Skerr Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I would. The daemons make a great ally and adds mkre strategems. I def will be adding daemons to my sons. Its how I played them when i started, and i will once more. Thank you sir. That is what I was thinking. Might go ahead and get the dex along with a start box and a box of blues and brims.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Before you do that, blues now have a 5+ invul and brimstone have a 6+. Just letting you know if you didn’t already. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Meh on blues and brims. Get it for the pink horrors and the improved flamers, screamers and chariots! Honestly I wish gw would make up there mind on horrors. Saving points on split seems annoying when nurgle has so many aways to add models for free. Considering the smite nerf and save nerf, i dont think it would be unreasonable to have split by default without spending points but with the following: split only happens upon death on a roll of a 4+. Models that run away from morale do not split. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Before you do that, blues now have a 5+ invul and brimstone have a 6+. Just letting you know if you didn’t already. Meh on blues and brims. Get it for the pink horrors and the improved flamers, screamers and chariots! Honestly I wish gw would make up there mind on horrors. Saving points on split seems annoying when nurgle has so many aways to add models for free. Considering the smite nerf and save nerf, i dont think it would be unreasonable to have split by default without spending points but with the following: split only happens upon death on a roll of a 4+. Models that run away from morale do not split. Pink Horrors are great now. Split is also useful now. Pink Horrors now have 18" Assault 2 S: user guns. If there are 30 of them in a squad, they get assault 3 instead. So: Take 30 of them, now they have 90 shots; Get a herald near them, now they have 90 S4 shots; Cast boon of change on them and you have a 1/3 chance of making them S5. But if not, there is a good chance they are T4 now. Get a daemon prince near them (thousand sons daemon prince will work best, as he will also buff our HERETIC ASTARTES units) to give them re-roll 1s to hit. Give them flickering flames psychic power and they will have +1 to wound. Optional: tzeentch warlord trait that gives re-roll 1s to wound. Optional: use a stratagem to deep strike them If done all that, they will murder any chaff/horde unit with 90 S4(5) shots that have re-rolls 1s to hit/wound and +1 to wound. Also next turn you can activate the stratagem to give them +1 invul, this improves the invul of the whole squad (including the models that split). Now you have 3++ pink horrors, 4++ blue horrors and 5++ brimstone horrors. Use the split to keep the pink horror numbers above 20. This will give you 50 wounds of buffer for 160 pts or less (as you can split them one at a time to keep more horrors from dying). this will also distract the opponent from the rest of the infantry in your army :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 I thought it was 20+ for assault 3. Now I would say blues and brimestones are buffers for pinks and there is good synergy Heretic Astartes units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I thought it was 20+ for assault 3. Now I would say blues and brimestones are buffers for pinks and there is good synergy Heretic Astartes units. yes, that's correct, thanks, i meant to write 20+ instead of 30 in the second paragraph. Edited. :) Yeah there is a lot of synergy, especially with stratagems and loci. Shame we can't take obliterators though, as they have a ton of synergy. I know! we need psychic obliterator sorcerers! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Depending on how the codex pans out, ie. maybe Tzaangors get beast or daemon keywords and either Tzeentch or their own discipline, I was looking at Pinks again for a cheap battalion. I think it would be worth it to have 3 units of 10 man Pinks and 150 points in reserve for splitting or Spawn generation. The you'd be able to nearly guarantee 3+ turns for an objective w/ the splitting. Throw in a Herald for buuffing our Daemons and there we go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolchiate Remembrancer Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Before you do that, blues now have a 5+ invul and brimstone have a 6+. Just letting you know if you didn’t already. Meh on blues and brims. Get it for the pink horrors and the improved flamers, screamers and chariots! Honestly I wish gw would make up there mind on horrors. Saving points on split seems annoying when nurgle has so many aways to add models for free. Considering the smite nerf and save nerf, i dont think it would be unreasonable to have split by default without spending points but with the following: split only happens upon death on a roll of a 4+. Models that run away from morale do not split. Pink Horrors are great now. Split is also useful now. Pink Horrors now have 18" Assault 2 S: user guns. If there are 30 of them in a squad, they get assault 3 instead. So: Take 30 of them, now they have 90 shots; Get a herald near them, now they have 90 S4 shots; Cast boon of change on them and you have a 1/3 chance of making them S5. But if not, there is a good chance they are T4 now. Get a daemon prince near them (thousand sons daemon prince will work best, as he will also buff our HERETIC ASTARTES units) to give them re-roll 1s to hit. Give them flickering flames psychic power and they will have +1 to wound. Optional: tzeentch warlord trait that gives re-roll 1s to wound. Optional: use a stratagem to deep strike them If done all that, they will murder any chaff/horde unit with 90 S4(5) shots that have re-rolls 1s to hit/wound and +1 to wound. Also next turn you can activate the stratagem to give them +1 invul, this improves the invul of the whole squad (including the models that split). Now you have 3++ pink horrors, 4++ blue horrors and 5++ brimstone horrors. Use the split to keep the pink horror numbers above 20. This will give you 50 wounds of buffer for 160 pts or less (as you can split them one at a time to keep more horrors from dying). this will also distract the opponent from the rest of the infantry in your army All good but if you take all of that and the appropriate blues and brimstones for split...your talked easily 1000 points to have 1 squad be good? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 Then take a patrol no extra CP, but it will get you the benefits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 On the topic of Goatbird Disco Disk Riders I'd like to make mention that their special rules from AOS directly transfer over. I know someone has mentioned this already but I'd like to add an additional point to this. For those that don't know, on a 6+ to hit they cause d3 mortal wounds. When a Shaman is within 9" it gains +1 to hit, making this pn a 5+. If we then see a power similar to Prescience we're now at a 4+. 3 minimum per unit with 2 attacks on their bow means on average 3d3 mortal wounds per minimum unit at 24". This is incredibly potent on such a fast moving platform. This isn't even getting into Strategems yet, or any further potential Psychic powers. If goats get shields that boost invuln to 4++ for no points I'll probably run 2 units of those and 1 with blades for counter charge. If it's a 6+++ for points I'll probably forgo it, unless we get some kind of +++ option that compounds. Gimme some leaks GW! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Before you do that, blues now have a 5+ invul and brimstone have a 6+. Just letting you know if you didn’t already. Meh on blues and brims. Get it for the pink horrors and the improved flamers, screamers and chariots! Honestly I wish gw would make up there mind on horrors. Saving points on split seems annoying when nurgle has so many aways to add models for free. Considering the smite nerf and save nerf, i dont think it would be unreasonable to have split by default without spending points but with the following: split only happens upon death on a roll of a 4+. Models that run away from morale do not split. Pink Horrors are great now. Split is also useful now. Pink Horrors now have 18" Assault 2 S: user guns. If there are 30 of them in a squad, they get assault 3 instead. So: Take 30 of them, now they have 90 shots; Get a herald near them, now they have 90 S4 shots; Cast boon of change on them and you have a 1/3 chance of making them S5. But if not, there is a good chance they are T4 now. Get a daemon prince near them (thousand sons daemon prince will work best, as he will also buff our HERETIC ASTARTES units) to give them re-roll 1s to hit. Give them flickering flames psychic power and they will have +1 to wound. Optional: tzeentch warlord trait that gives re-roll 1s to wound. Optional: use a stratagem to deep strike them If done all that, they will murder any chaff/horde unit with 90 S4(5) shots that have re-rolls 1s to hit/wound and +1 to wound. Also next turn you can activate the stratagem to give them +1 invul, this improves the invul of the whole squad (including the models that split). Now you have 3++ pink horrors, 4++ blue horrors and 5++ brimstone horrors. Use the split to keep the pink horror numbers above 20. This will give you 50 wounds of buffer for 160 pts or less (as you can split them one at a time to keep more horrors from dying). this will also distract the opponent from the rest of the infantry in your army All good but if you take all of that and the appropriate blues and brimstones for split...your talked easily 1000 points to have 1 squad be good?Not really, I don't need full splitting, so herald+ prince+ horrors+160 for splitting = <550 pts. You also get herald that buffs any of your daemon units and proncebthat buffs any of your thousand sons and daemons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 I am begining to wonder if the Tzaangor Shaman will work more like a Exalted Champion or Dark Apostle for Tzaangor models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 On the topic of Goatbird Disco Disk Riders I'd like to make mention that their special rules from AOS directly transfer over. I know someone has mentioned this already but I'd like to add an additional point to this. For those that don't know, on a 6+ to hit they cause d3 mortal wounds. When a Shaman is within 9" it gains +1 to hit, making this pn a 5+. If we then see a power similar to Prescience we're now at a 4+. 3 minimum per unit with 2 attacks on their bow means on average 3d3 mortal wounds per minimum unit at 24". This is incredibly potent on such a fast moving platform. This isn't even getting into Strategems yet, or any further potential Psychic powers. If goats get shields that boost invuln to 4++ for no points I'll probably run 2 units of those and 1 with blades for counter charge. If it's a 6+++ for points I'll probably forgo it, unless we get some kind of +++ option that compounds. Gimme some leaks GW! Yeah it's really hard to theorise when we don't even what disciplines or unit rules we're getting. I am begining to wonder if the Tzaangor Shaman will work more like a Exalted Champion or Dark Apostle for Tzaangor models. I hope it's like in AOS, where they add +1 to hit instead, as then it wouldn't make Magnus's or daemon prince's rerolling 1s aura redundant for them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Yeah shields are in the artwork. My guess is that they are in. Edit edit edit: Had a chat with someone re: shields. Good chance of it being an option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 One thing I’m reasonably certain about is a points drop for SOT’s. Every other terminator in the game got a points drop from either CA or their respective codex. That would be very welcome... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 One thing I’m reasonably certain about is a points drop for SOT’s. Every other terminator in the game got a points drop from either CA or their respective codex. That would be very welcome... I'm just not super sure what would make them worth taking for me. +1 to wound would help, but I think they need something special for them to be worth it in my lists even with a points drop. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 i mean, if the scarab sorc is the base points of the rubric terminators that would save a few pts considering i run 3 units of the suckers. Whether or not that is "worth it" depends on your meta/who you fight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Scarabs and Rubrics both need price drops. Brims are still not terrible, for 90 points you get 30 wounds w 6++ in 3 units that fill outs a Force Org for 3 CP, and can hold objectives, and still deny and prevent alpha strikes/bubble wrap Also a cheap way to get a Daemon Attachment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 just adjust rubrics the way CSM did it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Just make the SOTs cheaper and give them a 4++. Also, let their Sorcerer cast a real power/smite instead of that pitiful single mortal wound he might do. And if they got a special rule of their own (Blight Lord Terminators got their "Aura of Rust" ability on top of Disgustingly Resilient so it wouldn't surprise me if the SOTs got something on top of their "All is dust"). Maybe something to help them survive a bit better like a -1 to hit them on the turn they arrive on the battlefield. "In lightning clad their rend the veil"...! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yergerjo Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 For a demon attachment Im thinking a Vanguard detachment with 2-3 EX Flamers and 1-0 Flamers to be Deep Struck...with a Herald to farm the reroll. Sure it's only 1 CP but those Ex flamers could really help our traditional Anti Tank deficiency. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Scarabs and Rubrics both need price drops. Brims are still not terrible, for 90 points you get 30 wounds w 6++ in 3 units that fill outs a Force Org for 3 CP, and can hold objectives, and still deny and prevent alpha strikes/bubble wrap Also a cheap way to get a Daemon Attachment. Do they though? The Scarabs do by a small margin, but the Rubrics seem *almost* right. I personally think they should be 17ppm WITH the bolter. though 18 would also be about perfect. bringing them right in line with Plague marines. for a different toolset, but just as survivable. (MW not withstanding) Scarabs definitely need a drop but the sorcerer is the main drag on the unit. 40 ppm for a power sword and Inferno combi bolter is not a bad price to pay. Sadly the "all is dust" premium is wasted. I would say....36-38 PPM with gear for a Scarab Occult is about right. 2 wounds, but the "all is dust" is a wasted rule on SOT because very few people fire D1 weaponry at terminators so a list is either "saturate" with 20+ or take 0-5 SOT Max. Hopefully the sorcerer comes down and the termies come down a couple points each or something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I think Scarabs are fine at 5++ with All is Dust but thats just me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolchiate Remembrancer Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I think Scarabs are fine at 5++ with All is Dust but thats just me. Dont get much D2 -2AP weapon spam aimed at yours? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 My hope for a legion tactic would be a save against mortal wounds, and aspiring sorcerers in a thousand son detachment can choose a power (or two if its a Scarab) from a table similar to warlocks. So basically a power that either buffs infantry, or debuffs their stuff. Really want Rubrics to be what people build around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/21/#findComment-4979712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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