Devastation of Baal - Guy Haley - Discussion/Spoilers

[Alexarius]

 Guilliman tel's Dante that he no longer needs to pose as Sanguinius and he can put aside his weariness.

 

 

I am sorry - can anyone elaborate? Why the Flying F....ailbaddon he is talking to our glorius chapter master to turn down the memory about our Primarch?

[Pavement Artist]

I'm going to attempt to dispel some worries. Firstly, let's consider the new state of background in both core GW systems. We have been used to decades of fluff in stasis, keeping both settings in a particular holding pattern, with new editions of army books simply reiterating the status quo, or mining the past for "new" lore.

 

Now we are seeing a constant changing narrative, evolving over every codex, campaign supplement, BL novel. It would be foolish to assume that the revelations about the BA in this novel are going to dictate the entire state of the chapter going forward. This is simply the beginning.

 

I am putting a fiver down right now.

 

The flaw isn't apparent FOR THE MOMENT.

 

It's going to come back. 

[roodie]

 Guilliman tel's Dante that he no longer needs to pose as Sanguinius and he can put aside his weariness.

 

 

I am sorry - can anyone elaborate? Why the Flying F....ailbaddon he is talking to our glorius chapter master to turn down the memory about our Primarch?

 

RG is just saying that Dante doesn't need to be THE Imperial Hero anymore, he is there to take that burden, he can be himself, not the avatar of Sanguinius. It's not as bad as it sounds :-)

[Guest]

Guilliman tel's Dante that he no longer needs to pose as Sanguinius and he can put aside his weariness.

 

 

I am sorry - can anyone elaborate? Why the Flying F....ailbaddon he is talking to our glorius chapter master to turn down the memory about our Primarch?

Okay this may be the only time I defend RG so I better make this good.

 

Dante in "Dante" novel reveals he does not remove the mask in public because he believes it gives the BAs and mortals a sense of hope in a desperate time. He also says how it wears heavily on him and it has weighed him down for a long time.

 

I believe this was RG way of telling him that the worst is behind them (or that is what RG thinks, chaos always comes through) and that the future is no longer dark and there is hope. That he can rest his old body and finally be himself as he no longer has to be portray the only symbol of hope.

 

I don't think he was saying he has to physically remove the mask, but more of a symbolic gesture.

 

Now no one tell Ishagu about this otherwise I will live in constant regret.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Caldersson

[Panzer]

 Guilliman tel's Dante that he no longer needs to pose as Sanguinius and he can put aside his weariness.

 

 

I am sorry - can anyone elaborate? Why the Flying F....ailbaddon he is talking to our glorius chapter master to turn down the memory about our Primarch?

Well Dante is acting as figure of hope by making Sanguinius face his own. Guilliman simply tells him that he doesn't have to bear that burden anymore now that he's back and took over lead of the IoM. What Dante did only ever worked for other Blood Angels anyway while Guillimans presence works for the whole IoM in general.

[Alexarius]

Just was confused - why an embodiment of Sanguinius could be a burden...thats like a job or tradition=)

[Panzer]

Because you basically are not allowed to fail, appear weak, have doubts, give in to your emotions and so on. It's hard to act like the perfect being for hundreds of years. ^^

[Alexarius]

Isn`t it a job of ANY chapter master?

The leader of demigods, who protect the Imperium like angels of Emperor himself.

 

P.S. I see, i can just have my own vision of this situation=) 

[Panzer]

Not to such a degree, no. ^^

[Blindhamster]

The whole point is that he's been basically carrying the weight and responsibility of being a primarch for all this time, despite not actually being one. He's just an Astartes.

 

 

What Dante did only ever worked for other Blood Angels anyway

 

This isn't entirely true, he is specifically a beacon of hope for the Imperium in general, and one of its most decorated heroes, there is a reason he's put in charge at places like Armageddon. And Sanguinius himself is easily one of the most loved and revered of the primarchs, and it was that image that Dante has been channeling. 

Ultimately, I don't think Guilliman actually gives him a rest based on what happens, he actually tells Dante to strive even harder, giving him more responsibility than we've seen any other marine get so far (He's I suppose a little like one of the tetrarchs in ultramar, but rather than governing a fifth of the worlds there, he is the Imperial commander of the way into the Imperium and all of the Northern Imperium), on top of also being told to make Baal and its moons into a beacon of hope like Ultramar effectively. It's a HUGE order he's been given, which speaks volumes for how impressed Guilliman is with him I guess.

 

 

 

edit...

 

And now he's doing all that as Dante, not as Sanguinius personified. I actually hope it means we see Dantes rules be a bit different, I could easily see him giving bonuses to all IMPERIUM stuff and additional bonuses to BLOOD ANGELS stuff in a similar manner to Guilliman based on this plot development.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Blindhamster

[Alexarius]

Not to such a degree, no. ^^

 

Mkay...so thats just my complex from Deathwatch-rpg, where i became a watch-master =)

And went heavy on duities=3

 

I am sorry guys...it became a lot of info on 8 pages...but can someone answer me? Are Blood Angels primaris-marines from this book look like a Codex ones? I mean buffed up tactician with bigger bolter...or got some choppy action-time with chainswords (not due The Red Thirst. but just throuh sheer tactics)?

Just pre-codex wet dreams.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Alexarius

[Blindhamster]

even as a watch master heavy on duties, it doesn't remotely compare to carrying the burden of being looked up to by the imperium as a whole, that level of responsibility goes far beyond a watch master or chapter master. Which is the point.

[Panzer]

The whole point is that he's been basically carrying the weight and responsibility of being a primarch for all this time, despite not actually being one. He's just an Astartes.

 

 

What Dante did only ever worked for other Blood Angels anyway

 

This isn't entirely true, he is specifically a beacon of hope for the Imperium in general, and one of its most decorated heroes, there is a reason he's put in charge at places like Armageddon. And Sanguinius himself is easily one of the most loved and revered of the primarchs, and it was that image that Dante has been channeling. 

 

Ultimately, I don't think Guilliman actually gives him a rest based on what happens, he actually tells Dante to strive even harder, giving him more responsibility than we've seen any other marine get so far (He's I suppose a little like one of the tetrarchs in ultramar, but rather than governing a fifth of the worlds there, he is the Imperial commander of the way into the Imperium and all of the Northern Imperium), on top of also being told to make Baal and its moons into a beacon of hope like Ultramar effectively. It's a HUGE order he's been given, which speaks volumes for how impressed Guilliman is with him I guess.

 

 

 

edit...

 

And now he's doing all that as Dante, not as Sanguinius personified. I actually hope it means we see Dantes rules be a bit different, I could easily see him giving bonuses to all IMPERIUM stuff and additional bonuses to BLOOD ANGELS stuff in a similar manner to Guilliman based on this plot development.

Agreed. It's not that Dante can now retire or anything like that, he just now has to do all the stuff he did before and even more while being himself instead of acting like a Primarch. Whether that's actually easier or not is debateable. ^^

 

And yeah I didn't phrase what you quoted correctly I fear, my bad. :P

[Guest]

 

Not to such a degree, no. ^^

 

I am sorry guys...it became a lot of info on 8 pages...but can someone answer me? Are Blood Angels primaris-marines from this book look like a Codex ones? I mean buffed up tactician with bigger bolter...or got some choppy action-time with chainswords (not due The Red Thirst. but just throuh sheer tactics)?

Just pre-codex wet dreams.

So far it looks like the vanilla Primaris only, no flaws and no special gear. Edited November 21, 2017 by Caldersson

[deathspectersgt7]

Ordered the book since i like turning pages. I had a thought What a primaris Angel Sanguine would think up[n meeting his new family. Was this addressed ? or it may to early to know maybe in another Book.

Edited November 21, 2017 by deathspectersgt7

[Blindhamster]

interesting thing, Seth thinks most chapters of the blood are unworthy to carry it, not just the primaris. Basically any chapter that doesn't embrace the thirst. (for example the blood angels)

[Panzer]

interesting thing, Seth thinks most chapters of the blood are unworthy to carry it, not just the primaris. Basically any chapter that doesn't embrace the thirst. (for example the blood angels)

To be honest, Seth is a real :cuss -hole anyway. Only the fact that he and his chapter are so successfull makes them so accepted among the other chapters. :D

[Bremon]

Seth is a Khorne Berzerker waiting to happen. Who cares what he thinks; he’s part of the old boys club trying to keep membership exclusive. Progress marches on, mini marines will be replaced and Seth is an old man yelling at clouds. It’s only a matter of time before his army is made up of sons of Guilliman with sawblades on their shoulder. Flaw free, just like Roboute.

[Sete]

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[Captain_Krash]

Seth really isn't that bad...he's blood thirsty yes. But his opinion and words do hold merit to the Blood Angel situation, he has a right to be displeased with Primaris marines. Seth is very much like most of us on the opinion on Primaris marines. And that alone makes him very easy to relate too.

 

Krash

Edited November 21, 2017 by Captain_Krash

[Panzer]

Seth really isn't that bad...he's blood thirsty yes. But his opinion and words do hold merit to the Blood Angel situation, he has a right to be displeased with Primaris marines. Seth is very much like most of us on the opinion on Primaris marines. And that alone makes him very easy to relate too.

 

Krash

Please don't say stuff like "most of us". You don't know how most of us think. There are plenty who don't mind Primaris, they just don't talk about it all the time unlike the ones who don't like Primaris. ;)

[Blindhamster]

You're missing the point.

 

He is as disdainful of most of the blood angel successors (implied also the blood angels themselves) considering them weak and unworthy of the blood as they don't embrace the flaw.

 

I.e. his viewpoint on the primaris make far more sense because they are basically even worse than the current situation, rather than not embracing the flaw, they simply do not have it (yet)

[Captain_Krash]

Understood

 

Krash

Edited November 21, 2017 by Captain_Krash

[Blindhamster]

I actually like Seth, he's interesting in that usually he has been portrayed as far more level headed than moat flesh tearers, and it's him that's got them to control their rage so they don't go the way of the knights of blood.

 

He is the first bit I'm not too happy with in the book, he comes across as far more angry and aggressive than normal.

 

On the primaris front, my personal hope is that the benefits if the red thirst remain, but the actual need to drink blood is diminished or gone. But that the black rate resurfaces.

[sockwithaticket]

You're missing the point.

 

He is as disdainful of most of the blood angel successors (implied also the blood angels themselves) considering them weak and unworthy of the blood as they don't embrace the flaw.

 

I.e. his viewpoint on the primaris make far more sense because they are basically even worse than the current situation, rather than not embracing the flaw, they simply do not have it (yet)

Is there a novel/fluff source for that or your extrapolation from his spoiled comments in DoB?

 

I haven't read even a fraction of the Black Library material because there's simply too much of it for me to keep pace with, monetarily and time-wise.

 

From the limited stuff I have read or read summaries of on wiki/lexicanum I would expect Seth to be disdainful of the absence of the Thirst rather than not embracing it. He's come across as recognising that embracing is necessary for his lot, but wouldn't expect the same of all Sanguinius' Sons.