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The Drinking Hole - General Necromunda banter thread

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Stoic Raptor Venerable Brother

Stoic Raptor

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In the midst of my apprehensions and gripes, I do have to interject some positive input on all this and own up to my cynicism.  I didn't think they were going to actually bring back the tabletop game.  When they announced it, I figured they were going to fall back on the computer game (still hoping that gets completed!) and then when Shadow War was announced, I thought "well, they're going to say "Here's your new 'Necromunda'!" and leave it at that.  I'm sorry to see that support for that game has fallen by the wayside but maybe that's part of the reason why I'm so apprehensive about estimating their support for any game that isn't one of the main two.

 

I'm hoping they'll keep their promise to release the remaining main Houses and hopefully, in less time than they took to catch up on all the Season One Blood Bowl teams.  I'm hoping they'll continue to support the game in stores and in print.  I've heard claims that the "new GW" doesn't do things the way they used to... and this is GW's best opportunity to make me a believer.  All it takes is transparency, keeping their word and maintaining support of the product.

 

All that said, I'm really glad that Necromunda has returned to the tabletop, and that it's actually within my means to buy the box set (and even the tactics cards and dice!) in spite of the typical financial obligations this time of year (trading in some stuff I don't play or haven't painted helped).  I'm like a kid at Christmas, counting down the days to its release - and I'll need it, because Black Friday in banking is almost as crazy as it is in retail.

 

I'm really looking forward to seeing people's painted gangs, conversions, homebuilt terrain, and stories - battle reports and background fiction.  Maybe I'll even find the time to paint and play - the main reason why I like skirmish games better than big army-based options.

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Petitioner's City Veteran

Petitioner's City

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Nice rundown on Empire of Ghost:

 

 

 

Necromunda: Underhive and Gang War Initial Thoughts
I had a chance today to sit down with both the copies of the new Necromunda Underhive boxed game and the Gang War expansion book and wanted to give my initial thoughts on both. As such, this shouldn't be taken as a true review, nor as a simple unboxing, but more as an attempt to provide my own feedback with my own background.

For those of you who are unfamiliar, I have a long and varied history with Necromunda. Way back in 1995, when I was 16, Necromunda was the very first miniatures game I had ever bought. I played it nearly every other day that year and pulled it out often during high school. When my now-wife and I moved to Chicago in the early 2000s, there were essentially no gaming stores in business within city limits in which to play, so I formed a small group of players. By 2008, I had been introduced to the Adepticon gaming convention and volunteered to run a Necromunda tournament that became an annual tradition and was, as far as I know, the only competitive Necromunda event in the world (at least during that time). Shortly thereafter, I sat down and wrote the expanded ruleset known as Inquisimunda - an expansion still played, even after my involvement in the project waned and I had stepped away; version 2 being due to the efforts of many wonderful volunteers. With the new release and my prior experience, I've been tapped to lead the Necromunda team at Adepticon. So, you can say I'm fairly knowledgeable on the subject....

Underhive Boxed Game

With that said, these are my initial impressions done by taking about an hour to flip through the book and recall previous versions, so there may be some minor errors. Measurements are approximate since I didn't have a ruler. The boxed game itself is simply jammed pack with lots of GW goodness. The templates are of similar size as those used previously - a flamer template, 3" blast and 5" blast. Terrain includes 10 2"x2" barricades, ~5 Loot Caskets, a "Beast Lair" marker, Priority marker, 4 computer terminals, and a small Imperial shrine (which, intriguingly, has no rules....perhaps a Redemptionist objective in the future???). Terrain also includes 5 large 4"x2" doors and 2 1.5"x2" small doors that are only used in the "board" style game.

The miniatures themselves are definitely larger than the old ones but probably not "true" 32mm. The most noticeable difference would be in the Eschers; Goliaths could easily mix old and new miniatures. There is a lot of interchangeability with heads and hair, but probably not quite as much with arms. Interestingly enough, each gang has a different base size (Eschers 25mm, Goliaths 32mm), which means that Goliaths will have a wider area of effect but will also likely suffer more from templates and Broken results. The Escher models in the box tend to favor las and autogun weaponry, while the Goliaths tend to favor stub and shotgun weaponry.

There are 10 named Goliath cards, 10 named Escher cards, and ~20 blank generic fighter cards. I am unaware of any plastic sleeves on the market that would adequately fit their larger size, but it will only be a matter of time before someone releases them (or they could be laminated). The named Goliaths tend to be slower but stronger and with heavier armor; whereas the named Escher tend to be faster and more nimble but with weaker armor. Terrain tiles are about 12" square with 1.5" squares to denote tunnels and passageways.

One of the new features are the addition of "Tactics" cards which are similar to those used in 8th ed. 40K. Each gang has 4 unique Tactics cards and there are 20 generic Tactics cards. Goliath Tactics are shrug off injuries, increase charge distance, increase Strength and Toughness, and stand up Pinned models. Escher Tactics are counter a charge, force an opponent to Nerve test before battle, set a gas trap, or move their models before battle. Generic Tactics include (but are not limited to) extra armor, bobby traps, hidden passages, and multiple activations.

The main rulebook is fairly nice. If I have one criticism of it, I'd say the old rulebooks have much more artwork and more in-game pictures, which tended to add inspiration for new players to get their miniatures and terrain assembled and painted. The first ~35 pages of the book are devoted solely to fluff and immersing the player into the world of Necromunda. If you are familiar with the old rules, there really isn't much new info here.

Fighter characteristics and loadouts are fairly similar to previous editions, with some new characteristics (Cool, Willpower, and Intelligence). Each turn players roll for Priority and place their Readied markers and are then able to activate each fighter and that fighter gets ~2 actions. Actions include basic move, basic shoot, aiming (+1 to hit), charging (+D3" to Move - HUGE change from previous editions!), take cover (move up to 1/2 move then go to Pinned), Coup De Grace (basically eliminate an injured fighter not engaged in HtH combat that's within 1"; this is a free action if injured in HtH combat as with previous editions), reloading (basically roll to make a weapon usable after a failed Ammo roll), open or close a door, use a terminal, break down a door, crawl/fire through a duct, and open/lockpick/carry a Loot Casket.

Fighters in HtH combat have two basic actions - fight or retreat. Pinned fighters may stand (recover from Pinning), crawl (1/2 move), blind fire (shooting attack, -2 to hit), and reload. Injured fighters may only crawl.

Shooting and HtH mechanics are similar to previous editions, with the addition of a "prone" stance to shooting that confers a -1 to hit modifier at long range. There is a 90 degree vision arc, so models in competitive environments will absolutely need to have a tick mark on their bases to denote facing. Fighters may fire two pistol weapons at the same target with one action with a -1 to hit modifier. The Stray Shot rules do remain. And yes, Overwatch is "gone", having been changed to a skill (more on skills in the Gang War section). Multiple HtH combats are handled as each fighter either adding or subtracting 1 to the fight result.

To wound, gone are the calculation tables comparing Strength and Toughness on X and Y axis. Instead, it is a simple chart - twice the Strength to Toughness? 2+. Strength Greater than Toughness? 3+, etc. Injury results are the same, with the term "Seriously Injured" replacing Down. Nerve Tests for fighters are taken if a friendly model goes OOA or is Seriously Injured within 3" - test using the Cool characteristic, adding 1 for each other friendly fighter nearby. If failed, the fighter runs away to cover and is Broken. Broken fighters continue to run if there are enemies in LOS, are never Readied, may Rally in the End phase, and while Broken only react to HtH combat attacks.

Unto basic terrain rules - Doors block LOS and movement (when closed), have T 5 and 4 Wounds. Barricades provide -1 to hit modifier in Shooting and HtH combat. The "Beast Lair" marker is very cool - if a fighter ends their activation within 6" there is a chance they're attacked with a VERY tough attack (I won't ruin how brutal it is here! Mwahahaha...) and has T4, 3 Wounds, and is -2 to hit! Ducts act as walls and pitfalls require Initiative checks if a character is pushed into them or they go Out of Action. Toxic Sludge pools make fighters -1T if they stand within them and can cause them to go Out of Action is they are knocked down into them. Loot Caskets have the possibility to be a trap, nothing at all, or ammo.

Gang War

Hmmmm....it's tough to say how I feel about this expansion. They've done a nice job of streamlining some of the more "advanced" rules here, but there are also some really glaring omissions. The main "board" game style is referred to as Zone Mortalis and seems to line up with (admittedly what little I know of) Zone Mortalis itself. The "3D" or "Classic" style is referred to here as Sector Mechanicus. I'm not sure how much traction the community at large will give these easily trademarked names but....time will tell.

As for the 3D rules themselves, there really isn't a whole lot here, with the rules only taking up about 8 pages. Terrain is either an obstacle (anything smaller than 2"x2"x2") or a Structure. True LOS is covered, terrain is catalogued as either normal (full move) or difficult (1/2 move) terrain, platforms and overhangs are covered as well (basically, if a figure can fit, they can move there). Climbing without the aid of a ladder is done at 1/2 movement; climbing with a ladder is done at full movement and the time-honored tradition of "running" up a ladder is omitted (that's definitely going to be house ruled by veterans). Jumping, leaping, and falling are treated in similar ways to previous editions. Doors are omitted here (unless of course, like me, your terrain has doors, in which case you're free to use the Door rules). And.....that's about it.

Next are the campaign rules. The biggest change here is to the Experience and advancement rules. Experience is given (for now) only by taking another fighter Out of Action, which earns +1XP. Everyone but basic Gangers are given the chance to "purchase" advancements at a set rate. Every subsequent time that advancement is purchased, it's cost increases by +2XP. Basic Gangers must "pool" their first 6XP, at which point they roll 2D6 and take a one-time advancement (unless they are promoted to Specialist by rolling a 2 or 12). I'm unsure how I feel about this - while it certainly speeds up the post-game sequence, it feels too much like Mordheim, in which your basic fighters were pretty much meat shields for the Heroes.

With that said, GW have also left out an "Underdog" Table. For those of you who don't know, this table was the difference in points between each players gang rating that would add additional experience to the "weaker" gang in the post-game sequence depending on how much of a difference there was. This helped to balance out play between older and newer gangs and gave players entering campaigns at later points a slight boost to keep them competitive.

The injury list is similar, including the much-hated Death result and Captured result. The territory list is similar (if not exactly the same), as are the Skill tables and much of the Trading Post. Included at the very end of the book are six Scenarios, of which I think Border Dispute is probably the only truly "new" scenario.

The biggest omission here, and I think my main issue with this book, is the lack of Hired Guns. Hired Guns were probably the best thing about previous editions, as they added a bit of flavor and the ability to balance out a gang that may be lacking in an area of expertise. Hired Guns like the Scum, Ratskin Scout, Pit Slave, and Wyrd are absolutely iconic miniatures from GW's 1990s lineup and their absence is glaring here. In their absence, I think GW should have included something extra to balance it out, perhaps something like some exclusive Tactics Cards


In conclusion, this is an almost perfect re-release of a beloved miniatures game and I really hope that GW is willing to listen to feedback from the community and expand upon this initial release to bring it more in line with the vast array of gangs, miniatures, and fluff from previous editions.
 
PS: does anyone have a pic of the general trading post - from the youtube videos it still looks really limited - is this true? Or is it a match for the old general ones?
 
 

++ Please note that posting complete pages and/or sections of rulebooks, articles, and other GW publications is an intellectual property (IP) violation, and is therefore against B&C rules. ++

Edited by Major_Gilbear
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Reyner Venerable Brother

Reyner

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Posted

There are some images of a trading post floating around the internet - from the article where the guy is asking about Hired Guns is disappointing but it seems like the Hired Guns/Hangers-On will be in another book but the Beastman Bounty Hunter has his rules in the box. 

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MithrilForge Venerable Brother

MithrilForge

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Posted

Great read Petitioner, thanks for re posting it :thumbsup:

i too feel that we will get more revealed in the next "however many" Gang war supplements i.e. Hired Guns etc and more will be fed out with each new book perhaps?...

i reckon that beastman bounty hunter is cool:wub:  but the resin Hater inside of me thinks that plastic Gors ($41 Aust a box) and some Cadian/Skitarii parts could well serve me better....:happy.: 

 

Cheers, Mithril

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Petitioner's City Veteran

Petitioner's City

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Posted (edited)

Great read Petitioner, thanks for re posting it :thumbsup:

i too feel that we will get more revealed in the next "however many" Gang war supplements i.e. Hired Guns etc and more will be fed out with each new book perhaps?...

 

Cheers, Mithril

Thanks Mithril! Someone on yaktribes posited it was leading to a complete rulebook in a years time. If so, it is like the first vhs of an old while season collection

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MithrilForge Venerable Brother

MithrilForge

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

Great read Petitioner, thanks for re posting it :thumbsup:

i too feel that we will get more revealed in the next "however many" Gang war supplements i.e. Hired Guns etc and more will be fed out with each new book perhaps?...

 

Cheers, Mithril

Thanks Mithril! Someone on yaktribes posited it was leading to a complete rulebook in a years time. If so, it is like the first vhs of an old while season collection

 

As for the bounty hunter - that is the right thinking for this game. Convert :biggrin.:

 

Also from yaktribes, no one seems to be mentioning the following leaked rules here (the first you can see in YouTube reviews, the others ppl are talking about so maybe not confirmed)

 

- gang members can only have up to 3 weapons, with unwieldy counting as 2 of the 3. Bulging biceps possibly makes unwieldy weapons back to 1.

-you can't change the weapons of your gangers, juves and specialists later in the campaign. Leaders and champions can have alternate sets reflected in cards in your gang deck.

- the gang deck is shuffled and drawn from at random for certain or possibly all scenarios.

 

it has been many years since i last played :sweat: Necro ,but i plan to change that, anyways iirc you could change/buy better weapons during a campaign in the old system..right?...

you'd think they would allow that (being that you might buy multiple models to represent one figure during a campaign,i remember doing that years ago when one of my goliath gangers "Steel" was his name :biggrin.:  got a bionic arm and eye replacement i think...so i modelled a whole new figure for him) it would mean a potential for more sales for them ?!?... as in oh i'll get another box of 10 guys to use for converting or to redo a gang member with new gear.. i guess we can model 2 different figures for our gang boss though!.

 

i read there that they have a 90' arc of sight, i think i'll be putting hazard stripes on the base rim to cover that angle from the models centre front point,will make it easier to judge line of sight.

3 weapons ...as in blade ,pistol and rifle type/heavy weapon?...

 

i worked out my back story & colour scheme for my goliath's -

they are Expat cadian's who have come to necro to find work and have been inducted into the goliath gang and have received stim upgrades etc etc,they are a tight nit bunch and stay together but show their past alleigance to each other by wearing Zandri fatigue coloured pants and paint their armour plates in green to represent a link to their past, i'm sure they will have various aquila tattoo's here and there and perhaps a somewhat trimmed and more uniform mohawk :tongue.:  the discipline still resides in em... as to names i'm toying with so far -

Gatekeepers, The -144's , The Grim.      

 

Mithril  

 

++EDIT++ swarmlord - i think your Int check on your Escher leader is backwards - her save roll should be easier than the champions...

Edited by mithrilforge
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Petitioner's City Veteran

Petitioner's City

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

Great read Petitioner, thanks for re posting it :thumbsup:

i too feel that we will get more revealed in the next "however many" Gang war supplements i.e. Hired Guns etc and more will be fed out with each new book perhaps?...

 

Cheers, Mithril

Thanks Mithril! Someone on yaktribes posited it was leading to a complete rulebook in a years time. If so, it is like the first vhs of an old while season collection

 

As for the bounty hunter - that is the right thinking for this game. Convert :biggrin.:

 

Also from yaktribes, no one seems to be mentioning the following leaked rules here (the first you can see in YouTube reviews, the others ppl are talking about so maybe not confirmed)

 

- gang members can only have up to 3 weapons, with unwieldy counting as 2 of the 3. Bulging biceps possibly makes unwieldy weapons back to 1.

-you can't change the weapons of your gangers, juves and specialists later in the campaign. Leaders and champions can have alternate sets reflected in cards in your gang deck.

- the gang deck is shuffled and drawn from at random for certain or possibly all scenarios.

it has been many years since i last played :sweat: Necro ,but i plan to change that, anyways iirc you could change/buy better weapons during a campaign in the old system..right?...

you'd think they would allow that (being that you might buy multiple models to represent one figure during a campaign,i remember doing that years ago when one of my goliath gangers "Steel" was his name :biggrin.: got a bionic arm and eye replacement i think...so i modelled a whole new figure for him) it would mean a potential for more sales for them ?!?... as in oh i'll get another box of 10 guys to use for converting or to redo a gang member with new gear.. i guess we can model 2 different figures for our gang boss though!.

 

i read there that they have a 90' arc of sight, i think i'll be putting hazard stripes on the base rim to cover that angle from the models centre front point,will make it easier to judge line of sight.

3 weapons ...as in blade ,pistol and rifle type/heavy weapon?...

 

i worked out my back story & colour scheme for my goliath's -

they are Expat cadian's who have come to necro to find work and have been inducted into the goliath gang and have received stim upgrades etc etc,they are a tight nit bunch and stay together but show their past alleigance to each other by wearing Zandri fatigue coloured pants and paint their armour plates in green to represent a link to their past, i'm sure they will have various aquila tattoo's here and there and perhaps a somewhat trimmed and more uniform mohawk :tongue.: the discipline still resides in em... as to names i'm toying with so far -

Gatekeepers, The -144's , The Grim.

 

Mithril

 

++EDIT++ swarmlord - i think your Int check on your Escher leader is backwards - her save roll should be easier than the champions...

Yeah house ruling is a good idea, but in thw book Hoare and the other writers mention it is to stop people having to cut go their weapons. Depending on how damaging disabilities work it may be naff - if the heavy weapon-toting person loses an eye for example.

 

It seems counter intuitive given the ease of combining plastics, resin and magnets these days.

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OnboardG1 Battle-Brother

OnboardG1

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

 

 

Great read Petitioner, thanks for re posting it :thumbsup:

i too feel that we will get more revealed in the next "however many" Gang war supplements i.e. Hired Guns etc and more will be fed out with each new book perhaps?...

 

Cheers, Mithril

Thanks Mithril! Someone on yaktribes posited it was leading to a complete rulebook in a years time. If so, it is like the first vhs of an old while season collection

 

As for the bounty hunter - that is the right thinking for this game. Convert :biggrin.:

 

Also from yaktribes, no one seems to be mentioning the following leaked rules here (the first you can see in YouTube reviews, the others ppl are talking about so maybe not confirmed)

 

- gang members can only have up to 3 weapons, with unwieldy counting as 2 of the 3. Bulging biceps possibly makes unwieldy weapons back to 1.

-you can't change the weapons of your gangers, juves and specialists later in the campaign. Leaders and champions can have alternate sets reflected in cards in your gang deck.

- the gang deck is shuffled and drawn from at random for certain or possibly all scenarios.

it has been many years since i last played :sweat: Necro ,but i plan to change that, anyways iirc you could change/buy better weapons during a campaign in the old system..right?...

you'd think they would allow that (being that you might buy multiple models to represent one figure during a campaign,i remember doing that years ago when one of my goliath gangers "Steel" was his name :biggrin.: got a bionic arm and eye replacement i think...so i modelled a whole new figure for him) it would mean a potential for more sales for them ?!?... as in oh i'll get another box of 10 guys to use for converting or to redo a gang member with new gear.. i guess we can model 2 different figures for our gang boss though!.

 

i read there that they have a 90' arc of sight, i think i'll be putting hazard stripes on the base rim to cover that angle from the models centre front point,will make it easier to judge line of sight.

3 weapons ...as in blade ,pistol and rifle type/heavy weapon?...

 

i worked out my back story & colour scheme for my goliath's -

they are Expat cadian's who have come to necro to find work and have been inducted into the goliath gang and have received stim upgrades etc etc,they are a tight nit bunch and stay together but show their past alleigance to each other by wearing Zandri fatigue coloured pants and paint their armour plates in green to represent a link to their past, i'm sure they will have various aquila tattoo's here and there and perhaps a somewhat trimmed and more uniform mohawk :tongue.: the discipline still resides in em... as to names i'm toying with so far -

Gatekeepers, The -144's , The Grim.

 

Mithril

 

++EDIT++ swarmlord - i think your Int check on your Escher leader is backwards - her save roll should be easier than the champions...

Yeah house ruling is a good idea, but in thw book Hoare and the other writers mention it is to stop people having to cut go their weapons. Depending on how damaging disabilities work it may be naff - if the heavy weapon-toting person loses an eye for example.

 

It seems counter intuitive given the ease of combining plastics, resin and magnets these days.

 

 

Also given that it only costs you £20 from a decent reseller to get a whole alternate set of minis for your gangers. I'm not super bothered by the change as I'm sure some house ruling will get around it.

Edited by OnboardG1
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Stoic Raptor Venerable Brother

Stoic Raptor

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Posted

I was wondering how to distinguish the front arc - I always hated the little tics on the bases for WarmaHordes.  I may have to steal your idea about the hazard stripes - maybe not across the entire 90 degree arc but at least for the edges of it.  Depends on how well I can paint them (I was going to do stripes on parts of the top of each base too.

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MithrilForge Venerable Brother

MithrilForge

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Posted

I was wondering how to distinguish the front arc - I always hated the little tics on the bases for WarmaHordes.  I may have to steal your idea about the hazard stripes - maybe not across the entire 90 degree arc but at least for the edges of it.  Depends on how well I can paint them (I was going to do stripes on parts of the top of each base too.

Hmm you could try and hazard stripe a small area in the arc and weather it to disguise it but still have an area you can see as your line of sight area?!...

It's experiment time!

Cheers, Mithril

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Praetor of Calth Battle-Brother

Praetor of Calth

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Posted

 

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that, I'm all for Genestealer Cults turning up because it still kinda fits in amongst the setting, but that doesn't mean I want to see Xenos gangs of all flavours turning up. I guess an Eldar Bounty Hunter wouldn't be so bad, but a whole gang would be too "40k" for my tastes. Unless that gang was drastically different from 40k ofc...

 

The Beastman guy looks amazing, literally a perfect model, I genuinely cannot fault it. Here's hoping we'll get some more previews at the Open Day alongside him. Maybe the third gang, if not just more of the Hired Guns due to be released in the near future?

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MithrilForge Venerable Brother

MithrilForge

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Posted

 

LOL i remember playing Necro back in the day and everyone was ooh we get to run a ranger in the Hive :wub:  

not everyone was full on Black Templar back then :biggrin.: we were easy going and had fun with it...

I look forwards to Starting some cool campaigns for necromunda soon... perhaps with an eldar even :happy.: 

Good times ahead!! 

Mithril 

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Gorgoff Veteran

Gorgoff

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Posted

I was wondering how to distinguish the front arc - I always hated the little tics on the bases for WarmaHordes. I may have to steal your idea about the hazard stripes - maybe not across the entire 90 degree arc but at least for the edges of it. Depends on how well I can paint them (I was going to do stripes on parts of the top of each base too.

I'll go with a name tag.

Fulfills two purposes at once.

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MithrilForge Venerable Brother

MithrilForge

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Posted

Well it's Xeno traders in the top spires of the hive. In an IF recruiting world.

So yeah I think is uncommon.

To be honest, there's a lot going on in the 40k Universe that the space marines don't know about or don't care about..as in Priority( a few renegade eldar selling wares are not going to draw the same attention as say ...the 13th black crusade or a hive fleet :whistling:  )  

if you played back around 2nd ed or before, it was less of the "Blargh!!!... argh!!!, wipe every Xeno out of existence" red faced screaming fury... :laugh.:

 

Mithril  

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Petitioner's City Veteran

Petitioner's City

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Posted

It may also be set post-Gathering Storm, in which Guilleman's entente cordiale with the eldar has changed certain views in the Imperium. As a world close to Terra, maybe Necromunda has a more liberal attitude. Or perhaps, the 'xenos-hating' view of 40K we had til now was merely itself a certain ideologically charged view not as widely held as its (imaginary) proponents had put forth.

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