The Black Legion

[ninja6fett]

 

People aren't making the "Sigismund is slower than his prime" argument from nothing. It's directly commented on and discussed in the book. And the point I believe we're supposed to take from it is what Abbadon says to Khayon: "A slowed 1100+ Sigismund isn't pitiful. Think about the fact that all aging did is bring him down to the point where he could still probably beat the best Astartes swordsmen, rather than annihilate them." Yes Sigismund was slower, but he was still capable of going toe to toe with nearly anyone and winning. Knowing that Abbadon (the chosen of Chaos and a not insignificantly gifted fighter himself) would eventually beat him, he still almost killed him by using Abby's flaws against him. THAT'S just how good Sigismund was, even at 1100+.

Right, but we are saying the Dante comparison is not relevant because Dante has some other benefits from drinking blood (I didn't know about the prior to the conversation). There's nothing wrong with a Sigismund being defeated. 'A king has his reign, then he dies'. There's everything wrong with rolling into a conversation and saying 'Well Dante is old and he would beat Abaddon' or whatever the hell the Dante comparison was meant to achieve. It's like knocking over a child's blocks because they are playing a different game. This song isn't about the blood Angels.

 

 

I can agree with that. Comparing him to Dante is useless.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It was a counter point to the effect of aging.

[helterskelter]

Sorry for this incoming wall but I feel it might be relevant

 

Abby vs Sigis is probably the hardest thing ADB is ever going to have to write.

The more I think about it the more I'm worried about reading it.

A list of fears includes:

Sigi is old: how old? Dante is 1100 and eats nids, is he 2k? Does that mean Abby can only beat him because he's old?

Sigi is war wracked: Abby can only kill him because he's injured

Abby cheats: he can't beat sigi in a straight fight plus above reasons

The dual is split up: Abby couldn't beat sigi in x time.

Sigi runs: IF guys will hate you

Abby runs: more memes

 

 

Abby vs Sigis is probably the hardest thing ADB is ever going to have to write.

Man, not even close.

 

You have a point, but what you're describing in that list is lot of what people's reactions will be, several of which are heightened by general internet nonsense and memes. You can't write for that stuff. You can't worry about it. People will say what people will say, they'll think what they think, often regardless of what's in the actual text. You just present something as realistically as you can, and with as much integrity as possible, and trust readers to get it.

 

Look at the Night of the Wolf. You had Wolf fans saying it was an amazing victory, and lamenting it as an awful defeat. You had World Eater fans saying it was a great victory, and cursing that it was a terrible defeat. 99% of readers saw it as a stalemate, or realised one side won the battle but lost the war, and so on. But the people against it, saying it was definitely X, Y, or Z... They raged regardless of what was actually in the text. They approached it with their belief of what should/must happen in that situation, and despite the fact none of them even agreed with each other, it was a brief storm of "This is wrong".

 

If you bow to that mindset, you'll never get anything written. Maybe the blandest, most harmless, least insightful stuff - but literary advice is rife with stuff like "If you fear readers' reactions, you'll be paralysed and never write a word."

 

Forthe same reason, many people on Reddit and 4chan, who are often the earliest/loudest with this stuff, are going to hate it no matter what it is. That list you wrote, where literally no answer is the right one? It's a great list. And that's who those people often are. Anything you do will be the wrong answer to them, and people like them. Not because the answer is actually wrong, but because no one really agrees on what was right - and you're left with a storm of "This is wrong" instead.

 

Sigismund vs. Abaddon wasn't difficult at all compared to all the explaining how the warp works, and showing the diversity of Chaos warbands, and all the other stuff in the series. And I'm not worried about the reaction to it. Everyone who saw it, and has a decent grasp on the setting, said it was variously great, felt perfect, and did both characters justice. I'm not worried about the reactions of the kinds of fans who say "us" when talking about their fave Chapter, or froth on /tg/ about how I "love Chaos" or whatever other nonsense they tell themselves to prove their false points.

[Knockagh]

Once again I've paid £40 for a premium version of a novel and those who paid for the cheapest version have it before me. No wonder the sales of the limited editions are stalling.

[Sete]

Hey I paid the cheapest and I still don't have it.

[Knockagh]

@sete, you will have it before me. You will get it on the release date. I will have to wait probably a week from release date until they get it delivered, within the UK.

[b1soul]

Wait...Dante is 1,500 plus years old? Cool.

[Sete]

@sete, you will have it before me. You will get it on the release date. I will have to wait probably a week from release date until they get it delivered, within the UK.

The wonders of the digital era! While I prefer a book, the fact that I work overseas, makes the digital version practical.

[Draakur]

All finished. It's good. It's so good. Thank you A D-B. Your are undoubtedly one of my two favourite BL writers, the two of you being quite a measure ahead of the rest of the pack. I have many questions and thoughts, but mostly I just want to thank you for keeping my 40K flame burning and being a primary contributor to keeping me engaged in and loving this setting and its lore :)

[Mellow]

I've always bought the iBooks. It takes up less space on my shelf and I'm not someone who cares for pretty covers and pictures. I just want the content. That's why "you" pay more and that's why you wait for it to be hand made in the hellscape of the Eye before you get it delivered.

[Extropian]

All finished. It's good. It's so good. Thank you A D-B. Your are undoubtedly one of my two favourite BL writers, the two of you being quite a measure ahead of the rest of the pack. I have many questions and thoughts, but mostly I just want to thank you for keeping my 40K flame burning and being a primary contributor to keeping me engaged in and loving this setting and its lore

 

If the other is Chris Wraight, I like your taste.

If not...well, 50% is decent at least :p

[Draakur]

 

All finished. It's good. It's so good. Thank you A D-B. Your are undoubtedly one of my two favourite BL writers, the two of you being quite a measure ahead of the rest of the pack. I have many questions and thoughts, but mostly I just want to thank you for keeping my 40K flame burning and being a primary contributor to keeping me engaged in and loving this setting and its lore :)

 

 

If the other is Chris Wraight, I like your taste.

If not...well, 50% is decent at least :p

The other is, indeed, Mr Wraight :)

[Extropian]

 

 

All finished. It's good. It's so good. Thank you A D-B. Your are undoubtedly one of my two favourite BL writers, the two of you being quite a measure ahead of the rest of the pack. I have many questions and thoughts, but mostly I just want to thank you for keeping my 40K flame burning and being a primary contributor to keeping me engaged in and loving this setting and its lore

 

If the other is Chris Wraight, I like your taste.

If not...well, 50% is decent at least

The other is, indeed, Mr Wraight

 

 

Super.

I won't add anything after this as it's offtopic, but he (CW) really suddenly was awesome wasn't he?

 

Ontopic, this and Talon are 2 of my favourite ADB novels so far. Night Lords will always have a special, horrible place in my heart but in some ways these are actually better IMO. Which is quite a thing.

 

It does help that Khayons name is actually literally my RL name, if you use the correct roots and pronounciations as given by him :D

[Draakur]

He really was. I was once just a passing White Scars fan - I am now an unabashed fanboy of the highest and most shameful order, pretty much wholly thanks to him.

 

I guess my way of getting back on topic will be asking a question of the man himself: Aaron, I don't imagine you have any sort of idea when you'll know if you'll be continuing this series or not, do you?

[Sete]

ADB needs to put some pressure on the GW marketing team, what better chance to release a new Abbadon and a new Emperors Champion?

 

I could hear all the £€¥$ in GW coffers.

[Calas Typhon]

 

It's like in the HH where everyone says the Space Marines are immortal because they have no concept of how long they actually live for. We still don't know for sure if they functionally can live forever, but age definitely affects them in some way. That was established right from the off Horus Rising. It only makes sense that Siggy has been affected in some way by his above average, for a Space Marine, lifespan and you can bet your house it's affected Dante too. 

 

This is addressed in Perturabo actually. Fighting the Hrud  led to the Iron Warriors knowing that their immortality was a lie. Dantioch rocking up to Perturabo pretty much at the end of his life as he just managed to get away from the hrud before withering to dust as the other legionaries around him did. He was essentially unfunctional in body. His mind seemed to be the same though, and its probably safe to say that his brain along with the other organs would have been aged also. 

 

By the time he reaches Perturabo he has aged around 3000 years. So adding to his estimated age prior to the engagement he would be around 3160 years old providing he was Olympian serving from the finding of the Primarch. 

 

So we do have a rough range on how long an Astartes can be functional in body for, only we can't really pinpoint a range of years lower than 1000-2000 years where they are definitely going to loose function.

[HeritorA]

Guys really stop comparing Dante in BL thread.

 

I was expecting answers to our questions with Sete, but in 3 new pages of Dante age vs Sigi age and prowess everything is lost now.

Why always duels goes into 10 pages discussion of dexterity vs strength. Geeze

 

A D-B sorry to ask again - but I think you didn't see our questions with Sete.

 

You are an author and it's your right to do as you please - and it's just my opinion but

kind of curious why you made him Possessed? From his image in Betrayer - he would have been the least person to ever become possessed by daemon. So I think somewhere here a great story in the making is buried.

Also that's amazing point from the guys about the HH card. Totally missed that, so I'm not so old

 

Also I seconded Sete question

 

About the Eternal Crusader being a Gloriana ship, what made you go for that decision? Lore wise it always had been a refitted battlebarge, why the change? Did we on BaC in our Gloriana class in HH discussion made you do that? To fix the inconsistency between BL and FW books about Gloriana type? Or did Laurie after the discussion decided to change the role and make Gloriana totally available not only as a flagships for 20 primarchs?

[depthcharge12]

Talking with Athrawes, we love how the Rubricae tone "All is dust" to commands and how Khayon is dubbed the Grave Robber. He's pretty much the Team Rocket of 40k...stealing everyone's Rubricae :P

 

I'm curious if the Vengeful Spirit is later cleansed room by room of its maladies later on to fit more Black legionnaires.

[bluntblade]

I wonder if it's still got much of the Cybernetica army Khayon assembled. They'd look so classy in black and gold.

[Cleanse And Purify]

@HeritorA: the character in question is such a bit part it barely matters. Also, no idea how you get "would be the least likely person to be possessed" from his prior appearances. There are literally reams of other characters less likely to become possessed. Discounting all loyalists, pretty much any Night Lord or Iron Warrior that maintains the usual distrust for daemons and gods. The Exalted and others like him excluded, of course. In fact, I think it makes a bit of sense. The character in question is a prideful, hubristic warrior with exceptional skill in personal combat. But once he meets others who can best him, either through skill (Sigismund) or through ye olde hax (psykers or other possessed) he might start worrying about how he can maintain his edge. And so he stoops to the greatest PEDs ever invented: daemons.

[1ncarnadine]

A D-B sorry to ask again - but I think you didn't see our questions with Sete.

 

You are an author and it's your right to do as you please - and it's just my opinion but

kind of curious why you made him Possessed? From his image in Betrayer - he would have been the least person to ever become possessed by daemon. So I think somewhere here a great story in the making is buried.

Also that's amazing point from the guys about the HH card. Totally missed that, so I'm not so old

 

If we go by his heresy card art, he may also have fought in the webway. And of course there are World Eaters attacking the Custodians in Master of Mankind. So the World Eaters not only learned how to get in the webway from the Word Bearers, they also seem to have been taught the Gal Vorbak process. I wonder how the Word Bearers billed it? And if Angron being a daemon made some accept the Eightfold Path more readily? Delvarus seemed to me like the type of warrior who would prefer to be stronger, heedless of the cost, so I could see him being first in line for an "upgrade."

 

 

@HeritorA: the character in question is such a bit part it barely matters. Also, no idea how you get "would be the least likely person to be possessed" from his prior appearances. There are literally reams of other characters less likely to become possessed. Discounting all loyalists, pretty much any Night Lord or Iron Warrior that maintains the usual distrust for daemons and gods. The Exalted and others like him excluded, of course. In fact, I think it makes a bit of sense. The character in question is a prideful, hubristic warrior with exceptional skill in personal combat. But once he meets others who can best him, either through skill (Sigismund) or through ye olde hax (psykers or other possessed) he might start worrying about how he can maintain his edge. And so he stoops to the greatest PEDs ever invented: daemons.

 

Yeah, this. Very prideful.

 

There's another bit to Delvarus, and that's specifically that he has been humbled by a human before. Khayon suspects that Delvarus goes and murders tons of the human crew of the Vengeful Spirit while he's defending it, too. Now that could be the daemon, it could be the nails, it could be the raw influence of the Blood God in the Eye. But maybe he still resents "basic" humanity for the times it injured his pride. Maybe all of the above?

 

For a bit character with only a little bit written about him in this book, there's a surprising amount of fun little blanks we can fill in between Betrayer and now.

 

 

 

I wonder if it's still got much of the Cybernetica army Khayon assembled. They'd look so classy in black and gold.

 

 

Yeah, they're still around. They're part of the Vengeful Spirit defense force along with Delvarus's Riven.

[Nazguire]

In regards to the Eternal Crusader, I was always under the impression it began life as a standard battle barge that had been refitted and built upon over the millennia until it was this colossal beast of a ship.

 

Makes sense that it is a Gloriana, but takes away some of the cool factor tbh.  Assuming that the Imperial Fists Gloriana was gifted to Sigismund and the Black Templars and that became the Eternal Crusader.

 

Suppose it still has the capacity to be modified over the millennia at any rate.

[Marshal Loss]

After a week of waiting, and an entire afternoon spent ignoring my responsibilities, I can finally click on this thread again!

 

What a book. Oh my god. I can't wait to re-read this when my limited edition arrives. I got so many things I never knew I wanted from the Black Legion. The wait was worth it.

[Sete]

Ah!the Ophidium Gulf. ADB you cheeky bastard.
Finished the book.
My thoughts on this will be mine alone.

[helterskelter]

If anyone still wants one there's still a ton of Ltd Eds left. The ad said under a thousand so we'll say 999 :p