.

 

BRB p. 175, Modifying characteristics:

"You may also encounter abilities and rules that modify a characteristic. All modifiers are cumulative.."

 

BRB p. 178, Re-rolls:

"...re-rolls happen before modifiers (if any) are applied."

So re-rolls happen before modifiers are applied, so rule might state that -2 Ld until end of turn, but for purpose of re-roll it should be only applied after the re-roll has happened.

So are modifiers only the modifiers to the specific roll/test, how does the modifier to Leadership interact with Morale Test.

 

Morale test is just [1D6 + Removed Models - Leadership], if the value is positive you need remove more models. So if a rule modifies the test it is clear, it is a modifier. But are modifiers to the Leadership applied before the test, or only after the re-roll condition is checked?

 

Raptors' Fearsome Visage is certainly a Morale Test modifier, it adds +1 to the test per unit.

Butcher Cannon is -2 Ld until end of turn and states "This modifier is not cumulative", so the Butcher Cannon interaction is unclear.

No idea on the Night Lords Legion Trait's exact wording, probably it is to the Morale Tests. Well we will see later today I guess with the NL Legion Focus.

[Closet Skeleton]

Ok so I read the comments bellow the EC preview and apparently not only can undivided legions take marks, but you can choose a mark during a game via a stratagem. Marks no longer give stat boosts however, thats reserved for mark-specific stratagems and psychic powers.

 

Decoupling mark and legion choice where possible (eg outside of the big four) makes a lot of sense because it opens up a lot more flexibility for chaos.

 

Loyalists get to choose chapter.

 

Heretics get to choose the combination of legion and mark.

 

Chapter and legion are basically analogous (and in some examples are actually identical see IF/IW) so Chaos and loyalists wouldn't have much differentiation if choosing a legion in most cases also chose your mark for you. Having both <mark> and <legion> as options that can interact with each other gives Chaos a unique character despite basically being very similar to loyalists.

 

Mark stratagems would also an internal balance issue if some legions were banned from using them.

[HeresyBeliever]

So I could have a Black Legion arm or Iron Warriors with units with the mark of Khorne and Nurgle then 

[Brother Aiwass]

Just thinking about a random obscure warband, the Dragon Warriors, maybe using the renegade trait, with 2x5 slaaneshi flamer havocs, melta termies and a couple of zerker units in rhinos. You gotta love for flamer & melta, and CQC too. Maybe with count as Huron and a sorc as Nihilas ^_^

[Closet Skeleton]

So I could have a Black Legion arm or Iron Warriors with units with the mark of Khorne and Nurgle then 

You could always do that with Black Legion.

[Apostle of the 30th Host]

Night Lords are up now - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/02/legion-focus-night-lords-aug-2gw-homepage-post-2/

 

Answers a few questions:

 

- Icon of Despair -1 Ld doesn't stack *for multiple Icons*

 

- Neither does the Raptors -1 Ld *for multiple units*

 

Edit: Improved Wording

Edited August 2, 2017 by Apostle of the 30th Host

[Khornestar]

I'm not understanding the math/rules:

 

3 units of NL raptors, each with an Icon of Despair, cumulatively knock leadership down by 5. -3 from 3 units of NL, -1 from Icon rule, -1 from raptors rule?

[Iron Sage]

? It specifically says it stacks or I need glasses.

[Khornestar]

Actually, it makes even less sense to me, because the raptors rule is to add 1 to morale rolls.

[Apostle of the 30th Host]

I'm not understanding the math/rules:

 

3 units of NL raptors, each with an Icon of Despair, cumulatively knock leadership down by 5. -3 from 3 units of NL, -1 from Icon rule, -1 from raptors rule?

 

Yeah, how I read it, was as follows:

 

- 3 units of NL Raptors (-3 for NL rule)

- Each with a Icon of Despair (additional -1 - not -3 as multiple Icons don't stack)

- Raptor rule is +1 to Ld roll (which is equivalent to a further -1 - again, not -3 which implies that the Raptor rule does not stack for multiple units)

- That is a total of -5 as they all do combine, but someone earlier in the thread was wondering if the Raptor rule stacks for multiple units which it appears not to.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Apostle of the 30th Host

[Lord Asvaldir]

Yeah that's how I'm reading it which sounds pretty solid to me. As the article pointed out even high LD units are going to have to worry about moral when facing Night Lords. I mean if you're facing space marines who cares about a ld reroll when you have ld3 or 4? Seems like a raptor heavy, assault focused NL army will actually work this edition. Their strategem seems pretty solid as well, could really help save a valuable unit from a strong shooting attack. 

[Sception]

current wording seems to stack for raptors, presumably new codex wording will be clear that they don't.

 

I have mixed feelings about the night lords stratagem.  As mentioned in the article, it's a strong counter-incentive for plasma.  Or rather, it should be, but it only benefits infantry units, which for CSMs are mostly one wound models and thus tend not to get overcharged at anyway.  A reason to field night lords possessed and terminators, I guess.  I mean, it's a good stratagem even apart from punishing plasma, but still.

Edited August 2, 2017 by malisteen

[Trevak Dal]

I know it's a little pointless, but I hope we get the option to equip terminators with two power weapons/fists. I converted up some Red Butcher lites out of chaos terminators, because I was under the mistaken impression you could do that in the 6th edition codex and because it looked cool.

 

So I have had them sitting around in their container doing nothing.

 

Alpha Legion stuff is okay I guess, I was hoping for mass infiltration so I could save a bunch of money on transports, but ah well.

 

Black Legion continues to be a solid investment of effort, knew it was a wise choice.

 

I'm waiting nervously to hear about my World Eaters...who are my at heart Chaos Marine Army of choice.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Night lord specific rules stack, raptor fearsome visage doesn't. 

 

As someone pointed out in the facebook page : kinda lame the Space Marine are know the worst army for moral compared to AM with Commissaries, ork, nidz & synapse.

 

Only answer was : you got chaos sniper if you go Forgeworld..

[Lord Abaia]

I wonder if there will be any practical synergy between Night Lords ld debuffs and Tzeentch daemons Treason of Tzeentch power. That might be hilarious if an IG player brings a Vindicare to let you borrow to help with commissars. Edited August 2, 2017 by Magpie Knight

[Khornestar]

Seems like one would need lots of snipers to take out even a humble commissar, though. 2 per squad of Marauders, 36" range... eh, I dunno. I guess it's better than nothing.

[Trevak Dal]

Is that a Renegades and heretics unit, marauders?

[Khornestar]

Yeah, it's an elites choice that can take 2 sniper rifles per minimum unit of 5. BS 3+. If they fail morale, they all run away. *shrug* about that. They're our only in-faction source of snipers.

[Azekai]

Is that a Renegades and heretics unit, marauders?

Yep. Traitor guard have access to some great stuff... and a lot of mediocre junk. In a vacuum Marauders are fine. Compared to other sniper units like ratlings they are decidedly meh.

 

 

 

If they fail morale, they all run away. *shrug* about that. They're our only in-faction source of snipers.

They also pass their morale checks on anything but a 1. Which isn't bad if it is a small unit... they are likely to all be dead by the time they fail, statistically speaking.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Azekai

[Trevak Dal]

I'd probably look to bringing a cheap Imperial Fist/"Iron Warrior" captain and 10-20 scout snipers, or a number of Vindicares before that.

[Sception]

when they're the only sniper unit in all of Chaos, they only have to be ok in a vacuum to be worth considering

[Lord Abaia]

Diabolical strength looks like it will turn Warp Talons or Possessed into absolute murder machines. I'm going to need more sorcerers for all these powers I want to use. Edited August 2, 2017 by Magpie Knight

[Sception]

Diabolical Strength targets a model, not a unit.

[Khornestar]

Wow, weaksauce. Didn't catch that. Still useful for buffing, say, a DP.