hhhdan Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Yeah, so the average output on a single dice is a sum of all values divided by the number of values. In this case (1+2+3)/2 = 2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000 Sons Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Damn your numerical sorcery. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Damn your numerical sorcery Mathhammer for the mathhammer god! Calculators for the Calculator throne! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Captain mathhammer reporting for duty!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivanmukta Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I believe numbermancy is called the Order of Ruin for us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thousand Sons Sorcerer Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 From Dakka Skyfires are 2W. 2 S5 -1 1 dmg guns. BS/WS3 5++ Shaman gives them +1 to hit. 51 points with greatbow FOR 3. They have 3 options: Chainsword & Bolt Pistol (?) Great Bow and a spear, i forgot exact stats but it does 2 dmg on charge. Disc do 1 attack , S4 0 1 Sergeant does 3 A, each Tzaangor 2A. So a unit of 3 does 10A. Magnus went up by 30 points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 I don't know why you would run chainsword and autopistols on the enlightened. Maybe you want them to be underwhelming? Unless Magnus has some serious buffs we don't know about these needs may just take him off the battlefield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Assuming the Skyfires are T5 as well; This is a fantstic unit. Incredible ranged-threat along with easy access buffs for great ranged harassment, STR 5 shots even with just -1 ap but that "auto wound" mechanic on an assault 2 gun Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thousand Sons Sorcerer Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 yeah 12 cost 204 points with Shaman or Prescience they will be auto-wounding on 5+ which means, about 12 wounds on anything T 6-9 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Yeah, so the average output on a single dice is a sum of all values divided by the number of values. In this case (1+2+3)/2 = 2. Or just lowest number + highest number divided by 2. So (1+3)/2 = 2. yeah 12 cost 204 points with Shaman or Prescience they will be auto-wounding on 5+ which means, about 12 wounds on anything T 6-9 In case the auto wound really happens on a 6+ and not on flat 6s. However that would also mean that negative to-hit modifier would affect it which would make them much worse. The spear sounds kinda interesting as well imo. If it's S4 AP-2 or S5 AP-1 or something along those lines I could also imagine them as quick melee harasser unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Yeah, so the average output on a single dice is a sum of all values divided by the number of values. In this case (1+2+3)/2 = 2. Or just lowest number + highest number divided by 2. So (1+3)/2 = 2. yeah 12 cost 204 points with Shaman or Prescience they will be auto-wounding on 5+ which means, about 12 wounds on anything T 6-9 In case the auto wound really happens on a 6+ and not on flat 6s. However that would also mean that negative to-hit modifier would affect it which would make them much worse. The spear sounds kinda interesting as well imo. If it's S4 AP-2 or S5 AP-1 or something along those lines I could also imagine them as quick melee harasser unit. I don't think that it would make them worse at all, assuming that you have a shaman with them. If the auto wounding thing would happen only on 6s, you would have twice the chance against something with no negative modifier and the same chance against -1 modifier, a worse chance against anything with -2 or more. But except for Alaitoc hemlocks and wave serpents, not a lot of things get -2 to hit. So in most cases you either have the same effect or are better off Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Without more info i cant see why id ever give the disc guys Prescience or even a Shaman. It seems like a unit that is so cheap any more pts invested in making it better are wasted in the shadow of Rubrics teleporting around etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Yeah, so the average output on a single dice is a sum of all values divided by the number of values. In this case (1+2+3)/2 = 2. Or just lowest number + highest number divided by 2. So (1+3)/2 = 2. yeah 12 cost 204 points with Shaman or Prescience they will be auto-wounding on 5+ which means, about 12 wounds on anything T 6-9 In case the auto wound really happens on a 6+ and not on flat 6s. However that would also mean that negative to-hit modifier would affect it which would make them much worse. The spear sounds kinda interesting as well imo. If it's S4 AP-2 or S5 AP-1 or something along those lines I could also imagine them as quick melee harasser unit. I don't think that it would make them worse at all, assuming that you have a shaman with them. If the auto wounding thing would happen only on 6s, you would have twice the chance against something with no negative modifier and the same chance against -1 modifier, a worse chance against anything with -2 or more. But except for Alaitoc hemlocks and wave serpents, not a lot of things get -2 to hit. So in most cases you either have the same effect or are better off Worse chance equaling impossible here tho. And considering how often we're facing negative hit modifier it kinda forces you to include a shaman just to be save.If you really want to use the auto wound that is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 Without more info i cant see why id ever give the disc guys Prescience or even a Shaman. It seems like a unit that is so cheap any more pts invested in making it better are wasted in the shadow of Rubrics teleporting around etc. They skyfires certainly seem to be a glass cannon. With 51 points for 3 isnt terrible though. Plus it seems to go off on a six plus according to the leaker on DakkaDakka. So with a Shaman and prescience that's hitting on 2s and auto wounds on a 4+ add a demonprince and you are re-rolling ones. I think its interesting for an army with garbage transports made of dust automatons to have so much potential to be in your face so quickly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Without more info i cant see why id ever give the disc guys Prescience or even a Shaman. It seems like a unit that is so cheap any more pts invested in making it better are wasted in the shadow of Rubrics teleporting around etc. it depends on what the shaman gets of course. But as a supporting caster he might be very useful. Also filling a brigade might not be as taxing as previously thought.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arachnofiend Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 The problem with a brigade is that you probably want max size squads for synergy purposes; you want a big, expensive blob of tzaangors/rubrics to drop from deep strike, you want a big, expensive blob of skyfires to stack the shaman buff and prescience on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 The problem with a brigade is that you probably want max size squads for synergy purposes; you want a big, expensive blob of tzaangors/rubrics to drop from deep strike, you want a big, expensive blob of skyfires to stack the shaman buff and prescience on. Honestly, if i wanted to drop tzaangors to charge i would just take bloodletters, they are the same cost and do much more damage with a way more realiable charge... Rubrics i'm not sure about, as if they stay the same as in CSM dex, you might want to bring min squads of them to get more sorcerers or 9-10 man squads in rhinos (or 2x5) along with mutalith to make them a pain to remove. What you really want a big blob of is pink horrors and bloodletters, as they just don't work otherwise. With thousand sons i can see them being useful in smaller squads. As Archeinox pointed out, you might want smaller squads of bowlightened as a harassing distraction unit instead of a damage dealer unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varyn Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 definitely planning on converting some rubrics on discs for my "skyfires" :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 So since we got 3 Psychic Disciplines (Dark Hereticus, Tzeentch Daemon Discipline and Thousand Sons Discipline) we actually have enough spells to take a 2K army and give all Sorcerers a unique spell. The question is which will be our bread-and-butter spells that we take every game and whom to give them to. I propose the following: 1. Gaze of Fate (Aspiring Sorcerer) 2. Prescience (Tzaangor Shaman) 3. Weaver of Fate (Ahriman) 4. Warptime (Ahriman) I expect these four spells to be taken in EVERY Thousand Sons list. Gaze is just awesome, giving us a free re-roll every turn will help save CP! Prescience on the Shaman seems like a given, since I assume that if you take him you are taking the Discgores, which means he'll be riding behind them, giving them his buff and casting the spell on them for those 4+ auto-wounds. Otherwise give it to Ahriman since it has a fairly high WC and he can get it off the most reliable. Weaver of Fate. Good on everything and since it is so good/vital you want it to go off reliably. Thus Ahriman. Warptime + Tzaangors w/ Instrument = Turn 1 charge. So Ahriman again. A nice combo will also be Daemon Prince w/ Diabolic Strength and a dmg spell/Smite. He can wreck face and soften up his target beforehand. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I’m a big fan of having my DP is diabolic strength and slingshotting him into combat with warptime. Him having two psychic powers (and/or the 9” warptime) means that he now doesn’t need to be glued to Ahriman until the slingshot happens!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I actually feel that gaze should be on a daemon prince and not on the aspiring, as you really want to save that re-roll for the aspiring sorcerers, in case they peril, so that they don't kill half a unit with them. Aspiring sorcerers should probably have other WC5-6 spells that are not too critical, but not too hard to cast. Ahriman (Magnus) should have the hardest to cast spells and the most critical ones. I could actually see shaman having a similar role (ish), as he has that once per game re-roll which will make him a bit more reliable.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4989908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Faction Focus is up. Not a lot of new information, but some interesting tidbits. It almost doesn't sound like there is a second part to our legion trait though, which has me concerned/annoyed if true. As an aside, love the 1CP for a Spawn Strategem. Any character on his way out transforms? Sweet. The other Strategem to pick your mutations on Spawn is also cool. Mutalith Spawn lists a thing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4990069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar K. Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I think the Webway Strat is pretty awesome.Link: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/22/faction-focus-the-thousand-sonsgw-homepage-post-2/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4990080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalan Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Too bad it doesnt work on Magnus :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4990104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomWolf Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I don't know why you would run chainsword and autopistols on the enlightened. Maybe you want them to be underwhelming? Unless Magnus has some serious buffs we don't know about these needs may just take him off the battlefield. Possibly a budget option in comparison to the bows, if we assume a large portion of the price is the bow itself and not the model. So since we got 3 Psychic Disciplines (Dark Hereticus, Tzeentch Daemon Discipline and Thousand Sons Discipline) we actually have enough spells to take a 2K army and give all Sorcerers a unique spell. The question is which will be our bread-and-butter spells that we take every game and whom to give them to. I propose the following: 1. Gaze of Fate (Aspiring Sorcerer) 2. Prescience (Tzaangor Shaman) 3. Weaver of Fate (Ahriman) 4. Warptime (Ahriman) I expect these four spells to be taken in EVERY Thousand Sons list. Gaze is just awesome, giving us a free re-roll every turn will help save CP! Prescience on the Shaman seems like a given, since I assume that if you take him you are taking the Discgores, which means he'll be riding behind them, giving them his buff and casting the spell on them for those 4+ auto-wounds. Otherwise give it to Ahriman since it has a fairly high WC and he can get it off the most reliable. Weaver of Fate. Good on everything and since it is so good/vital you want it to go off reliably. Thus Ahriman. Warptime + Tzaangors w/ Instrument = Turn 1 charge. So Ahriman again. A nice combo will also be Daemon Prince w/ Diabolic Strength and a dmg spell/Smite. He can wreck face and soften up his target beforehand. Do refer to Gaze of Fate as Fate rather than Gaze. Otherwise you might mix up with Infernal Gaze-and we got both available. Wait...Weaver of Fate is a thing. But if we call Infernal Gaze as Infernal, it would mix with Infernal Gateway. I guess we'll stick to full spell names to avoid confusion x_x As for this spell selection-I'm really not sure. We may have reached a critical mass of targeted MW spells where its simply better to just stack them up for eliminating opposing support characters. Just imagine the terror of disk ahriman toting 3 targeted MW spells with the extra 6" range. its a case of "if you are anywhere remotely accessible, you are dead" I'm not sure we even need Warptime any more if we don't use Magnus either-a list that just does not charge is possible for us. (well, I guess a full flamer squad would also want it.) As for Weaver of Fate-I would not bother with it if we don't have a centerpiece like Magnus or a deathstar (10 scarab squad) in the mix. its just makes a single target hard to kill, but the enemy will simply focus his attention elsewhere. setting up single-unit defenses in advance isn't impressive, the reason the stratagems work well is because you use them after the enemy is committed. Also, an important note that might make a huge difference we do not know yet-does every unit have acess to every spell list to begin with? And even if so, can you freely mix and match, or are there limits? These two questions matter a LOT. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/33/#findComment-4990136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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